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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>,
	Dapeng Mi <dapeng1.mi@linux.intel.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@kernel.org>,
	Kan Liang <kan.liang@linux.intel.com>,
	Like Xu <likexu@tencent.com>, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@kernel.org>, Namhyung Kim <namhyung@kernel.org>,
	Ian Rogers <irogers@google.com>,
	Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@intel.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Zhenyu Wang <zhenyuw@linux.intel.com>,
	Zhang Xiong <xiong.y.zhang@intel.com>,
	Lv Zhiyuan <zhiyuan.lv@intel.com>,
	Yang Weijiang <weijiang.yang@intel.com>,
	Dapeng Mi <dapeng1.mi@intel.com>,
	Jim Mattson <jmattson@google.com>,
	David Dunn <daviddunn@google.com>,
	Mingwei Zhang <mizhang@google.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [Patch v4 07/13] perf/x86: Add constraint for guest perf metrics event
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:30:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZRrF38RGllA04R8o@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20231002115718.GB13957@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net>


* Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 03:46:55PM +0000, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> 
> > > I will firmly reject anything that takes the PMU away from the host
> > > entirely through.
> > 
> > Why?  What is so wrong with supporting use cases where the platform owner *wants*
> > to give up host PMU and NMI watchdog functionality?  If disabling host PMU usage
> > were complex, highly invasive, and/or difficult to maintain, then I can understand
> > the pushback.  
> 
> Because it sucks.
> 
> You're forcing people to choose between no host PMU or a slow guest PMU.
> And that's simply not a sane choice for most people -- worse it's not a
> choice based in technical reality.
> 
> It's a choice out of lazyness, disabling host PMU is not a requirement
> for pass-through. 

Not just a choice of laziness, but it will clearly be forced upon users
by external entities:

   "Pass ownership of the PMU to the guest and have no host PMU, or you
    won't have sane guest PMU support at all. If you disagree, please open
    a support ticket, which we'll ignore."

The host OS shouldn't offer facilities that severely limit its own capabilities,
when there's a better solution. We don't give the FPU to apps exclusively either,
it would be insanely stupid for a platform to do that.

Thanks,

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2023-10-02 13:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-09-27  3:31 [Patch v4 00/13] Enable fixed counter 3 and topdown perf metrics for vPMU Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 01/13] KVM: x86/pmu: Add Intel CPUID-hinted TopDown slots event Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 02/13] KVM: x86/pmu: Support PMU fixed counter 3 Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 03/13] perf/core: Add function perf_event_group_leader_check() Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 04/13] perf/core: Add function perf_event_move_group() Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 05/13] perf/core: Add *group_leader for perf_event_create_group_kernel_counters() Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 06/13] perf/x86: Fix typos and inconsistent indents in perf_event header Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 07/13] perf/x86: Add constraint for guest perf metrics event Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27 11:33   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-09-27 17:27     ` Sean Christopherson
2023-09-28  9:24       ` Mi, Dapeng
2023-09-29 11:53       ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-09-29 15:20         ` Ravi Bangoria
2023-10-02 12:29           ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-03  6:36             ` Ravi Bangoria
2023-09-29 15:46         ` Sean Christopherson
2023-09-30  3:29           ` Jim Mattson
2023-10-01  0:31             ` Namhyung Kim
2023-10-02 11:57           ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-02 13:30             ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2023-10-02 15:23               ` David Dunn
2023-10-02 19:02                 ` Mingwei Zhang
2023-10-02 15:56               ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-02 19:50                 ` Liang, Kan
2023-10-02 20:52                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-02 20:40                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-03  0:56                   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-03  8:16                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-03 15:23                       ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-03 18:21                         ` Jim Mattson
2023-10-04 11:32                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-04 11:21                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-04 19:51                           ` Mingwei Zhang
2023-10-04 21:50                             ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-04 22:05                               ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-08 10:04                                 ` Like Xu
2023-10-09 17:03                                   ` Manali Shukla
2023-10-11 14:15                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-17 10:24                                       ` Manali Shukla
2023-10-17 16:58                                         ` Mingwei Zhang
2023-10-18  0:01                                           ` Mingwei Zhang
2023-10-11 14:20                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-10-13 17:02                                 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-03 17:31                       ` Manali Shukla
2023-10-03 22:02                     ` Mingwei Zhang
2023-10-04 20:43                       ` Sean Christopherson
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 08/13] perf/core: Add new function perf_event_topdown_metrics() Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 09/13] perf/x86/intel: Handle KVM virtual metrics event in perf system Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 10/13] KVM: x86/pmu: Extend pmc_reprogram_counter() to create group events Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 11/13] KVM: x86/pmu: Support topdown perf metrics feature Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 12/13] KVM: x86/pmu: Handle PERF_METRICS overflow Dapeng Mi
2023-09-27  3:31 ` [Patch v4 13/13] KVM: x86/pmu: Expose Topdown in MSR_IA32_PERF_CAPABILITIES Dapeng Mi

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