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From: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
To: Alexey Kardashevskiy <aik@amd.com>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	<linux-coco@lists.linux.dev>, <linux-pci@vger.kernel.org>
Cc: <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>, <lukas@wunner.de>,
	<aneesh.kumar@kernel.org>, <suzuki.poulose@arm.com>,
	<sameo@rivosinc.com>, <jgg@nvidia.com>, <zhiw@nvidia.com>,
	Xu Yilun <yilun.xu@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 13/13] PCI/TSM: Add Guest TSM Support
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2025 15:26:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <683f76a7324e3_1626e100df@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <cc0e125a-a297-4573-a315-89f4f95324c4@amd.com>

Alexey Kardashevskiy wrote:
[..]
> >>> +static int pci_tsm_accept(struct pci_dev *pdev)
> >>> +{
> >>> +	struct pci_tsm_pf0 *tsm = to_pci_tsm_pf0(pdev->tsm);
> >>> +	int rc;
> >>> +
> >>> +	struct mutex *lock __free(tsm_ops_unlock) = tsm_ops_lock(tsm);
> >>
> >> Add an empty line.
> > 
> > I think we, as a community, are still figuring out the coding-style
> > around scope-based cleanup declarations, but I would argue, no empty
> > line required after mid-function variable declarations. Now, in this
> > case it is arguably not "mid-function", but all the other occurrences of
> > tsm_ops_lock() are checking the result on the immediate next line.
> 
> Do not really care as much :)

Hey, what's kernel development without little side-arguments about
whitespace? Will leave it alone for now.

> >>> +	if (!lock)
> >>> +		return -EINTR;
> >>> +
> >>> +	if (tsm->state < PCI_TSM_CONNECT)
> >>> +		return -ENXIO;
> >>> +	if (tsm->state >= PCI_TSM_ACCEPT)
> >>> +		return 0;
> >>> +
> >>> +	/*
> >>> +	 * "Accept" transitions a device to the run state, it is only suitable
> >>> +	 * to make that transition from a known DMA-idle (no active mappings)
> >>> +	 * state.  The "driver detached" state is a coarse way to assert that
> >>> +	 * requirement.
> >>
> >> And then the userspace will modprobe the driver, which will enable BME
> >> and MSE which in turn will render the ERROR state, what is the plan
> >> here?
> > 
> > Right, so the notifier proposal [1] gave me pause because of perceived
> > complexity and my general reluctance to rely on the magic of notifiers
> > when an explicit sequence is easier to read/maintain. The proposal is
> > that drivers switch to TDISP aware setup helpers that understand that
> > BME and MSE were handled at LOCK. Becauase it is not just
> > pci_enable_device() / pci_set_master() awareness that is needed but also
> > pci_disable_device() / pci_clear_master() flows that need consideration
> > for avoiding/handling the TDISP ERROR state.
> > 
> > I.e. support for TDISP-unaware drivers is not a goal.
> 
> So your plan it to modify driver to switch to the secure mode on the
> go? (not arguing, just asking for now)

Effectively, yes. In the non-TDISP case the driver handles the MSE+BME
transition, in the TDISP case the driver also effectively handles the
same as BME+MSE are superseded by the LOCKED state.

So TVM userspace is responsible for marking the device "accepted" and the
driver checks that state before enabling the device (LOCKED -> RUN).

This also allows for kernel debug overrides of the acceptance policy,
because, in the end, the Linux kernel trusts drivers. If the TVM owner
loads a driver that ignores the "accepted" bit, that is the owner's
prerogative. If the TVM owner does not trust a driver there are multiple
knobs under the TVM's control to mitigate that mistrust.

> The alternative is - let TSM do the attestation and acceptance and
> then "modprobe tdispawaredriver tdisp=on" and change the driver to
> assume that BME and MSE are already enabled.

My heartburn with that is that there is an indefinite amount of time
whereby a device is MSE + BME active without any driver to deal with the
consequences. For example, what if the device needs some form of reset /
re-initialization to quiet an engine or silence an interrupt that
immediately starts firing upon the LOCKED -> RUN transition. Userspace
is not in a good position to make judgements about the state of the
device outside of the Interface Report.

> > There are still details to work out like supporting drivers that want to
> > stay loaded over the UNLOCKED->LOCKED->RUN transitions, and whether the
> > "accept" UAPI triggers entry into "RUN" or still requires a driver to
> > perform that.

Yes, I now think entry into "RUN" needs to be a driver triggered event
to maintain parity with the safety of the non-TDISP case.

[..]
> >>> @@ -135,6 +141,8 @@ struct pci_tsm_guest_req_info {
> >>>     * @bind: establish a secure binding with the TVM
> >>>     * @unbind: teardown the secure binding
> >>>     * @guest_req: handle the vendor specific requests from TVM when bound
> >>> + * @accept: TVM-only operation to confirm that system policy allows
> >>> + *	    device to access private memory and be mapped with private mmio.
> >>>     *
> >>>     * @probe and @remove run in pci_tsm_rwsem held for write context. All
> >>>     * other ops run under the @pdev->tsm->lock mutex and pci_tsm_rwsem held
> >>> @@ -150,6 +158,7 @@ struct pci_tsm_ops {
> >>>    	void (*unbind)(struct pci_tdi *tdi);
> >>>    	int (*guest_req)(struct pci_dev *pdev,
> >>>    			 struct pci_tsm_guest_req_info *info);
> >>> +	int (*accept)(struct pci_dev *pdev);
> >>
> >>
> >> When I posted my v1, I got several comments to not put host and guest
> >> callbacks together which makes sense (as only really "connect" and
> >> "status" are shared, and I am not sure I like dual use of "connect")
> >> and so did I in v2 and yet you are pushing for one struct for all?
> > 
> > Frankly, I missed that feedback and was focused on how to simply extend
> > PCI to understand TSM semantics.
> 
> That was literally you (and I think someone else mentioned it too) ;)
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/all/66d7a10a4d621_3975294ac@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch/

Ugh, yes, it seems that joke: "debugging is a murder mystery where you
find out you were the killer the whole time." can also be true for patch
review.

> "Lets not mix HV and VM hooks in the same ops without good reason" and
> I do not see a good reason here yet.
> 
> More to the point, the host and guest have very little in common to
> have one ops struct for both and then deal with questions "do we
> execute the code related to PF0 in the guest", etc.

Now that is a problem independent of the ops unification question. The
'struct pci_tsm_pf0' data-type should not be used for guest devices. I
will rework that to be a separate data-structure, but still keep
'pci_tsm_ops' unified since the signatures are identical.

> My life definitely got easier with 2 separate structures and my split
> to virt/coco/...(tsm-host.c|tsm-guest.c|tsm.c) + pci/tsm.c.

Here is the reason my thinking evolved from that comment. A primary goal
of drivers/pci/tsm.c is to give one "Device Security" lifetime model to
the PCI core. That means TSM driver discovery (host or guest) lights up
TEE I/O capabilities in the PCI topology. That supports "pci_tsm_ops +
mode flag" vs separate registration mechanisms for different ops.

I also am not perceiving the need for guest-specific ops beyond
->accept(), as part of what drove my reaction to that RFC proposal was
the quantity of proposed ops.

So today's "good reason" is the useful programming pattern of "push
complexity from core-to-leaf". Where the low-level TSM driver needs to
be "mode" aware for some operations.

  reply	other threads:[~2025-06-03 22:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 173+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-05-16  5:47 [PATCH v3 00/13] PCI/TSM: Core infrastructure for PCI device security (TDISP) Dan Williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 01/13] coco/tsm: Introduce a core device for TEE Security Managers Dan Williams
2025-06-02 13:18   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-04  0:42     ` Dan Williams
2025-06-04  1:15       ` Dan Williams
2025-06-04 12:15         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-04 12:14       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-06  3:33         ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-06  2:09     ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 02/13] PCI/IDE: Enumerate Selective Stream IDE capabilities Dan Williams
2025-06-17 12:16   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-12 22:31     ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 03/13] PCI/TSM: Authenticate devices via platform TSM Dan Williams
2025-05-21 15:32   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-06-03 19:53     ` Dan Williams
2025-06-04  8:04       ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-06-17 12:51   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-12 22:07     ` dan.j.williams
2025-08-26  1:31   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-08-26 23:54     ` dan.j.williams
2025-08-27  4:44       ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-08-28 19:27         ` dan.j.williams
2025-08-26  3:08   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-08-26 23:58     ` dan.j.williams
2025-08-27  5:06       ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-08-26 10:22   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-08-27  0:15     ` dan.j.williams
2025-08-27  5:02       ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-08-28 19:32         ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 04/13] PCI: Enable host-bridge emulation for PCI_DOMAINS_GENERIC platforms Dan Williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 05/13] PCI: vmd: Switch to pci_bus_find_emul_domain_nr() Dan Williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 06/13] samples/devsec: Introduce a PCI device-security bus + endpoint sample Dan Williams
2025-06-17 13:30   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-13  1:58     ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 07/13] PCI: Add PCIe Device 3 Extended Capability enumeration Dan Williams
2025-06-17 13:36   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 08/13] PCI/IDE: Add IDE establishment helpers Dan Williams
2025-06-17 14:04   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-14 18:25     ` dan.j.williams
2025-07-03  2:59   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 09/13] PCI/IDE: Report available IDE streams Dan Williams
2025-05-18 12:48   ` kernel test robot
2025-06-17 14:16   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-14 20:16     ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 10/13] PCI/TSM: Report active " Dan Williams
2025-06-17 14:21   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-14 20:49     ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 11/13] samples/devsec: Add sample IDE establishment Dan Williams
2025-06-17 14:26   ` Jonathan Cameron
2025-07-14 20:59     ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 12/13] PCI/TSM: support TDI related operations for host TSM driver Dan Williams
2025-05-16  6:52   ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-20  7:17     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-21  9:35       ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-26  5:05         ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-26  7:52           ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-26 15:44             ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-27  1:01               ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-27 11:48                 ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-27 13:06                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-27 14:26                     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-27 14:45                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-28 12:17                         ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-28 16:42                           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-28 16:52                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-29  9:30                               ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-29 13:43                               ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-29 14:09                                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-30  3:00                                   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-30 13:21                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-29 13:49                             ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-29 14:05                               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-29  3:03                   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-29 13:34                     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-29 13:37                       ` [RFC PATCH 1/3] coco: tsm: Add tsm_bind/unbind helpers Aneesh Kumar K.V (Arm)
2025-05-29 13:37                         ` [RFC PATCH 2/3] iommufd/viommu: Add support to associate viommu with kvm instance Aneesh Kumar K.V (Arm)
2025-05-29 14:13                           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-29 13:37                         ` [RFC PATCH 3/3] iommufd/tsm: Add tsm_bind/unbind iommufd ioctls Aneesh Kumar K.V (Arm)
2025-05-29 14:32                           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-30  8:33                             ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-30 18:18                               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-05-31 16:25                           ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-02  4:52                             ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-02 17:17                               ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-04  1:47                                 ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-04  5:02                                   ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-04 12:37                                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-06 15:40                                     ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-06 16:34                                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-09  4:47                                         ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-02 11:08                             ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-06-02 16:25                               ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-02 16:48                                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-03  4:05                                   ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03 12:11                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-04  5:58                                       ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-04 12:36                                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-05  3:05                                           ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-10  7:05                                           ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-10 18:19                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-11  1:26                                               ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-10  4:47                                     ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-10 18:21                                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-12  4:15                                       ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03  5:00                                 ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-06-03 10:50                                   ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03 12:14                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-04  5:31                                       ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-04 12:31                                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-05  3:25                                           ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-05 14:54                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-09  6:10                                               ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-09 16:42                                                 ` Suzuki K Poulose
2025-06-09 18:07                                                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-10  7:31                                         ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-12  5:44                                           ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03 12:18                                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-04  1:06                                     ` Dan Williams
2025-06-04 12:18                                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-02 12:47                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-03  3:47                               ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03 12:08                                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-04  6:39                                   ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-04 12:39                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-05  1:56                                       ` Xu Yilun
2025-07-15 10:29                           ` Xu Yilun
2025-07-15 13:09                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-07-16 15:41                               ` Xu Yilun
2025-07-16 16:31                                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-07-17  8:28                                   ` Xu Yilun
2025-07-17 12:43                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-07-18  9:15                                       ` Xu Yilun
2025-07-18 12:26                                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-07-20  2:37                                           ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-30  2:44                       ` [PATCH v3 12/13] PCI/TSM: support TDI related operations for host TSM driver Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-27 10:25               ` Suzuki K Poulose
2025-06-03 22:47                 ` Dan Williams
2025-06-04  1:35                   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-04  1:52                     ` Dan Williams
2025-06-04  1:54                       ` Dan Williams
2025-06-05 10:56                         ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-07  1:56                           ` Dan Williams
2025-06-11  4:40                             ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-13  3:06                               ` Dan Williams
2025-06-03 22:40             ` Dan Williams
2025-05-19 10:20   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-20 20:12     ` Dan Williams
2025-05-21  9:28       ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-26  8:08         ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-29 14:20           ` Xu Yilun
2025-05-30  2:54             ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-31 15:26               ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-02  4:51                 ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-02 18:51                   ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03 19:12         ` Dan Williams
2025-07-07  7:17     ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-20  5:20   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-20 21:12     ` Dan Williams
2025-05-16  5:47 ` [PATCH v3 13/13] PCI/TSM: Add Guest TSM Support Dan Williams
2025-05-19 10:20   ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-05-20 21:11     ` Dan Williams
2025-05-22  4:07       ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-06-03 22:26         ` Dan Williams [this message]
2025-06-03 22:33           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-06-10  8:31           ` Alexey Kardashevskiy
2025-07-11 23:04             ` dan.j.williams
2025-05-20  9:25   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-20 21:27     ` Dan Williams
2025-05-20 11:00   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2025-05-20 21:31     ` Dan Williams
2025-06-03 19:07       ` Dan Williams
2025-05-21 15:03   ` Xu Yilun
2025-06-03 19:20     ` Dan Williams

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