From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Thomas Gleixner Subject: Re: suspend blockers & Android integration Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:36:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: References: <20100603193045.GA7188@elte.hu> <20100603232302.GA16184@elte.hu> <1275644619.27810.39462.camel@twins> <201006050138.30859.rjw@sisk.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-339667858-1275819785=:2933" Return-path: In-Reply-To: Content-ID: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: linux-pm-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Errors-To: linux-pm-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arve_Hj=F8nnev=E5g?= Cc: tytso@mit.edu, Florian Mickler , Peter Zijlstra , Brian Swetland , "H. Peter Anvin" , LKML , Neil Brown , James Bottomley , Linux PM , Ingo Molnar , Linux OMAP Mailing List , Linus Torvalds , Felipe Balbi , Alan Cox , Arjan van de Ven List-Id: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-339667858-1275819785=:2933 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-15 Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp1.linux-foundation.org id o56Aap05004420 On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arve Hj=F8nnev=E5g wrote: > 2010/6/5 Thomas Gleixner : > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arve Hj=F8nnev=E5g wrote: > >> 2010/6/5 Thomas Gleixner : > >> > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Arve Hj=F8nnev=E5g wrote: > >> >> >> > That download might take a minute or two, but that's not an > >> >> >> > justification for the crapplication to run unconfined and pr= event > >> >> >> > lower power states. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I agree, but this is not a simple problem to solve. > >> >> > > >> >> > Not with suspend blockers, but with cgroup confinement of crap,= it's > >> >> > straight forward. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> I don't think is is straight forward. If the a process in the fro= zen > >> >> group holds a resource that a process in the unfrozen group needs= , how > >> >> do deal with that? > >> > > >> > I'm going to fix the framework which puts the group into freeze st= ate > >> > w/o making sure that there is no held shared resource. Come on it'= s > >> > not rocket science. > >> > > >> > >> I'm not sure which framework you are talking about here, but I don't > >> think there is a single framework that knows about all shared > >> resources. > > > > Damn, it's not me talking about "our framework", you are mentioning > > when it fits your needs. >=20 > You said you were going to fix the framework. I did know if you were > talking about the cgroup framework, or the android user-space > frameworks. I don't think either has knowledge about all shared > resources. The cgroup freezer makes sure that there are no in kernel resources blocked. Of course the user space side has to do the same and it's not rocket science. =20 > > > > If you do not have a clearly defined user space framework, then we > > talk about a completely random conglomeration of applications which > > need to be brought into submission by some global brute force > > approach. > > > > I'm tired of this, really. You just use terminlology as it fits to > > defend the complete design failure of android. But you fail to trick > > me :) > > > > Can you please explain in a consistent way how the application stack > > and the underlying framework (which exists according to android docs) > > is handling events and how the separation of trust level works ? > > >=20 > I don't think I can, since I only know small parts of it. I know some Sigh. That's the main reason why this discussion goes nowhere. How in heavens sake can we make a decision whether suspend blockers are the right and only way to go, when the people=20 > events like input event go though a single thread in our system > process, while other events like network packets (which are also > wakeup events) goes directly to the app. --8323328-339667858-1275819785=:2933 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --8323328-339667858-1275819785=:2933--