* Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
@ 2025-11-04 3:36 Reka Norman
2025-11-04 9:03 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-04 3:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rafael; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm, christian.loehle
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1288 bytes --]
Hi,
I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
The cases tested are:
cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
| | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
|------------|------:|------:|---------:|
| WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
| cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
| clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
| s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
debugging information I should provide.
Thanks,
Reka
[-- Attachment #2: cpuidle_6_12.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25119 bytes --]
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
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[-- Attachment #3: cpuidle_mainline.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25229 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #4: cpuidle_6_6.txt --]
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state1/time:3199457
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state1/usage:430
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/above:4186
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-m
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/latency:247
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-m
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/rejected:2323703
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/residency:2120
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/time:128325586
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state2/usage:9854
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/time:12382099
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/usage:39820
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/above:117
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/below:160
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/latency:147
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/rejected:300143
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/residency:2580
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/time:1762735
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/usage:279
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/above:5176
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/latency:181
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/rejected:2574098
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/residency:2580
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/time:124313874
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/usage:11859
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpuidle/available_governors:ladder menu teo
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpuidle/current_driver:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpuidle/current_governor:teo
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpuidle/current_governor_ro:teo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-04 3:36 Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12 Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-04 9:03 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-04 23:24 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-04 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman, rafael; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>
> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>
> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>
> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> The cases tested are:
> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>
> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>
> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>
> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> debugging information I should provide.
>
That's not good.
If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
than I would've expected?
I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
Are there ever any latency constraints set?
FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
anyway:
Cluster State above below usage above% below%
LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
(WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
Do you mind trying:
13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
on 6.12?
I'd also be curious what this looks like without the intercept logic:
Something like:
-----8<-----
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -348,71 +348,6 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
goto end;
}
- /*
- * If the sum of the intercepts metric for all of the idle states
- * shallower than the current candidate one (idx) is greater than the
- * sum of the intercepts and hits metrics for the candidate state and
- * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
- * better choice.
- */
- if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
- int first_suitable_idx = idx;
-
- /*
- * Look for the deepest idle state whose target residency had
- * not exceeded the idle duration in over a half of the relevant
- * cases in the past.
- *
- * Take the possible duration limitation present if the tick
- * has been stopped already into account.
- */
- intercept_sum = 0;
-
- for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
- struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
-
- intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
-
- if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
- /*
- * Use the current state unless it is too
- * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
- * first enabled state that is deep enough.
- */
- if (teo_state_ok(i, drv) &&
- !dev->states_usage[i].disable) {
- idx = i;
- break;
- }
- idx = first_suitable_idx;
- break;
- }
-
- if (dev->states_usage[i].disable)
- continue;
-
- if (teo_state_ok(i, drv)) {
- /*
- * The current state is deep enough, but still
- * there may be a better one.
- */
- first_suitable_idx = i;
- continue;
- }
-
- /*
- * The current state is too shallow, so if no suitable
- * states other than the initial candidate have been
- * found, give up (the remaining states to check are
- * shallower still), but otherwise the first suitable
- * state other than the initial candidate may turn out
- * to be preferable.
- */
- if (first_suitable_idx == idx)
- break;
- }
- }
-
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-04 9:03 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-04 23:24 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-05 6:22 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-05 20:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-04 23:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman, rafael; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>
>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>
>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>
>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>> The cases tested are:
>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>
>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>
>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>
>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>> debugging information I should provide.
>>
>
> That's not good.
> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> than I would've expected?
> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>
> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>
> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> anyway:
> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>
> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>
> Do you mind trying:
> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> on 6.12?
>
So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
cause. That's why results with
13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
would be interesting.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-04 23:24 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-05 6:22 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-05 22:47 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-05 20:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-05 6:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: rafael, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4819 bytes --]
On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 10:24 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>
> >> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>
> >> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>
> >> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >> The cases tested are:
> >> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>
> >> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>
> >> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>
> >> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >> debugging information I should provide.
> >>
> >
> > That's not good.
> > If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> > ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> > than I would've expected?
Sorry, I just realised those dumps were taken at the login screen,
which is doing some animation. The new data is all from the home
screen, which should be more idle. I also attached before and after
dumps to eliminate boot activity. Now it’s more like 2% WFI at 6.6.
> > I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> > obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >
> > I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> > 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> > seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> > I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> > helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
Traces attached.
> > Are there ever any latency constraints set?
Could you explain how I can tell? (I can’t see anything in our
codebase obviously setting cpu_dma_latency or
pm_qos_resume_latency_us, but I’m guessing that’s not conclusive.)
> >
> > FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> > anyway:
> > Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> > LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> > LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> > MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> > MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> > BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> > BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >
> > (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> > savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >
> > Do you mind trying:
> > 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> > on 6.12?
> >
>
> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> cause. That's why results with
> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> would be interesting.
I'm not completely sure whether I resolved the conflicts correctly. So
if anything seems off about the results, would you mind sharing a
ported patch I can try?
I've attached sysfs dumps and traces for 6.6, 6.12 and mainline as
before (which should be more idle this time), as well as:
6_12_patch = 6.12 with 13ed5c4a6d9c “cpuidle: teo: Skip
getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent”
6_12_no_intercept = 6.12 with intercept logic removed
mainline_no_intercept = mainline with intercept logic removed
[-- Attachment #2: sysfs_6_6_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25109 bytes --]
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/time:48831665
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/usage:195440
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/above:27434
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/below:29908
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/rejected:710816
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/time:542616610
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/usage:58064
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/above:16058
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/latency:434
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/power:0
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[-- Attachment #3: sysfs_6_6_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25110 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #4: sysfs_6_12_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24882 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #5: sysfs_6_12_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24882 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #6: sysfs_6_12_no_intercept_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24934 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #7: sysfs_6_12_no_intercept_before.txt --]
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[-- Attachment #8: sysfs_6_12_patch_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25031 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #9: sysfs_6_12_patch_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25023 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #10: sysfs_mainline_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25014 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #11: sysfs_mainline_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25002 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #12: sysfs_mainline_no_intercept_after.txt --]
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[-- Attachment #13: sysfs_mainline_no_intercept_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24936 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #14: trace_6_6.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1108760 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #15: trace_6_12.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 2942943 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #16: trace_6_12_no_intercept.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 963254 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #17: trace_6_12_patch.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1044194 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #18: trace_mainline.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1535886 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #19: trace_mainline_no_intercept.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1025664 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-04 23:24 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-05 6:22 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-05 20:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-06 11:13 ` Christian Loehle
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-05 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Reka Norman, rafael, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>
> >> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>
> >> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>
> >> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >> The cases tested are:
> >> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>
> >> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>
> >> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>
> >> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >> debugging information I should provide.
> >>
> >
> > That's not good.
> > If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> > ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> > than I would've expected?
> > I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> > obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >
> > I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> > 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> > seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> > I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> > helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> > Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> >
> > FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> > anyway:
> > Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> > LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> > LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> > MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> > MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> > BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> > BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >
> > (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> > savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >
> > Do you mind trying:
> > 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> > on 6.12?
> >
>
> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> cause. That's why results with
> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> would be interesting.
My current theory is that this issue is related to the
tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
distinguished from "hits" in teo.
Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
"intercepts" to appear.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-05 6:22 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-05 22:47 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-06 15:21 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-05 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: rafael, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/5/25 06:22, Reka Norman wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 10:24 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>
>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>
>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>
>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>
>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>
>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's not good.
>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>> than I would've expected?
>
> Sorry, I just realised those dumps were taken at the login screen,
> which is doing some animation. The new data is all from the home
> screen, which should be more idle. I also attached before and after
> dumps to eliminate boot activity. Now it’s more like 2% WFI at 6.6.
>
>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>
>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>
> Traces attached.
>
>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>
> Could you explain how I can tell? (I can’t see anything in our
> codebase obviously setting cpu_dma_latency or
> pm_qos_resume_latency_us, but I’m guessing that’s not conclusive.)
>
>>>
>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>> anyway:
>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>
>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>
>>> Do you mind trying:
>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>> on 6.12?
>>>
>>
>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>> cause. That's why results with
>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>> would be interesting.
>
> I'm not completely sure whether I resolved the conflicts correctly. So
> if anything seems off about the results, would you mind sharing a
> ported patch I can try?
>
> I've attached sysfs dumps and traces for 6.6, 6.12 and mainline as
> before (which should be more idle this time), as well as:
> 6_12_patch = 6.12 with 13ed5c4a6d9c “cpuidle: teo: Skip
> getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent”
> 6_12_no_intercept = 6.12 with intercept logic removed
> mainline_no_intercept = mainline with intercept logic removed
I wanted to send the below out now, I'm not quite done looking through the traces yet, sorry!
The system is running 100HZ tick, 6.12 never seems to turn the tick off. The majority of the wakeups
are just ticks, not 'intercepts' though.
Without the intersect logic everything is fine, teo selects deep idle states very liberally, so we
don't have any weird timer effects (wakeups then are not too common and are the EC SPI irq and
scheduler IPIs, nothing super unexpected).
I'll work through the code and traces again tomorrow with Rafael's notes in mind.
Anyway, here's the more legible deltas of Reka's sysfs dumps for reference:
tail -n 36 sysfs_mainline_delta.txt
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 3,436,031 | 10.56% | 5,017 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 17,909 | 0.06% | 19 | 17 | 89.47% | 2 | 10.53% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 29,096,755 | 89.39% | 430 | 95 | 22.09% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,550,695 | 100.00% | 5,466 | 112 | 2.05% | 2 | 0.04% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 40,105,707 | 31.15% | 50,366 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 5,057,879 | 3.93% | 143 | 43 | 30.07% | 99 | 69.23% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 83,572,753 | 64.92% | 1,485 | 398 | 26.80% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 128,736,339 | 100.00% | 51,994 | 441 | 0.85% | 99 | 0.19% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 8,504,484 | 8.79% | 13,025 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 269,514 | 0.28% | 34 | 26 | 76.47% | 8 | 23.53% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 88,003,266 | 90.93% | 533 | 170 | 31.89% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 96,777,264 | 100.00% | 13,592 | 196 | 1.44% | 8 | 0.06% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
tail -n 36 sysfs_6_12_delta.txt
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 32,360,953 | 100.00% | 34,172 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,360,953 | 100.00% | 34,172 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+---------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+=========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 127,519,860 | 100.00% | 140,096 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 127,519,860 | 100.00% | 140,096 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+---------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+---------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+=========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 96,928,022 | 100.00% | 102,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 96,928,022 | 100.00% | 102,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+---------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
tail -n 36 sysfs_6_6_delta.txt
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 376,034 | 1.17% | 1,368 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 2,679,129 | 8.33% | 82 | 42 | 51.22% | 40 | 48.78% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 29,124,994 | 90.51% | 415 | 99 | 23.86% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,180,157 | 100.00% | 1,865 | 141 | 7.56% | 40 | 2.14% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 3,902,851 | 3.04% | 10,026 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,604,484 | 9.05% | 715 | 383 | 53.57% | 329 | 46.01% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 112,706,855 | 87.91% | 3,479 | 1,454 | 41.79% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 128,214,190 | 100.00% | 14,220 | 1,837 | 12.92% | 329 | 2.31% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 865,879 | 0.90% | 3,683 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 9,721,676 | 10.13% | 168 | 82 | 48.81% | 84 | 50.00% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 85,388,410 | 88.97% | 599 | 223 | 37.23% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 95,975,965 | 100.00% | 4,450 | 305 | 6.85% | 84 | 1.89% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
tail -n 36 sysfs_6_12_no_intercept_delta.txt
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 20,413 | 0.06% | 47 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 32,539,251 | 99.94% | 595 | 400 | 67.23% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,559,664 | 100.00% | 642 | 400 | 62.31% | 0 | 0.00% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 1,646,664 | 1.27% | 1,141 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 127,644,359 | 98.73% | 6,531 | 4,246 | 65.01% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 129,291,023 | 100.00% | 7,672 | 4,246 | 55.34% | 0 | 0.00% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 90,610 | 0.09% | 245 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 97,538,839 | 99.91% | 1,796 | 1,400 | 77.95% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 97,629,449 | 100.00% | 2,041 | 1,400 | 68.59% | 0 | 0.00% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
tail -n 36 sysfs_6_12_patch_delta.txt
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 282,136 | 0.88% | 1,335 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 107,697 | 0.34% | 18 | 17 | 94.44% | 1 | 5.56% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 31,736,205 | 98.79% | 290 | 95 | 32.76% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,126,038 | 100.00% | 1,643 | 112 | 6.82% | 1 | 0.06% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 3,194,027 | 2.47% | 7,873 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 6,906,772 | 5.34% | 373 | 132 | 35.39% | 238 | 63.81% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 119,219,490 | 92.19% | 3,373 | 1,523 | 45.15% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 129,320,289 | 100.00% | 11,619 | 1,655 | 14.24% | 238 | 2.05% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 762,336 | 0.78% | 4,049 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 561,208 | 0.57% | 52 | 49 | 94.23% | 3 | 5.77% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 96,442,021 | 98.65% | 738 | 249 | 33.74% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 97,765,565 | 100.00% | 4,839 | 298 | 6.16% | 3 | 0.06% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-05 20:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-06 11:13 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-06 20:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-06 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>
>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>
>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>
>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>
>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>
>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's not good.
>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>> than I would've expected?
>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>
>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>
>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>> anyway:
>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>
>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>
>>> Do you mind trying:
>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>> on 6.12?
>>>
>>
>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>> cause. That's why results with
>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>> would be interesting.
>
> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>
> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> "intercepts" to appear.
Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
for three reasons:
- wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
- Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
- We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
probably triggers every cpuidle entry. Feels like there should be an issue in the
feedback loop.
Anyway I'll try to reproduce what Reka is seeing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-05 22:47 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-06 15:21 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-06 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Reka Norman, rafael, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 11:47 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/5/25 06:22, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 10:24 AM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>>>
> >>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >>>> The cases tested are:
> >>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>>>
> >>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>>>
> >>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>>>
> >>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >>>> debugging information I should provide.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That's not good.
> >>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> >>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> >>> than I would've expected?
> >
> > Sorry, I just realised those dumps were taken at the login screen,
> > which is doing some animation. The new data is all from the home
> > screen, which should be more idle. I also attached before and after
> > dumps to eliminate boot activity. Now it’s more like 2% WFI at 6.6.
> >
> >>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> >>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >>>
> >>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> >>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> >>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> >>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> >>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> >
> > Traces attached.
> >
> >>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> >
> > Could you explain how I can tell? (I can’t see anything in our
> > codebase obviously setting cpu_dma_latency or
> > pm_qos_resume_latency_us, but I’m guessing that’s not conclusive.)
> >
> >>>
> >>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> >>> anyway:
> >>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> >>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> >>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> >>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> >>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> >>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> >>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >>>
> >>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> >>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >>>
> >>> Do you mind trying:
> >>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> >>> on 6.12?
> >>>
> >>
> >> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> >> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> >> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> >> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> >> cause. That's why results with
> >> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> >> would be interesting.
> >
> > I'm not completely sure whether I resolved the conflicts correctly. So
> > if anything seems off about the results, would you mind sharing a
> > ported patch I can try?
> >
> > I've attached sysfs dumps and traces for 6.6, 6.12 and mainline as
> > before (which should be more idle this time), as well as:
> > 6_12_patch = 6.12 with 13ed5c4a6d9c “cpuidle: teo: Skip
> > getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent”
> > 6_12_no_intercept = 6.12 with intercept logic removed
> > mainline_no_intercept = mainline with intercept logic removed
>
> I wanted to send the below out now, I'm not quite done looking through the traces yet, sorry!
> The system is running 100HZ tick, 6.12 never seems to turn the tick off.
Which is most likely because it always expects an idle duration below
the tick period.
> The majority of the wakeups are just ticks, not 'intercepts' though.
What about scheduler IPIs? How often do they occur?
A tick wakeup is regarded as an "artificial" one (but only if the
sleep length is large enough which is kind of questionable), so it
counts as a "hit" on the idle state corresponding to the sleep length.
However, an IPI in the range of the target residency of a shallower
state would count as an "intercept".
> Without the intersect logic everything is fine, teo selects deep idle states very liberally, so we
"Intercept" I suppose?
> don't have any weird timer effects (wakeups then are not too common and are the EC SPI irq and
> scheduler IPIs, nothing super unexpected).
But in that case idx is always the deepest enabled state and the only
thing that can change this selection is tick_nohz_get_sleep_length().
The statistics are not taken into account at all except for
tick_intercepts.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-06 11:13 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-06 20:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-07 3:28 ` Reka Norman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-06 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>>>
> >>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >>>> The cases tested are:
> >>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>>>
> >>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>>>
> >>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>>>
> >>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >>>> debugging information I should provide.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That's not good.
> >>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> >>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> >>> than I would've expected?
> >>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> >>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >>>
> >>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> >>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> >>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> >>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> >>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> >>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> >>>
> >>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> >>> anyway:
> >>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> >>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> >>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> >>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> >>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> >>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> >>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >>>
> >>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> >>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >>>
> >>> Do you mind trying:
> >>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> >>> on 6.12?
> >>>
> >>
> >> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> >> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> >> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> >> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> >> cause. That's why results with
> >> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> >> would be interesting.
> >
> > My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> > distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> >
> > Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> > counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> > the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> > falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> > time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> > difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> > ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> > tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> > contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> > "intercepts" to appear.
>
> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> for three reasons:
> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>
> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
"hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
only real difference appears to be the presence of
tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
line 426) and see what happens.
> Anyway I'll try to reproduce what Reka is seeing.
That would help too, of course.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-06 20:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-07 3:28 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-07 11:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-07 3:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Christian Loehle, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7197 bytes --]
On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> > > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > >>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> > >>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> > >>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> > >>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> > >>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> > >>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> > >>>> The cases tested are:
> > >>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> > >>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> > >>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> > >>>>
> > >>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> > >>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> > >>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> > >>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> > >>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> > >>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> > >>>> debugging information I should provide.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> That's not good.
> > >>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> > >>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> > >>> than I would've expected?
> > >>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> > >>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> > >>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > >>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> > >>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> > >>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> > >>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> > >>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> > >>>
> > >>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> > >>> anyway:
> > >>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> > >>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> > >>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> > >>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> > >>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> > >>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> > >>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> > >>>
> > >>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> > >>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> > >>>
> > >>> Do you mind trying:
> > >>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> > >>> on 6.12?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> > >> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > >> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> > >> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> > >> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> > >> cause. That's why results with
> > >> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> > >> would be interesting.
> > >
> > > My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> > > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> > > distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> > >
> > > Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> > > counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> > > the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> > > falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> > > time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> > > difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> > > ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> > > tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> > > contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> > > "intercepts" to appear.
> >
> > Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> > up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> > for three reasons:
> > - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> > even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> > - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> > - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> > possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
> >
> > Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> > while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> > probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>
> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>
> > Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>
> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>
> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>
> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
> only real difference appears to be the presence of
> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>
> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
> line 426) and see what happens.
Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>
> > Anyway I'll try to reproduce what Reka is seeing.
>
> That would help too, of course.
[-- Attachment #2: sysfs_6_12_sleep_length_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25011 bytes --]
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/time:12531733
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/usage:53883
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/above:3951
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/below:5014
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/rejected:53
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/time:98392835
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/usage:9054
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/above:3242
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/latency:434
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/rejected:2083020
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/time:140971625
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/usage:9266
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/rejected:14004
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/time:7750019
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/usage:27560
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/above:77
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/below:72
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/rejected:4
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/time:3373111
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[-- Attachment #3: sysfs_6_12_sleep_length_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25018 bytes --]
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/latency:147
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/power:0
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/residency:2580
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/usage:3447
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/rejected:637
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
[-- Attachment #4: trace_6_12_sleep_length.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1191282 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-07 3:28 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-07 11:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-09 20:35 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-07 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Christian Loehle, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7786 bytes --]
On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> > > > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > > >>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> > > >>>> Hi,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> > > >>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> > > >>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> > > >>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> > > >>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> > > >>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> > > >>>> The cases tested are:
> > > >>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> > > >>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> > > >>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> > > >>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> > > >>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> > > >>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> > > >>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> > > >>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> > > >>>> debugging information I should provide.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> That's not good.
> > > >>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> > > >>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> > > >>> than I would've expected?
> > > >>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> > > >>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> > > >>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > > >>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> > > >>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> > > >>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> > > >>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> > > >>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> > > >>> anyway:
> > > >>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> > > >>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> > > >>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> > > >>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> > > >>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> > > >>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> > > >>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> > > >>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Do you mind trying:
> > > >>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> > > >>> on 6.12?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> > > >> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > > >> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> > > >> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> > > >> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> > > >> cause. That's why results with
> > > >> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> > > >> would be interesting.
> > > >
> > > > My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> > > > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> > > > distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> > > >
> > > > Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> > > > counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> > > > the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> > > > falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> > > > time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> > > > difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> > > > ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> > > > tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> > > > contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> > > > "intercepts" to appear.
> > >
> > > Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> > > up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> > > for three reasons:
> > > - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> > > even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> > > - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> > > - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> > > possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
> > >
> > > Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> > > while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> > > probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
> >
> > It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
> >
> > > Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
> >
> > I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
> > 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
> > selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
> > KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
> >
> > It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
> > woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
> > "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
> >
> > Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
> > only real difference appears to be the presence of
> > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
> >
> > Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
> > right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
> > line 426) and see what happens.
>
> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
Thanks for checking this! It means that the
tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
equivalent of the attached patch?
Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
the idle states selection proportions?
[-- Attachment #2: cpuidle-teo-reflect-refinement.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 586 bytes --]
---
drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c | 3 +--
1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 2 deletions(-)
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -507,8 +507,7 @@ static void teo_reflect(struct cpuidle_d
struct teo_cpu *cpu_data = per_cpu_ptr(&teo_cpus, dev->cpu);
dev->last_state_idx = state;
- if (dev->poll_time_limit ||
- (tick_nohz_idle_got_tick() && cpu_data->sleep_length_ns > TICK_NSEC)) {
+ if (dev->poll_time_limit || tick_nohz_idle_got_tick()) {
/*
* The wakeup was not "genuine", but triggered by one of the
* safety nets.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-07 11:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-09 20:35 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-10 6:10 ` Reka Norman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-09 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not good.
>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>>>>>> on 6.12?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>>>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
>>>>
>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
>>>> for three reasons:
>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>>>>
>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>>>
>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>>>
>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>>>
>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>>>
>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>>>
>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
>>> line 426) and see what happens.
>>
>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>
> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
>
> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
> equivalent of the attached patch?
>
> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
> the idle states selection proportions?
I don't quite follow this.
While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
out? [1]
I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
[1]
diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
index 173ddcac540a..d960963cd101 100644
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -428,7 +428,6 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
* know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
*/
duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
- cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
goto out_tick;
}
[2]
diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
index 173ddcac540a..e55b180afc25 100644
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -427,7 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
* We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
* know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
*/
- duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
+ duration_ns = TICK_NSEC / 2;
cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
goto out_tick;
}
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-09 20:35 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-10 6:10 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-10 12:06 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-10 20:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-10 6:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 11493 bytes --]
On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
> >>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
> >>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's not good.
> >>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> >>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> >>>>>>> than I would've expected?
> >>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> >>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> >>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> >>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> >>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> >>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> >>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> >>>>>>> anyway:
> >>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> >>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> >>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> >>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> >>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> >>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> >>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> >>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
> >>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> >>>>>>> on 6.12?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> >>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> >>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> >>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> >>>>>> cause. That's why results with
> >>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> >>>>>> would be interesting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> >>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> >>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> >>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> >>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> >>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> >>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> >>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> >>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> >>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> >>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> >>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
> >>>>
> >>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> >>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> >>>> for three reasons:
> >>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> >>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> >>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> >>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> >>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> >>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> >>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
> >>>
> >>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
> >>>
> >>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
> >>>
> >>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
> >>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
> >>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
> >>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
> >>>
> >>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
> >>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
> >>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
> >>>
> >>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
> >>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
> >>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
> >>>
> >>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
> >>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
> >>> line 426) and see what happens.
> >>
> >> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
> >> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
> >
> > Thanks for checking this! It means that the
> > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
> >
> > Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
> > equivalent of the attached patch?
> >
> > Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
> > the idle states selection proportions?
It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
(6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
>
> I don't quite follow this.
> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
>
> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
> out? [1]
Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
6_12_sleep_length2.
diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
struct cpuidle_device *dev,
* We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
* know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
*/
- duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
- cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
+ volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
goto out_tick;
}
> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
>
> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
unmodified 6.12).
>
> [1]
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index 173ddcac540a..d960963cd101 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -428,7 +428,6 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
> */
> duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
> goto out_tick;
> }
>
>
> [2]
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index 173ddcac540a..e55b180afc25 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -427,7 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
> */
> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> + duration_ns = TICK_NSEC / 2;
> cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
> goto out_tick;
> }
[-- Attachment #2: sysfs_6_12_teo_reflect_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24900 bytes --]
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/time:1214640824
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/usage:1339996
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/above:5
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/below:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/rejected:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/time:15440
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/usage:6
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/above:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/latency:434
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/rejected:2240197
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/time:19594
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/usage:2
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/power:0
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
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[-- Attachment #3: sysfs_mainline_teo_reflect_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25068 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #4: sysfs_6_12_teo_reflect_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24900 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #5: trace_mainline_teo_reflect.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1567181 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #6: trace_6_12_teo_reflect.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 2923859 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #7: sysfs_mainline_teo_reflect_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25066 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #8: sysfs_6_12_sleep_length2_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25015 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #9: sysfs_6_12_sleep_length2_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25008 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #10: trace_6_12_sleep_length2.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1174320 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #11: sysfs_6_12_sleep_length3_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24888 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #12: sysfs_6_12_sleep_length3_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24888 bytes --]
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[-- Attachment #13: trace_6_12_sleep_length3.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 2770595 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #14: trace_duration.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 4562206 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-10 6:10 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-10 12:06 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-11 4:23 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-10 20:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-10 12:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's not good.
>>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
>>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>>>>>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
>>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
>>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
>>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
>>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
>>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
>>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
>>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
>>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
>>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
>>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
>>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
>>>>>> for three reasons:
>>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
>>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
>>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
>>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
>>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
>>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
>>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
>>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
>>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>>>>>
>>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
>>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
>>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
>>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
>>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
>>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
>>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>>>
>>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
>>>
>>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
>>> equivalent of the attached patch?
>>>
>>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
>>> the idle states selection proportions?
>
> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
>
>>
>> I don't quite follow this.
>> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
>> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
>>
>> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
>> out? [1]
>
> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
> 6_12_sleep_length2.
Thanks for testing
>
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
> */
> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> goto out_tick;
> }
>
>> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
>> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
>
> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
>
Hmm interesting.
>> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
>> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
>> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
>>
>> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
>> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
>
> In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
> includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
> unmodified 6.12).
While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
not missing something here:
-----8<-----
diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
index 173ddcac540a..f4cd648133e7 100644
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -237,6 +237,28 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev)
else
cpu_data->state_bins[idx_duration].intercepts += PULSE;
+ if (dev->cpu == 7) {
+ char buf[1024];
+ size_t off;
+
+ off = scnprintf(buf, sizeof(buf),
+ "cpu=%d last_state_idx=%d state_count=%u "
+ "total=%u sleep_len_ns=%llu last_residency_ns=%llu measured_ns=%llu "
+ "lat_ns=%llu idx_timer=%d idx_duration=%d tick_hits=%u | bins:",
+ dev->cpu, dev->last_state_idx, drv->state_count, cpu_data->total,
+ cpu_data->sleep_length_ns, dev->last_residency_ns, measured_ns,
+ drv->states[dev->last_state_idx].exit_latency_ns,
+ idx_timer, idx_duration, cpu_data->tick_hits);
+
+ for (i = 0; i < drv->state_count && off < sizeof(buf); i++) {
+ struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
+
+ off += scnprintf(buf + off, sizeof(buf) - off,
+ " [%d]h=%u,i=%u,tr=%lld", i, bin->hits,
+ bin->intercepts, drv->states[i].target_residency_ns);
+ }
+ trace_printk("teo_update %s\n", buf);
+ }
end:
cpu_data->total += PULSE;
}
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-10 6:10 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-10 12:06 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-10 20:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
1 sibling, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-10 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman, Christian Loehle; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:11 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
> > >>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> > >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> > >>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> > >>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> > >>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> > >>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> > >>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> > >>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
> > >>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> > >>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> > >>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> > >>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> > >>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> > >>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> > >>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> > >>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> > >>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> That's not good.
> > >>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> > >>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> > >>>>>>> than I would've expected?
> > >>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> > >>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> > >>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > >>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> > >>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> > >>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> > >>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> > >>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> > >>>>>>> anyway:
> > >>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> > >>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> > >>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> > >>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> > >>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> > >>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> > >>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> > >>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
> > >>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> > >>>>>>> on 6.12?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> > >>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> > >>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> > >>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> > >>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> > >>>>>> cause. That's why results with
> > >>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> > >>>>>> would be interesting.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> > >>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> > >>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> > >>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> > >>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> > >>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> > >>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> > >>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> > >>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> > >>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> > >>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> > >>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> > >>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> > >>>> for three reasons:
> > >>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> > >>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> > >>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> > >>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> > >>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> > >>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> > >>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
> > >>>
> > >>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
> > >>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
> > >>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
> > >>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
> > >>>
> > >>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
> > >>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
> > >>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
> > >>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
> > >>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
> > >>>
> > >>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
> > >>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
> > >>> line 426) and see what happens.
> > >>
> > >> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
> > >> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
> > >
> > > Thanks for checking this! It means that the
> > > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
> > >
> > > Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
> > > equivalent of the attached patch?
> > >
> > > Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
> > > the idle states selection proportions?
>
> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
This means that the issue is there regardless of how tick wakeups are counted.
> >
> > I don't quite follow this.
> > While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
> > plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
> >
> > The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
> > out? [1]
It might, but I only wanted to say that the overhead of
tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in the idx == 0 path is most likely
irrelevant to the problem at hand. Sorry for the confusion.
> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
> 6_12_sleep_length2.
>
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
> */
> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> goto out_tick;
> }
>
> > I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
> > reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
>
> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
If the tick period is 10 ms, TICK_NSEC / 2 is well above the target
residency of the deepest idle state, so the only thing that can be
affected by [2] is the check in teo_reflect() and we have just
established that removing that check altogether doesn't make a
difference.
So this appears to be consistent with the observation that the check
in teo_reflect() is not related directly to the issue at hand.
> > There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
> > the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
> > as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
I agree.
With the tick period of 10 ms, the only case in which the tick can be
stopped is when the deepest idle state is selected, but that can only
happen if the pattern of wakeups is not dominated by intercepts.
That's why removing intercepts from the picture causes it to look
"better".
Evidently, intercepts are there both in 6.12 and in the mainline and
while we may be wondering whether or not they are real intercepts, I'm
not sure if this actually matters.
To me, the primary question is what had caused these intercepts to not
be there before 6.12 and quite frankly I'm not sure what it was ATM.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-10 12:06 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-11 4:23 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-11 10:00 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-11 4:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 12852 bytes --]
On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 11:06 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
> >>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That's not good.
> >>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> >>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> >>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
> >>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> >>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> >>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> >>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> >>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> >>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> >>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> >>>>>>>>> anyway:
> >>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> >>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> >>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> >>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> >>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> >>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> >>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> >>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
> >>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> >>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> >>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> >>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> >>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
> >>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> >>>>>>>> would be interesting.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> >>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> >>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> >>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> >>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> >>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> >>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> >>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> >>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> >>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> >>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> >>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> >>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> >>>>>> for three reasons:
> >>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> >>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> >>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> >>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> >>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> >>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> >>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
> >>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
> >>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
> >>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
> >>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
> >>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
> >>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
> >>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
> >>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
> >>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
> >>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
> >>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
> >>>
> >>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
> >>> equivalent of the attached patch?
> >>>
> >>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
> >>> the idle states selection proportions?
> >
> > It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
> > (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
> > 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
> >
> >>
> >> I don't quite follow this.
> >> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
> >> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
> >>
> >> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
> >> out? [1]
> >
> > Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
> > that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
> > 6_12_sleep_length2.
>
> Thanks for testing
>
> >
> > diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
> > --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
> > struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
> > * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
> > */
> > - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> > - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
> > + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
> > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> > goto out_tick;
> > }
> >
> >> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
> >> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
> >
> > Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
> >
>
> Hmm interesting.
>
> >> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
> >> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
> >> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
> >>
> >> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
> >> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
> >
> > In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
> > includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
> > unmodified 6.12).
> While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
> time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
> May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
> not missing something here:
Trace attached.
>
> -----8<-----
>
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index 173ddcac540a..f4cd648133e7 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -237,6 +237,28 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev)
> else
> cpu_data->state_bins[idx_duration].intercepts += PULSE;
>
> + if (dev->cpu == 7) {
> + char buf[1024];
> + size_t off;
> +
> + off = scnprintf(buf, sizeof(buf),
> + "cpu=%d last_state_idx=%d state_count=%u "
> + "total=%u sleep_len_ns=%llu last_residency_ns=%llu measured_ns=%llu "
> + "lat_ns=%llu idx_timer=%d idx_duration=%d tick_hits=%u | bins:",
> + dev->cpu, dev->last_state_idx, drv->state_count, cpu_data->total,
> + cpu_data->sleep_length_ns, dev->last_residency_ns, measured_ns,
> + drv->states[dev->last_state_idx].exit_latency_ns,
> + idx_timer, idx_duration, cpu_data->tick_hits);
> +
> + for (i = 0; i < drv->state_count && off < sizeof(buf); i++) {
> + struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> +
> + off += scnprintf(buf + off, sizeof(buf) - off,
> + " [%d]h=%u,i=%u,tr=%lld", i, bin->hits,
> + bin->intercepts, drv->states[i].target_residency_ns);
> + }
> + trace_printk("teo_update %s\n", buf);
> + }
> end:
> cpu_data->total += PULSE;
> }
[-- Attachment #2: trace.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 3488132 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-11 4:23 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-11 10:00 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-11 10:48 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-11 10:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/11/25 04:23, Reka Norman wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 11:06 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>>>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>>>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>>>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>>>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>>>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>>>>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>>>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>>>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>>>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>>>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>>>>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>>>>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>>>>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>>>>>>>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
>>>>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
>>>>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
>>>>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
>>>>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
>>>>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
>>>>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
>>>>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
>>>>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
>>>>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
>>>>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
>>>>>>>> for three reasons:
>>>>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
>>>>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
>>>>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
>>>>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
>>>>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
>>>>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
>>>>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
>>>>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
>>>>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
>>>>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
>>>>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
>>>>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
>>>>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
>>>>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
>>>>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
>>>>> equivalent of the attached patch?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
>>>>> the idle states selection proportions?
>>>
>>> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
>>> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
>>> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't quite follow this.
>>>> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
>>>> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
>>>>
>>>> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
>>>> out? [1]
>>>
>>> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
>>> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
>>> 6_12_sleep_length2.
>>
>> Thanks for testing
>>
>>>
>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
>>> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
>>> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
>>> */
>>> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
>>> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>> goto out_tick;
>>> }
>>>
>>>> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
>>>> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
>>>
>>> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
>>>
>>
>> Hmm interesting.
>>
>>>> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
>>>> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
>>>> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
>>>>
>>>> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
>>>> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
>>>
>>> In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
>>> includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
>>> unmodified 6.12).
>> While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
>> time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
>> May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
>> not missing something here:
>
> Trace attached.
>
Thank you!
So the intercept bin counts themselves aren't the issue:
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=62615312 last_residency_ns=997307 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
<idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
<idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=61615389 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
<idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
<idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=60615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
<idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
<idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
<idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=59615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
386 if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum)
will be 2*7 > 8206 - (7 + 8192) => True
The intercept state selection will choose a state that covers at least half of the
intercepts, but only bin 0 has intercepts at all => state0 selected.
I see two issues:
1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
have been a really good candidate actually).
I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
(the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
-----8<-----
diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
* all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
* better choice.
*/
- if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
+ if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
int first_suitable_idx = idx;
/*
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-11 10:00 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-11 10:48 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-11 11:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-11 10:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> On 11/11/25 04:23, Reka Norman wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 11:06 PM Christian Loehle
>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>>>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>>>>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>>>>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>>>>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>>>>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>>>>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>>>>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>>>>>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>>>>>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>>>>>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>>>>>>>>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
>>>>>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
>>>>>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
>>>>>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
>>>>>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
>>>>>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
>>>>>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
>>>>>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
>>>>>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
>>>>>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
>>>>>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
>>>>>>>>> for three reasons:
>>>>>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
>>>>>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
>>>>>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
>>>>>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
>>>>>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
>>>>>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
>>>>>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
>>>>>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
>>>>>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
>>>>>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
>>>>>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
>>>>>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
>>>>>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
>>>>>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
>>>>>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
>>>>>> equivalent of the attached patch?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
>>>>>> the idle states selection proportions?
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
>>>> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
>>>> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't quite follow this.
>>>>> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
>>>>> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
>>>>>
>>>>> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
>>>>> out? [1]
>>>>
>>>> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
>>>> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
>>>> 6_12_sleep_length2.
>>>
>>> Thanks for testing
>>>
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
>>>> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
>>>> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
>>>> */
>>>> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>>> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
>>>> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>>> goto out_tick;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
>>>>> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
>>>>
>>>> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm interesting.
>>>
>>>>> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
>>>>> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
>>>>> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
>>>>> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
>>>>
>>>> In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
>>>> includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
>>>> unmodified 6.12).
>>> While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
>>> time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
>>> May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
>>> not missing something here:
>>
>> Trace attached.
>>
>
> Thank you!
> So the intercept bin counts themselves aren't the issue:
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=62615312 last_residency_ns=997307 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=61615389 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=60615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=59615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>
>
> 386 if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum)
> will be 2*7 > 8206 - (7 + 8192) => True
> The intercept state selection will choose a state that covers at least half of the
> intercepts, but only bin 0 has intercepts at all => state0 selected.
>
> I see two issues:
> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> have been a really good candidate actually).
>
> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>
> -----8<-----
>
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> * better choice.
> */
> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>
> /*
>
>
... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
-----8<-----
diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
* has been stopped already into account.
*/
intercept_sum = 0;
+ hit_sum = 0;
for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
+ hit_sum += bin->hits;
- if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
+ if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
/*
* Use the current state unless it is too
* shallow or disabled, in which case take the
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-11 10:48 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-11 11:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-11 17:20 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-11 11:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Reka Norman, Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > On 11/11/25 04:23, Reka Norman wrote:
> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 11:06 PM Christian Loehle
> >> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's not good.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
> >>>>>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
> >>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
> >>>>>>>>>>>> anyway:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
> >>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
> >>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
> >>>>>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
> >>>>>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
> >>>>>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
> >>>>>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
> >>>>>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
> >>>>>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
> >>>>>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> >>>>>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
> >>>>>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
> >>>>>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
> >>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
> >>>>>>>>>>> would be interesting.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
> >>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
> >>>>>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
> >>>>>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
> >>>>>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
> >>>>>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
> >>>>>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
> >>>>>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
> >>>>>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
> >>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
> >>>>>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
> >>>>>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
> >>>>>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
> >>>>>>>>> for three reasons:
> >>>>>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
> >>>>>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
> >>>>>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
> >>>>>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
> >>>>>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
> >>>>>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
> >>>>>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
> >>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
> >>>>>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
> >>>>>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
> >>>>>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
> >>>>>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
> >>>>>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
> >>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
> >>>>>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
> >>>>>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
> >>>>>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
> >>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
> >>>>>> equivalent of the attached patch?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
> >>>>>> the idle states selection proportions?
> >>>>
> >>>> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
> >>>> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
> >>>> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't quite follow this.
> >>>>> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
> >>>>> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
> >>>>> out? [1]
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
> >>>> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
> >>>> 6_12_sleep_length2.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for testing
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
> >>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
> >>>> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
> >>>> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
> >>>> */
> >>>> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> >>>> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
> >>>> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
> >>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
> >>>> goto out_tick;
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
> >>>>> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Hmm interesting.
> >>>
> >>>>> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
> >>>>> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
> >>>>> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
> >>>>> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
> >>>>
> >>>> In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
> >>>> includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
> >>>> unmodified 6.12).
> >>> While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
> >>> time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
> >>> May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
> >>> not missing something here:
> >>
> >> Trace attached.
> >>
> >
> > Thank you!
> > So the intercept bin counts themselves aren't the issue:
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=62615312 last_residency_ns=997307 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
> > <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
> > <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=61615389 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
> > <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
> > <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=60615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
> > <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
> > <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
> > <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=59615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
> >
> >
> > 386 if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum)
> > will be 2*7 > 8206 - (7 + 8192) => True
> > The intercept state selection will choose a state that covers at least half of the
> > intercepts, but only bin 0 has intercepts at all => state0 selected.
> >
> > I see two issues:
> > 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
This shouldn't be a problem.
> > 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> > exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> > have been a really good candidate actually).
Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
somebody reported a regression IIRC.
This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >
> > I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> > (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >
> > -----8<-----
> >
> > diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> > --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> > * better choice.
> > */
> > - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> > + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> > int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >
> > /*
> >
> >
>
> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>
> -----8<-----
>
> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> * has been stopped already into account.
> */
> intercept_sum = 0;
> + hit_sum = 0;
>
> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>
> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>
> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> /*
> * Use the current state unless it is too
> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
matter what.
The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
ensues.
The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
idle state 0.
The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
what pre-6.12 did.
IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-11 11:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-11 17:20 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 9:51 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 13:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-11 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/11/25 04:23, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 11:06 PM Christian Loehle
>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
>>>>>>>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
>>>>>>>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
>>>>>>>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
>>>>>>>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
>>>>>>>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
>>>>>>>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
>>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
>>>>>>>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
>>>>>>>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
>>>>>>>>>>> for three reasons:
>>>>>>>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
>>>>>>>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
>>>>>>>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
>>>>>>>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
>>>>>>>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
>>>>>>>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
>>>>>>>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
>>>>>>>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
>>>>>>>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
>>>>>>>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
>>>>>>>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
>>>>>>>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
>>>>>>>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
>>>>>>>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
>>>>>>>> equivalent of the attached patch?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
>>>>>>>> the idle states selection proportions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
>>>>>> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
>>>>>> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't quite follow this.
>>>>>>> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
>>>>>>> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
>>>>>>> out? [1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
>>>>>> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
>>>>>> 6_12_sleep_length2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for testing
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
>>>>>> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
>>>>>> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
>>>>>> */
>>>>>> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>>>>> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
>>>>>> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>>>>> goto out_tick;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
>>>>>>> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
>>>>>>> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
>>>>>>> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
>>>>>>> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
>>>>>> includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
>>>>>> unmodified 6.12).
>>>>> While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
>>>>> time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
>>>>> May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
>>>>> not missing something here:
>>>>
>>>> Trace attached.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> So the intercept bin counts themselves aren't the issue:
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=62615312 last_residency_ns=997307 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=61615389 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=60615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=59615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>>
>>>
>>> 386 if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum)
>>> will be 2*7 > 8206 - (7 + 8192) => True
>>> The intercept state selection will choose a state that covers at least half of the
>>> intercepts, but only bin 0 has intercepts at all => state0 selected.
>>>
>>> I see two issues:
>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>
> This shouldn't be a problem.
Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
never been an issue.
>
>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>
> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>
> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>
>>>
>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>
>>> -----8<-----
>>>
>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>> * better choice.
>>> */
>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>
>> -----8<-----
>>
>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>> * has been stopped already into account.
>> */
>> intercept_sum = 0;
>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>
>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>
>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>
>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>> /*
>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>
> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> matter what.
>
Ah, right!
> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>
> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> ensues.
So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
intercept logic.
>
> The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
> below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
> the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
> doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
> idle state 0.
>
> The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
> what pre-6.12 did.
>
> IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
> as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
I guess we don't really have a choice but to have every 10th or so idle
during intercept try the sleep_length state with tick off (i.e. disregard
intercept) and see if that's still the case? If the sleep length is now
accurate and we haven't been woken up then keep disregarding until it does
again?
It's the smartest thing I can come up with for now, but I'll give it some
more thought!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-11 17:20 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-12 9:51 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 13:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 13:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-12 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/11/25 17:20, Christian Loehle wrote:
> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>> On 11/11/25 04:23, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 11:06 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/10/25 06:10, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2025 at 7:35 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/7/25 11:35, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 4:28 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 7:33 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 12:13 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/25 20:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:24 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 09:03, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/25 03:36, Reka Norman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m seeing a regression in the TEO governor between 6.6 and 6.12. At
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.12, when the system is idle it’s spending almost 100% of time in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WFI, compared to about 6% at 6.6. At mainline it has improved compared
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 6.12 but is still a lot worse than 6.6, spending about 50% in WFI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is a ChromeOS device with Mediatek MT8196.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bisecting showed the specific commit which caused the regression is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve attached sysfs dumps showing the issue. All were taken a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of minutes after boot, with the device having been idle since boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The cases tested are:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_6.txt = 6.6 kernel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_6_12.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to 6.12
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cpuidle_mainline.txt = 6.6 kernel with teo commits up to mainline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the percentage time spent in each state (averaged across CPUs):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | 6.6 | 6.12 | mainline |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |------------|------:|------:|---------:|
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | WFI | 6.02 | 99.94 | 56.84 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | cpuoff | 11.02 | 0 | 0.65 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | clusteroff | 82.96 | 0.05 | 42.51 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | s2idle | 0 | 0 | 0 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help would be much appreciated. Let me know if there's any other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debugging information I should provide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the system is mostly idle (only boot activity but dumps are taken after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~3mins?), what is causing the wakeups? Even in 6.6 There are definitely more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than I would've expected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that clusteroff and cpuoff have equal residency, which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously a bit awkward for cpuidle, but shouldn't be relevant to your issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit puzzled by your bisect results.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made the intercept logic *less* prone to count (false) intercepts, yet it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to count more of them? (resulting in more WFI).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll think about it some more, for now of course a trace would be very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. (cpuidle events, ipi_raise, irqs?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there ever any latency constraints set?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW the mainline results look the most reasonable, from a 30000 feet view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cluster State above below usage above% below%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE cpuoff-l ~75 ~65 ~140 23% 20%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LITTLE clusteroff-l ~800 0 ~100 89% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MID cpuoff-m ~3–4 ~15 ~20 15% 55%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MID clusteroff-m ~1300 0 ~4000 24% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BIG cpuoff-b 0 1 1 — —
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BIG clusteroff-b ~800 0 ~1900 30% 0%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (WFI seems mostly the correct choice for little CPUs, that's fine, the energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> savings compared to cpuoff should be marginal anyway.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mind trying:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 6.12?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So just thinking out loud, the only case I can actually thing of to explain your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bisect to 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the workload essentially changed dramatically because of our calls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how likely I think that is, but I'm lacking imagination for another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause. That's why results with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My current theory is that this issue is related to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead and the way "intercepts" are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinguished from "hits" in teo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Namely, teo assumes that its own overhead is negligible and so it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> counts a given event as an "intercept" if the measured time spent in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the idle state (with the exit latency roughly taken into account)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls into a different "state bin" than the sleep length (the expected
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time till the next timer). However, the sleep length is computed as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference between the upcoming timer wakeup event time and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ts->idle_entrytime, so it actually includes the time taken by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_next_event(). If the latter is significant, it may
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute to the difference seen by teo_update() and cause extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "intercepts" to appear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, additionally with psci pc-mode and the exposed clusteroff states we end
>>>>>>>>>>>> up vastly exaggerating the wakeup latency (i.e. underestimating the actual idle time)
>>>>>>>>>>>> for three reasons:
>>>>>>>>>>>> - wakeup latency = entry+exit latency (worst case: pay full latencies on both
>>>>>>>>>>>> even though for most cases we don't incur the entry latency)
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Wakeup latency is a worst-case and often is more like 2x-3x of the average.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - We use the (higher) clusteroff values even though the clusteroff state couldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly have been entered as not the entire cluster is idle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonetheless these are all just a "intercept counting is significantly more likely"
>>>>>>>>>>>> while the results show not a single state >0 entered => the intercept logic
>>>>>>>>>>>> probably triggers every cpuidle entry.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has to for this to happen, if timers are not frequent enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Feels like there should be an issue in the feedback loop.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering what the issue could be though. The change in commit
>>>>>>>>>>> 4b20b07ce72f only affects the cases when idle state 0 is about to be
>>>>>>>>>>> selected and it only really changes the sleep length value from
>>>>>>>>>>> KTIME_MAX to something more realistic (but it still may be KTIME_MAX).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It may turn an "intercept" into a "hit", but only if the CPU is not
>>>>>>>>>>> woken up by the tick because those cases had been already counted as
>>>>>>>>>>> "hits" before commit 4b20b07ce72f.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now, if the majority of wakeups in the workload are tick wakeups, the
>>>>>>>>>>> only real difference appears to be the presence of
>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() in that code path.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Frankly, I would try to remove the update of cpu_data->sleep_length_ns
>>>>>>>>>>> right before the "goto out_tick" statement (in 6.12 that should be
>>>>>>>>>>> line 426) and see what happens.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just tried this quickly. Results attached. It goes back to behaving
>>>>>>>>>> the same as 6.6 - about 2% WFI.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for checking this! It means that the
>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead doesn't matter here that much.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Instead of making the change above, can you please try the 6.12
>>>>>>>>> equivalent of the attached patch?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or alternatively, apply this one to the mainline and see if it changes
>>>>>>>>> the idle states selection proportions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It doesn't seem to have an effect. Results are attached for both 6.12
>>>>>>> (6_12_teo_reflect) and mainline (mainline_teo_reflect). 6.12 is still
>>>>>>> 100% WFI and mainline is about 20% WFI on average, the same as before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't quite follow this.
>>>>>>>> While I don't really believe that the tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() overhead
>>>>>>>> plays a role here, how does removing that assignment prove it isn't?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The below (if that's what you meant) might lead to the overhead being optimized
>>>>>>>> out? [1]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh true. I tried the diff below instead (which I think should avoid
>>>>>>> that?). This also behaves the same as 6.6. Results attached as
>>>>>>> 6_12_sleep_length2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for testing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..3c9595bc6c80 100644
>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> @@ -427,8 +427,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv,
>>>>>>> struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>> * We have to query the sleep length here otherwise we don't
>>>>>>> * know after wakeup if our guess was correct.
>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>> - duration_ns = tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>>>>>> - cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = duration_ns;
>>>>>>> + volatile s64 __maybe_unused duration_volatile_ns =
>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length(&delta_tick);
>>>>>>> goto out_tick;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd be curious if [2] behaves like 6.12. So far I haven't been able to
>>>>>>>> reproduce the issue Reka is seeing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Results with [2] attached as 6_12_sleep_length3. Yes, it behaves like 6.12.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's one oddity that immediately came to mind: state1 and state2 having
>>>>>>>> the same residency (slightly different latency though), but when I set these
>>>>>>>> as such teo works fine. So I don't think it is an issue here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Rafael's patch fixes the issue I'd still be curious what the predicted sleep
>>>>>>>> length values are here (they must be <1ms, but do in fact never trigger?).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In case it's helpful, I've attached a trace (trace_duration.dat) which
>>>>>>> includes a trace_printk of the duration_ns at this point (on top of
>>>>>>> unmodified 6.12).
>>>>>> While I was gonna ask for this anyway, it's not that useful (duration_ns is some
>>>>>> time in the far future, most wakeups are obviously ticks).
>>>>>> May I ask you to run the following hopefully one last time, just to check if we're
>>>>>> not missing something here:
>>>>>
>>>>> Trace attached.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>> So the intercept bin counts themselves aren't the issue:
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=62615312 last_residency_ns=997307 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.218324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.219323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=61615389 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.219324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.220323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=60615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.220324: cpu_idle: state=0 cpu_id=7
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221321: cpu_idle: state=4294967295 cpu_id=7
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221322: irq_handler_entry: irq=19 name=arch_timer
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d.h1. 1097.221323: irq_handler_exit: irq=19 ret=handled
>>>> <idle>-0 [007] d..1. 1097.221324: bprint: teo_update: teo_update cpu=7 last_state_idx=0 state_count=4 total=7182 sleep_len_ns=59615312 last_residency_ns=997538 measured_ns=18446744073709551615 lat_ns=1000 idx_timer=2 idx_duration=2 tick_hits=0 | bins: [0]h=7,i=7,tr=1000 [1]h=0,i=0,tr=2580000 [2]h=8192,i=0,tr=2580000 [3]h=0,i=0,tr=4294967295000
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 386 if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum)
>>>> will be 2*7 > 8206 - (7 + 8192) => True
>>>> The intercept state selection will choose a state that covers at least half of the
>>>> intercepts, but only bin 0 has intercepts at all => state0 selected.
>>>>
>>>> I see two issues:
>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>
>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>
> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> never been an issue.
>
>>
>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>
>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>
>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>
>>>>
>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>
>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>> * better choice.
>>>> */
>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>
>>>> /*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>
>>> -----8<-----
>>>
>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>> */
>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>
>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>
>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>
>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>> /*
>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>
>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>> matter what.
>>
>
> Ah, right!
>
>
>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>
>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>> ensues.
>
> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> intercept logic.
>
>>
>> The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
>> below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
>> the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
>> doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
>> idle state 0.
>>
>> The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
>> what pre-6.12 did.
>>
>> IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
>> as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
>
> I guess we don't really have a choice but to have every 10th or so idle
> during intercept try the sleep_length state with tick off (i.e. disregard
> intercept) and see if that's still the case? If the sleep length is now
> accurate and we haven't been woken up then keep disregarding until it does
> again?
> It's the smartest thing I can come up with for now, but I'll give it some
> more thought!
Alternatively we could have the above but have it depend on getting measured_ns
significantly below delta_tick, but that might be a bit risky, I'll send
patches for both later with some preliminary results unless someone objects.
For 6.12 specifically we also get away with for now with just backporting (up to)
13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent").
Obviously this doesn't fix the underlying problem, which menu can also suffer
from AFAICT.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-11 17:20 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 9:51 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-12 13:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 14:03 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-13 5:13 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-12 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6585 bytes --]
On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
[...]
> >>> I see two issues:
> >>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >
> > This shouldn't be a problem.
>
> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> never been an issue.
Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >
> >>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >
> > Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> > below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> > hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> > somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >
> > This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >
> >>>
> >>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>
> >>> -----8<-----
> >>>
> >>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>> * better choice.
> >>> */
> >>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>
> >>> /*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>
> >> -----8<-----
> >>
> >> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >> * has been stopped already into account.
> >> */
> >> intercept_sum = 0;
> >> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>
> >> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>
> >> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>
> >> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >> /*
> >> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >
> > This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> > already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> > matter what.
> >
>
> Ah, right!
>
>
> > The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >
> > Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> > the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> > subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> > deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> > mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> > enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> > tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> > ensues.
>
> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> intercept logic.
Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
wakeups and timer wakeups.
I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
enough reason to stop the tick.
The attached patch tests the theory above, let's see how far it gets
us. Reka, can you please test this one on top of the mainline and see
if it gets you more deep idle state residency?
The difference between it and the previous one is that the sleep
length is set to KTIME_MAX on every tick wakeup.
> >
> > The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
> > below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
> > the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
> > doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
> > idle state 0.
> >
> > The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
> > what pre-6.12 did.
> >
> > IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
> > as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
>
> I guess we don't really have a choice but to have every 10th or so idle
> during intercept try the sleep_length state with tick off (i.e. disregard
> intercept) and see if that's still the case? If the sleep length is now
> accurate and we haven't been woken up then keep disregarding until it does
> again?
Fortunately, we know when the CPU is woken up by the tick, so we can
use that information.
> It's the smartest thing I can come up with for now, but I'll give it some
> more thought!
Thanks!
[-- Attachment #2: cpuidle-teo-tick-wakeups.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 935 bytes --]
---
drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c | 12 +++++++-----
1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -507,13 +507,15 @@ static void teo_reflect(struct cpuidle_d
struct teo_cpu *cpu_data = per_cpu_ptr(&teo_cpus, dev->cpu);
dev->last_state_idx = state;
- if (dev->poll_time_limit ||
- (tick_nohz_idle_got_tick() && cpu_data->sleep_length_ns > TICK_NSEC)) {
+ if (dev->poll_time_limit) {
+ dev->poll_time_limit = false;
+ cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = true;
+ } else if (tick_nohz_idle_got_tick()) {
/*
- * The wakeup was not "genuine", but triggered by one of the
- * safety nets.
+ * Count all tick wakeups as hits on the deepest available idle
+ * state.
*/
- dev->poll_time_limit = false;
+ cpu_data->sleep_length_ns = KTIME_MAX;
cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = true;
} else {
cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = false;
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 9:51 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-12 13:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 14:14 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-12 13:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 10:51 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/11/25 17:20, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
[...]
> >>>> I see two issues:
> >>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>
> >> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >
> > Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> > never been an issue.
> >
> >>
> >>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>
> >> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>
> >> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>
> >>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>
> >>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>> * better choice.
> >>>> */
> >>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>
> >>>> /*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>
> >>> -----8<-----
> >>>
> >>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>> */
> >>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>
> >>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>
> >>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>
> >>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>> /*
> >>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>
> >> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >> matter what.
> >>
> >
> > Ah, right!
> >
> >
> >> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>
> >> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >> ensues.
> >
> > So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> > doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> > to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> > to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> > Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> > intercept logic.
> >
> >>
> >> The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
> >> below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
> >> the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
> >> doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
> >> idle state 0.
> >>
> >> The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
> >> what pre-6.12 did.
> >>
> >> IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
> >> as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
> >
> > I guess we don't really have a choice but to have every 10th or so idle
> > during intercept try the sleep_length state with tick off (i.e. disregard
> > intercept) and see if that's still the case? If the sleep length is now
> > accurate and we haven't been woken up then keep disregarding until it does
> > again?
> > It's the smartest thing I can come up with for now, but I'll give it some
> > more thought!
>
> Alternatively we could have the above but have it depend on getting measured_ns
> significantly below delta_tick, but that might be a bit risky, I'll send
> patches for both later with some preliminary results unless someone objects.
teo_reflect() checks whether or not the tick has happened and it can
pass this information to teo_update().
> For 6.12 specifically we also get away with for now with just backporting (up to)
> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent").
> Obviously this doesn't fix the underlying problem, which menu can also suffer
> from AFAICT.
My understanding is that the mainline version of teo still selects WFI
(idle state 0) too often on the Reka's system, so backporting won't
get us back to the pre-6.12 situation there, will it?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 13:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-12 14:03 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 14:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-13 5:13 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-12 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>
>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>
>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>> never been an issue.
>
> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>
>>>
>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>
>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>
>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>
>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>> */
>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>
>>>>> /*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>
>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>> */
>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>
>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>
>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>
>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>> /*
>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>
>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>> matter what.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, right!
>>
>>
>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>
>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>> ensues.
>>
>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>> intercept logic.
>
> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>
> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> enough reason to stop the tick.
(assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
I'll give it a go as well though!
> [snip]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 13:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-12 14:14 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 14:23 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-12 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/12/25 13:40, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 10:51 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/11/25 17:20, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>
>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>
>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>> never been an issue.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>
>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>> */
>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>
>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>
>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>> */
>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>
>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>
>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>
>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>> /*
>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>
>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>> matter what.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, right!
>>>
>>>
>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>
>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>> ensues.
>>>
>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>> intercept logic.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
>>>> below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
>>>> the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
>>>> doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
>>>> idle state 0.
>>>>
>>>> The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
>>>> what pre-6.12 did.
>>>>
>>>> IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
>>>> as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
>>>
>>> I guess we don't really have a choice but to have every 10th or so idle
>>> during intercept try the sleep_length state with tick off (i.e. disregard
>>> intercept) and see if that's still the case? If the sleep length is now
>>> accurate and we haven't been woken up then keep disregarding until it does
>>> again?
>>> It's the smartest thing I can come up with for now, but I'll give it some
>>> more thought!
>>
>> Alternatively we could have the above but have it depend on getting measured_ns
>> significantly below delta_tick, but that might be a bit risky, I'll send
>> patches for both later with some preliminary results unless someone objects.
>
> teo_reflect() checks whether or not the tick has happened and it can
> pass this information to teo_update().
>
>> For 6.12 specifically we also get away with for now with just backporting (up to)
>> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent").
>> Obviously this doesn't fix the underlying problem, which menu can also suffer
>> from AFAICT.
>
> My understanding is that the mainline version of teo still selects WFI
> (idle state 0) too often on the Reka's system, so backporting won't
> get us back to the pre-6.12 situation there, will it?
From what I can see 6.6 is a bit too aggressive in selecting deep states?
It's certainly debatable, but here's the results again:
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 376,034 | 1.17% | 1,368 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 2,679,129 | 8.33% | 82 | 42 | 51.22% | 40 | 48.78% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 29,124,994 | 90.51% | 415 | 99 | 23.86% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,180,157 | 100.00% | 1,865 | 141 | 7.56% | 40 | 2.14% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 3,902,851 | 3.04% | 10,026 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,604,484 | 9.05% | 715 | 383 | 53.57% | 329 | 46.01% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 112,706,855 | 87.91% | 3,479 | 1,454 | 41.79% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 128,214,190 | 100.00% | 14,220 | 1,837 | 12.92% | 329 | 2.31% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 865,879 | 0.90% | 3,683 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 9,721,676 | 10.13% | 168 | 82 | 48.81% | 84 | 50.00% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 85,388,410 | 88.97% | 599 | 223 | 37.23% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 95,975,965 | 100.00% | 4,450 | 305 | 6.85% | 84 | 1.89% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
The assumption of course that above misses hurt performance and power while below above 'only' wastes
power and therefore you'd rather risk more belows than aboves.
At least on arm64 the power savings of WFI compared to cpuoff isn't drastic on the smaller cores, while
the latency is definitely noticeable, but obviously the governor doesn't (and probably shouldn't) know
that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 14:03 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-12 14:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 18:33 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-12 14:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>
> >>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>
> >> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >> never been an issue.
> >
> > Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >
> >>>
> >>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>
> >>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>
> >>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>
> >>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>> */
> >>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>
> >>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>
> >>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>> */
> >>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>
> >>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>
> >>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>
> >>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>> /*
> >>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>
> >>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>> matter what.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Ah, right!
> >>
> >>
> >>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>
> >>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>> ensues.
> >>
> >> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >> intercept logic.
> >
> > Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> > wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >
> > I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> > deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> > wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> > wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> > enough reason to stop the tick.
>
> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> I'll give it a go as well though!
Thanks!
Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
drastic variant of this change.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 14:14 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-12 14:23 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-12 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:14 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/12/25 13:40, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 10:51 AM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/11/25 17:20, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>
> >>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>
> >>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>> never been an issue.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>
> >>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>> */
> >>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>
> >>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>> */
> >>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>
> >>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>> /*
> >>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>
> >>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>> matter what.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Ah, right!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>
> >>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>> ensues.
> >>>
> >>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>> intercept logic.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The change in commit 4b20b07ce72f causes the sleep length to fall
> >>>> below the deepest idle state target residency at least sometimes in
> >>>> the scenario above, and if the subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it
> >>>> doesn't matter how it is counted - it will contribute to selecting
> >>>> idle state 0.
> >>>>
> >>>> The mainline is affected to a lesser extent because it sometimes does
> >>>> what pre-6.12 did.
> >>>>
> >>>> IMV addressing this would require changing the check you've identified
> >>>> as the culprit, but I'm not sure how to change it TBH.
> >>>
> >>> I guess we don't really have a choice but to have every 10th or so idle
> >>> during intercept try the sleep_length state with tick off (i.e. disregard
> >>> intercept) and see if that's still the case? If the sleep length is now
> >>> accurate and we haven't been woken up then keep disregarding until it does
> >>> again?
> >>> It's the smartest thing I can come up with for now, but I'll give it some
> >>> more thought!
> >>
> >> Alternatively we could have the above but have it depend on getting measured_ns
> >> significantly below delta_tick, but that might be a bit risky, I'll send
> >> patches for both later with some preliminary results unless someone objects.
> >
> > teo_reflect() checks whether or not the tick has happened and it can
> > pass this information to teo_update().
> >
> >> For 6.12 specifically we also get away with for now with just backporting (up to)
> >> 13ed5c4a6d9c ("cpuidle: teo: Skip getting the sleep length if wakeups are very frequent").
> >> Obviously this doesn't fix the underlying problem, which menu can also suffer
> >> from AFAICT.
> >
> > My understanding is that the mainline version of teo still selects WFI
> > (idle state 0) too often on the Reka's system, so backporting won't
> > get us back to the pre-6.12 situation there, will it?
>
> From what I can see 6.6 is a bit too aggressive in selecting deep states?
You can say so. It depends a good deal on what the expectation is though.
I think that the mainline is almost there, but it still has the case
in which it doesn't matter how a tick wakeup is counted (at least on
the Reka's system) which is a bit concerning.
> It's certainly debatable, but here's the results again:
>
> Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> | BIG | 0 | WFI | 376,034 | 1.17% | 1,368 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 2,679,129 | 8.33% | 82 | 42 | 51.22% | 40 | 48.78% |
> | BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 29,124,994 | 90.51% | 415 | 99 | 23.86% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | BIG | TOTAL | | 32,180,157 | 100.00% | 1,865 | 141 | 7.56% | 40 | 2.14% |
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>
> Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> +=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> | LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 3,902,851 | 3.04% | 10,026 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,604,484 | 9.05% | 715 | 383 | 53.57% | 329 | 46.01% |
> | LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 112,706,855 | 87.91% | 3,479 | 1,454 | 41.79% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | LITTLE | TOTAL | | 128,214,190 | 100.00% | 14,220 | 1,837 | 12.92% | 329 | 2.31% |
> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>
> Per-Cluster deltas: MID
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> | MID | 0 | WFI | 865,879 | 0.90% | 3,683 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 9,721,676 | 10.13% | 168 | 82 | 48.81% | 84 | 50.00% |
> | MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 85,388,410 | 88.97% | 599 | 223 | 37.23% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | MID | TOTAL | | 95,975,965 | 100.00% | 4,450 | 305 | 6.85% | 84 | 1.89% |
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>
> The assumption of course that above misses hurt performance and power while below above 'only' wastes
> power and therefore you'd rather risk more belows than aboves.
> At least on arm64 the power savings of WFI compared to cpuoff isn't drastic on the smaller cores, while
> the latency is definitely noticeable, but obviously the governor doesn't (and probably shouldn't) know
> that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 14:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-12 18:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-13 15:43 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-12 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>
>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>> never been an issue.
>>>
>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>
>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>> */
>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>
>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>> /*
>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>
>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>
>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>> ensues.
>>>>
>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>> intercept logic.
>>>
>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>
>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>
>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> drastic variant of this change.
Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
Let's see what Reka reports.
device gov iter iops idles idle_miss ratio belows aboves
mmcblk1 teo-m 0 2331 639646 147 0.000 112 35
mmcblk1 teo-m 1 2349 642996 57 0.000 41 16
mmcblk1 teo-m 2 2332 642354 56 0.000 41 15
mmcblk1 teo-patch 0 2326 599172 1879 0.003 1848 31
mmcblk1 teo-patch 1 2326 600758 1985 0.003 1951 34
mmcblk1 teo-patch 2 2325 596952 1958 0.003 1925 33
mmcblk1 teo-6-6 0 2336 592780 1767 0.003 1704 63
mmcblk1 teo-6-6 1 2333 600766 1540 0.003 1509 31
mmcblk1 teo-6-6 2 2332 599472 1619 0.003 1556 63
mmcblk1 teo-6-12 0 2331 699264 28 0.000 18 10
mmcblk1 teo-6-12 1 2336 725778 4 0.000 3 1
mmcblk1 teo-6-12 2 2344 719444 7 0.000 6 1
mmcblk2 teo-m 0 5693 866432 958 0.001 929 29
mmcblk2 teo-m 1 5686 866342 61 0.000 38 23
mmcblk2 teo-m 2 5627 700660 3468 0.005 3411 57
mmcblk2 teo-patch 0 5148 669428 49931 0.075 49888 43
mmcblk2 teo-patch 1 5405 742294 26013 0.035 25988 25
mmcblk2 teo-patch 2 5117 700422 53294 0.076 53276 18
mmcblk2 teo-6-6 0 5658 816016 4851 0.006 4830 21
mmcblk2 teo-6-6 1 5701 847102 3141 0.004 1508 1633
mmcblk2 teo-6-6 2 5823 848040 3504 0.004 2413 1091
mmcblk2 teo-6-12 0 5648 780954 4 0.000 2 2
mmcblk2 teo-6-12 1 5669 975648 6 0.000 4 2
mmcblk2 teo-6-12 2 5681 935194 9 0.000 6 3
nvme0n1 teo-m 0 10486 776106 75 0.000 57 18
nvme0n1 teo-m 1 11795 857688 112 0.000 48 64
nvme0n1 teo-m 2 10374 767134 107 0.000 49 58
nvme0n1 teo-patch 0 10813 752086 1913 0.003 1792 121
nvme0n1 teo-patch 1 10730 752280 1734 0.002 1642 92
nvme0n1 teo-patch 2 11474 798976 1796 0.002 1664 132
nvme0n1 teo-6-6 0 10416 731240 1588 0.002 1525 63
nvme0n1 teo-6-6 1 10693 747664 1699 0.002 1576 123
nvme0n1 teo-6-6 2 10652 745848 1844 0.002 1740 104
nvme0n1 teo-6-12 0 10657 958428 21 0.000 11 10
nvme0n1 teo-6-12 1 11508 1042604 5 0.000 5 0
nvme0n1 teo-6-12 2 10562 917098 120 0.000 61 59
sda teo-m 0 1271 627586 549 0.001 530 19
sda teo-m 1 1275 842724 63 0.000 47 16
sda teo-m 2 1271 843048 303 0.000 229 74
sda teo-patch 0 1218 749892 56469 0.075 56466 3
sda teo-patch 1 1238 738258 20579 0.028 20569 10
sda teo-patch 2 1199 684780 73871 0.108 73822 49
sda teo-6-6 0 1268 766452 2554 0.003 2544 10
sda teo-6-6 1 1267 767080 3405 0.004 2857 548
sda teo-6-6 2 1264 537394 4374 0.008 4359 15
sda teo-6-12 0 1271 890540 4 0.000 3 1
sda teo-6-12 1 1271 890898 7 0.000 6 1
sda teo-6-12 2 1271 897370 1 0.000 1 0
nullb0 teo-m 0 101665 112024 156 0.001 23 133
nullb0 teo-m 1 101735 112060 250 0.002 145 105
nullb0 teo-m 2 101439 112700 105 0.001 50 55
nullb0 teo-patch 0 102434 74802 2024 0.027 1974 50
nullb0 teo-patch 1 101920 75126 1785 0.024 1759 26
nullb0 teo-patch 2 101471 71876 2201 0.031 1998 203
nullb0 teo-6-6 0 101455 75484 1974 0.026 1808 166
nullb0 teo-6-6 1 101893 75116 1862 0.025 1726 136
nullb0 teo-6-6 2 101853 65582 3474 0.053 1529 1945
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 13:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 14:03 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-13 5:13 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-13 10:52 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-13 5:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Christian Loehle, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5842 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 13, 2025 at 12:32 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> > > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > >>> I see two issues:
> > >>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> > >
> > > This shouldn't be a problem.
> >
> > Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> > never been an issue.
>
> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>
> > >
> > >>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> > >>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> > >>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> > >
> > > Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> > > below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> > > hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> > > somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> > >
> > > This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> > >>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> > >>>
> > >>> -----8<-----
> > >>>
> > >>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> > >>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > >>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> > >>> * better choice.
> > >>> */
> > >>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> > >>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> > >>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> > >>>
> > >>> /*
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> > >> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> > >>
> > >> -----8<-----
> > >>
> > >> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> > >> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > >> * has been stopped already into account.
> > >> */
> > >> intercept_sum = 0;
> > >> + hit_sum = 0;
> > >>
> > >> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> > >> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> > >>
> > >> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> > >> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> > >>
> > >> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> > >> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> > >> /*
> > >> * Use the current state unless it is too
> > >> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> > >
> > > This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> > > already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> > > matter what.
> > >
> >
> > Ah, right!
> >
> >
> > > The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> > >
> > > Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> > > the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> > > subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> > > deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> > > mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> > > enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> > > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> > > tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> > > ensues.
> >
> > So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> > doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> > to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> > to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> > Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> > intercept logic.
>
> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>
> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> enough reason to stop the tick.
>
> The attached patch tests the theory above, let's see how far it gets
> us. Reka, can you please test this one on top of the mainline and see
> if it gets you more deep idle state residency?
Yes, that definitely makes a difference! Results attached. They're
pretty comparable to 6.6 - about 2% WFI on average across CPUs.
[-- Attachment #2: sysfs_mainline_tick_wakeups_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25014 bytes --]
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/time:8504080
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/usage:29719
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/above:4467
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/below:3581
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/rejected:95
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/time:73244853
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/usage:8131
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/above:3705
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/latency:434
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/rejected:2269863
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/time:127072690
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/usage:9093
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/rejected:22142
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
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[-- Attachment #3: trace_mainline_tick_wakeups.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1044174 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #4: sysfs_mainline_tick_wakeups_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25010 bytes --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-13 5:13 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-13 10:52 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-13 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Christian Loehle, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Thu, Nov 13, 2025 at 6:13 AM Reka Norman <rekanorman@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2025 at 12:32 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> > > > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > >>> I see two issues:
> > > >>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> > > >
> > > > This shouldn't be a problem.
> > >
> > > Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> > > never been an issue.
> >
> > Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >
> > > >
> > > >>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> > > >>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> > > >>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> > > >
> > > > Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> > > > below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> > > > hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> > > > somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> > > >
> > > > This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> > > >>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----8<-----
> > > >>>
> > > >>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > > >>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> > > >>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > > >>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > > >>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > > >>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> > > >>> * better choice.
> > > >>> */
> > > >>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> > > >>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> > > >>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> > > >>>
> > > >>> /*
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> > > >> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> > > >>
> > > >> -----8<-----
> > > >>
> > > >> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > > >> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> > > >> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > > >> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > > >> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > > >> * has been stopped already into account.
> > > >> */
> > > >> intercept_sum = 0;
> > > >> + hit_sum = 0;
> > > >>
> > > >> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> > > >> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> > > >>
> > > >> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> > > >> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> > > >>
> > > >> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> > > >> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> > > >> /*
> > > >> * Use the current state unless it is too
> > > >> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> > > >
> > > > This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> > > > already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> > > > matter what.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ah, right!
> > >
> > >
> > > > The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> > > >
> > > > Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> > > > the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> > > > subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> > > > deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> > > > mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> > > > enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> > > > tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> > > > tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> > > > ensues.
> > >
> > > So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> > > doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> > > to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> > > to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> > > Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> > > intercept logic.
> >
> > Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> > wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >
> > I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> > deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> > wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> > wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> > enough reason to stop the tick.
> >
> > The attached patch tests the theory above, let's see how far it gets
> > us. Reka, can you please test this one on top of the mainline and see
> > if it gets you more deep idle state residency?
>
> Yes, that definitely makes a difference! Results attached. They're
> pretty comparable to 6.6 - about 2% WFI on average across CPUs.
Cool, thanks!
We seem to be on the right track.
This version of the patch is overly aggressive and I'm going to send
an adulterated version of it later today.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-12 18:33 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-13 15:43 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-13 16:56 ` [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-19 22:43 ` Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12 Doug Smythies
0 siblings, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-13 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>
>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>
>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>
>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>
>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>> drastic variant of this change.
>
> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> Let's see what Reka reports.
>
Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
/ low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
device gov iter iops idles idle_miss ratio belows aboves
mmcblk1 teo-m 0 2330 644806 69 0.000 47 22
mmcblk1 teo-m 1 2328 642994 102 0.000 66 36
mmcblk1 teo-m 2 2352 644020 44 0.000 28 16
mmcblk1 teo-patch 0 2323 596298 1830 0.003 1799 31
mmcblk1 teo-patch 1 2324 598574 1964 0.003 1926 38
mmcblk1 teo-patch 2 2325 599980 1908 0.003 1894 14
mmcblk1 teo-6-6 0 2329 596768 1753 0.003 1686 67
mmcblk1 teo-6-6 1 2330 600324 1527 0.003 1495 32
mmcblk1 teo-6-6 2 2331 600110 1439 0.002 1397 42
mmcblk1 teo-6-12 0 2347 741170 6 0.000 4 2
mmcblk1 teo-6-12 1 2329 782232 0 0.000 4 2
mmcblk1 teo-6-12 2 2328 775652 10 0.000 8 2
mmcblk2 teo-m 0 5758 860660 61 0.000 47 14
mmcblk2 teo-m 1 5731 827264 493 0.001 477 16
mmcblk2 teo-m 2 5700 861346 69 0.000 50 19
mmcblk2 teo-patch 0 5494 817672 19415 0.024 19379 36
mmcblk2 teo-patch 1 5474 717618 20018 0.028 19962 56
mmcblk2 teo-patch 2 5308 640356 33998 0.053 33970 28
mmcblk2 teo-6-6 0 5692 848824 1748 0.002 1685 63
mmcblk2 teo-6-6 1 5898 876180 1225 0.001 1215 10
mmcblk2 teo-6-6 2 5646 633846 2248 0.004 2199 49
mmcblk2 teo-6-12 0 5869 1009742 9 0.000 6 3
mmcblk2 teo-6-12 1 5644 775326 4 0.000 4 0
mmcblk2 teo-6-12 2 5671 904480 4 0.000 4 0
nvme0n1 teo-m 0 10342 765802 152 0.000 55 97
nvme0n1 teo-m 1 10703 789232 157 0.000 52 105
nvme0n1 teo-m 2 10405 770046 62 0.000 34 28
nvme0n1 teo-patch 0 10590 740088 1995 0.003 1848 147
nvme0n1 teo-patch 1 10472 733540 1686 0.002 1573 113
nvme0n1 teo-patch 2 10654 741262 1424 0.002 1329 95
nvme0n1 teo-6-6 0 11507 798450 1564 0.002 1505 59
nvme0n1 teo-6-6 1 10499 735294 2009 0.003 1879 130
nvme0n1 teo-6-6 2 10598 740936 1756 0.002 1477 279
nvme0n1 teo-6-12 0 10542 922846 18 0.000 12 6
nvme0n1 teo-6-12 1 10482 922114 23 0.000 16 7
nvme0n1 teo-6-12 2 11046 940398 23 0.000 17 6
sda teo-m 0 1269 778958 111 0.000 108 3
sda teo-m 1 1268 831064 1064 0.001 1054 10
sda teo-m 2 1270 803714 2044 0.003 2034 10
sda teo-patch 0 1206 763874 62173 0.081 62169 4
sda teo-patch 1 1219 740656 58484 0.079 58477 7
sda teo-patch 2 1172 728598 95154 0.131 95151 3
sda teo-6-6 0 1257 591486 5450 0.009 5435 15
sda teo-6-6 1 1265 788536 4412 0.006 4404 8
sda teo-6-6 2 1254 788282 4470 0.006 4461 9
sda teo-6-12 0 1274 841398 0 0.000 4461 9
sda teo-6-12 1 1271 840824 0 0.000 4461 9
sda teo-6-12 2 1272 923816 4 0.000 4 0
nullb0 teo-m 0 101284 114406 178 0.002 70 108
nullb0 teo-m 1 101381 112804 496 0.004 303 193
nullb0 teo-m 2 101716 100370 380 0.004 225 155
nullb0 teo-patch 0 100748 71690 1966 0.027 1853 113
nullb0 teo-patch 1 100858 75426 1716 0.023 1524 192
nullb0 teo-patch 2 101503 74320 1864 0.025 1851 13
nullb0 teo-6-6 0 101295 74346 2369 0.032 2139 230
nullb0 teo-6-6 1 101299 75350 1943 0.026 1803 140
nullb0 teo-6-6 2 100578 73924 2317 0.031 2089 228
nullb0 teo-6-12 0 100005 269180 7 0.000 4 3
nullb0 teo-6-12 1 100705 315302 0 0.000 4 3
nullb0 teo-6-12 2 100861 293350 6 0.000 3 3
mtdblock3 teo-m 0 262 312586 66 0.000 47 19
mtdblock3 teo-m 1 259 635682 100 0.000 97 3
mtdblock3 teo-m 2 258 771110 128 0.000 89 39
mtdblock3 teo-patch 0 244 435660 29414 0.068 29248 166
mtdblock3 teo-patch 1 236 449612 43754 0.097 43631 123
mtdblock3 teo-patch 2 238 814510 35946 0.044 35928 18
mtdblock3 teo-6-6 0 258 782434 1611 0.002 1572 39
mtdblock3 teo-6-6 1 259 591852 1658 0.003 1532 126
mtdblock3 teo-6-6 2 262 274192 1523 0.006 1432 91
mtdblock3 teo-6-12 0 256 986250 11 0.000 10 1
mtdblock3 teo-6-12 1 258 853982 11 0.000 9 2
mtdblock3 teo-6-12 2 260 654184 7 0.000 6 1
test gov i score %change idles idle_miss miss_rt belows aboves
schbench teo-m 0 196 0 26276 12 0.000 10 2
schbench teo-m 1 195 -0 25668 23 0.001 19 4
schbench teo-m 2 208 6 26180 24 0.001 21 3
schbench teo-m 3 191 -2 25384 4 0.000 3 1
schbench teo-m 4 194 -1 26060 31 0.001 21 10
schbench teo-patch 0 195 -0 24678 253 0.010 239 14
schbench teo-patch 1 192 -2 24100 228 0.009 221 7
schbench teo-patch 2 192 -2 25154 310 0.012 281 29
schbench teo-patch 3 194 -1 24426 253 0.010 236 17
schbench teo-patch 4 193 -2 25008 277 0.011 262 15
schbench teo-6-6 0 199 2 24676 128 0.005 121 7
schbench teo-6-6 1 211 8 26794 127 0.005 117 10
schbench teo-6-6 2 205 5 25026 140 0.006 125 15
schbench teo-6-6 3 198 1 24816 196 0.008 174 22
schbench teo-6-6 4 198 1 26604 236 0.009 218 18
schbench teo-6-12 0 190 -3 24464 0 0.000 218 18
schbench teo-6-12 1 190 -3 25274 0 0.000 218 18
schbench teo-6-12 2 190 -3 25256 0 0.000 218 18
schbench teo-6-12 3 199 2 26342 0 0.000 218 18
schbench teo-6-12 4 188 -4 25508 0 0.000 218 18
ebizzy teo-m 0 10733 0 1358 7 0.005 7 0
ebizzy teo-m 1 10750 0 1206 12 0.010 8 4
ebizzy teo-m 2 10699 -0 1950 24 0.012 23 1
ebizzy teo-m 3 10773 0 1384 18 0.013 16 2
ebizzy teo-m 4 10667 -1 2060 24 0.012 23 1
ebizzy teo-patch 0 10728 -0 1474 49 0.033 45 4
ebizzy teo-patch 1 10682 -0 962 26 0.027 26 0
ebizzy teo-patch 2 10687 -0 1082 56 0.052 56 0
ebizzy teo-patch 3 10736 0 1072 22 0.021 22 0
ebizzy teo-patch 4 10674 -1 1156 53 0.046 50 3
ebizzy teo-6-6 0 10659 -1 1442 58 0.040 46 12
ebizzy teo-6-6 1 10653 -1 1144 43 0.038 41 2
ebizzy teo-6-6 2 10696 -0 1256 37 0.029 35 2
ebizzy teo-6-6 3 10710 -0 1168 43 0.037 38 5
ebizzy teo-6-6 4 10696 -0 1166 47 0.040 43 4
ebizzy teo-6-12 0 10709 -0 2186 0 0.000 43 4
ebizzy teo-6-12 1 10687 -0 1688 0 0.000 43 4
ebizzy teo-6-12 2 10689 -0 2806 0 0.000 43 4
ebizzy teo-6-12 3 10734 0 1426 0 0.000 43 4
ebizzy teo-6-12 4 10757 0 2346 0 0.000 43 4
adrestia teo-m 0 8 0 103680 21 0.000 19 2
adrestia teo-m 1 12 50 104026 31 0.000 16 15
adrestia teo-m 2 12 50 104063 32 0.000 24 8
adrestia teo-m 3 12 50 104768 44 0.000 22 22
adrestia teo-m 4 12 50 104388 18 0.000 16 2
adrestia teo-patch 0 12 50 103096 67 0.001 65 2
adrestia teo-patch 1 12 50 103128 57 0.001 49 8
adrestia teo-patch 2 8 0 102812 78 0.001 72 6
adrestia teo-patch 3 12 50 102990 60 0.001 55 5
adrestia teo-patch 4 12 50 103168 24 0.000 24 0
adrestia teo-6-6 0 12 50 102832 61 0.001 51 10
adrestia teo-6-6 1 12 50 103136 52 0.001 38 14
adrestia teo-6-6 2 12 50 102882 37 0.000 29 8
adrestia teo-6-6 3 12 50 103102 51 0.000 40 11
adrestia teo-6-6 4 12 50 103260 60 0.001 43 17
adrestia teo-6-12 0 12 50 112320 0 0.000 43 17
adrestia teo-6-12 1 12 50 114412 0 0.000 43 17
adrestia teo-6-12 2 11 38 112220 0 0.000 43 17
adrestia teo-6-12 3 12 50 112028 0 0.000 43 17
adrestia teo-6-12 4 12 50 112750 0 0.000 43 17
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-13 15:43 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-13 16:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 4:05 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 14:47 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-19 22:43 ` Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12 Doug Smythies
1 sibling, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-13 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> [...]
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>
> >>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>
> >>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >> drastic variant of this change.
> >
> > Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> > on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> > the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> > Let's see what Reka reports.
> >
> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
material:
git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
---
From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
Subject: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
If the wakeup pattern is clearly dominated by tick wakeups, count those
wakeups as hits on the deepest available idle state to increase the
likelihood of stopping the tick, especially on systems where there are
only 2 usable idle states and the tick can only be stopped when the
deeper state is selected.
This change is expected to reduce power on some systems where state 0 is
selected relatively often even though they are almost idle.
Signed-off-by: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
---
drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c | 39 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------
1 file changed, 24 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
--- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
+++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
@@ -133,17 +133,19 @@ struct teo_bin {
* @sleep_length_ns: Time till the closest timer event (at the selection time).
* @state_bins: Idle state data bins for this CPU.
* @total: Grand total of the "intercepts" and "hits" metrics for all bins.
+ * @total_tick: Wakeups by the scheduler tick.
* @tick_intercepts: "Intercepts" before TICK_NSEC.
* @short_idles: Wakeups after short idle periods.
- * @artificial_wakeup: Set if the wakeup has been triggered by a safety net.
+ * @tick_wakeup: Set if the last wakeup was by the scheduler tick.
*/
struct teo_cpu {
s64 sleep_length_ns;
struct teo_bin state_bins[CPUIDLE_STATE_MAX];
unsigned int total;
+ unsigned int total_tick;
unsigned int tick_intercepts;
unsigned int short_idles;
- bool artificial_wakeup;
+ bool tick_wakeup;
};
static DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct teo_cpu, teo_cpus);
@@ -172,9 +174,10 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
teo_decay(&cpu_data->short_idles);
- if (cpu_data->artificial_wakeup) {
+ if (dev->poll_time_limit) {
+ dev->poll_time_limit = false;
/*
- * If one of the safety nets has triggered, assume that this
+ * Polling state timeout has triggered, so assume that this
* might have been a long sleep.
*/
measured_ns = S64_MAX;
@@ -223,6 +226,21 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
cpu_data->total = total + PULSE;
teo_decay(&cpu_data->tick_intercepts);
+
+ teo_decay(&cpu_data->total_tick);
+ if (cpu_data->tick_wakeup) {
+ cpu_data->total_tick += PULSE;
+ /*
+ * If tick wakeups dominate the wakeup pattern, count this one
+ * as a hit on the deepest available idle state to increase the
+ * likelihood of stopping the tick.
+ */
+ if (3 * cpu_data->total_tick > 2 * cpu_data->total) {
+ cpu_data->state_bins[drv->state_count-1].hits += PULSE;
+ return;
+ }
+ }
+
/*
* If the measured idle duration falls into the same bin as the sleep
* length, this is a "hit", so update the "hits" metric for that bin.
@@ -512,18 +530,9 @@ static void teo_reflect(struct cpuidle_d
{
struct teo_cpu *cpu_data = per_cpu_ptr(&teo_cpus, dev->cpu);
+ cpu_data->tick_wakeup = tick_nohz_idle_got_tick();
+
dev->last_state_idx = state;
- if (dev->poll_time_limit ||
- (tick_nohz_idle_got_tick() && cpu_data->sleep_length_ns > TICK_NSEC)) {
- /*
- * The wakeup was not "genuine", but triggered by one of the
- * safety nets.
- */
- dev->poll_time_limit = false;
- cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = true;
- } else {
- cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = false;
- }
}
/**
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-13 16:56 ` [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-14 4:05 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 8:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 9:20 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 14:47 ` Christian Loehle
1 sibling, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-14 4:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Christian Loehle, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 8448 bytes --]
On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> > On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > > On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> > >> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> > >>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> > >>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [...]
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> > >>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> > >>>>> never been an issue.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> > >>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> > >>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> > >>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> > >>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> > >>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> > >>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> > >>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > >>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> > >>>>>>>> * better choice.
> > >>>>>>>> */
> > >>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> > >>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> > >>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> /*
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> > >>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -----8<-----
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> > >>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > >>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> > >>>>>>> */
> > >>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> > >>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> > >>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> > >>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> > >>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> > >>>>>>> /*
> > >>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> > >>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> > >>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> > >>>>>> matter what.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Ah, right!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> > >>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> > >>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> > >>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> > >>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> > >>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> > >>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> > >>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> > >>>>>> ensues.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> > >>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> > >>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> > >>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> > >>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> > >>>>> intercept logic.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> > >>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> > >>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> > >>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> > >>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> > >>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> > >>>
> > >>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> > >>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> > >>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> > >>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> > >>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> > >>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> > >> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> > >> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> > >> drastic variant of this change.
> > >
> > > Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> > > on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> > > the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> > > Let's see what Reka reports.
> > >
> > Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> > / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> > Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>
> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> material:
>
> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>
> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
I’m guessing that’s expected.
I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
my side this looks great, thank you!
[-- Attachment #2: sysfs_mainline_tick_wakeups2_before.txt --]
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[-- Attachment #3: trace_mainline_tick_wakeups2.dat --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1234964 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #4: sysfs_mainline_tick_wakeups2_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 25037 bytes --]
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/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu6/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/time:30143739
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state0/usage:90540
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/above:94
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/below:33
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/latency:147
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/rejected:32
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/residency:2580
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/time:1724734
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state1/usage:128
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/above:3936
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/latency:181
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-b
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/rejected:3007443
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/residency:2580
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/time:1048509059
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state2/usage:16076
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu7/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 4:05 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-14 8:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 14:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-17 5:14 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 9:20 ` Christian Loehle
1 sibling, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-14 8:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman, Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
>>>>
>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
>>>>
>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>>
>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
>> material:
>>
>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>>
>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
>
> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> I’m guessing that’s expected.
>
> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> my side this looks great, thank you!
Good news!
For completeness:
Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| BIG | 0 | WFI | 957,853 | 2.99% | 2,537 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 163,636 | 0.51% | 21 | 18 | 85.71% | 3 | 14.29% |
| BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 30,918,285 | 96.50% | 501 | 128 | 25.55% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| BIG | TOTAL | | 32,039,774 | 100.00% | 3,059 | 146 | 4.77% | 3 | 0.10% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 8,424,141 | 6.63% | 16,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,121,561 | 8.75% | 485 | 96 | 19.79% | 388 | 80.00% |
| LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 107,499,073 | 84.62% | 2,705 | 1,001 | 37.01% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| LITTLE | TOTAL | | 127,044,775 | 100.00% | 19,819 | 1,097 | 5.54% | 388 | 1.96% |
+---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Per-Cluster deltas: MID
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
| cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
+=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
| MID | 0 | WFI | 2,593,501 | 2.72% | 7,278 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 188,793 | 0.20% | 51 | 48 | 94.12% | 3 | 5.88% |
| MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 92,616,252 | 97.08% | 605 | 257 | 42.48% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
| MID | TOTAL | | 95,398,546 | 100.00% | 7,934 | 305 | 3.84% | 3 | 0.04% |
+---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
Out of curiosity:
Do you know if the platform respects cpuoff / clusteroff distinction
properly? Is the power difference measurable?
There really is no reason for cpuidle to not autopromote them, if there's no latency
requirement that would prevent that.
Especially for the big cluster (just one CPU).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 4:05 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 8:33 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-14 9:20 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-17 5:41 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-14 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman, Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
>>>>
>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
>>>>
>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>>
>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
>> material:
>>
>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>>
>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
>
> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> I’m guessing that’s expected.
>
> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> my side this looks great, thank you!
Could you share details on the other platform?
I wasn't able to reproduce your exact behaviour on my systems, so I'd
still like to close my testing gap here!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 8:33 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-14 14:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 14:49 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-17 5:44 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-17 5:14 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-14 14:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 9:33 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>>
> >>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>>
> >>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >>
> >> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> >> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> >> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> >> material:
> >>
> >> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >>
> >> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >
> > Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> > about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> > I’m guessing that’s expected.
> >
> > I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> > noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> > my side this looks great, thank you!
>
> Good news!
So I'm going to queue this up for 6.19 along with the material it depends on.
I'd rather not rush it into 6.18-rc7 because it would not get
meaningful exposure in linux-next before appearing in the mainline in
that case.
Reka, I'm going to add your Tested-by: to it, please let me know if
there are any concerns regarding that.
Now, I think that it needs to go into -stable (6.12+ I suppose?) and
I'm going to instruct -stable to pick up the dependencies along with
it.
Thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-13 16:56 ` [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 4:05 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-14 14:47 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 15:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-14 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/13/25 16:56, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>>>
>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>>>> drastic variant of this change.
>>>
>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
>>>
>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>
> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> material:
>
> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>
> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
>
> ---
> From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> Subject: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
>
> If the wakeup pattern is clearly dominated by tick wakeups, count those
> wakeups as hits on the deepest available idle state to increase the
> likelihood of stopping the tick, especially on systems where there are
> only 2 usable idle states and the tick can only be stopped when the
> deeper state is selected.
Maybe a sentence on the consequence that without this we may be ever-stuck in
the intercept logic.
>
> This change is expected to reduce power on some systems where state 0 is
> selected relatively often even though they are almost idle.
>
Should be a fixes tag, but I think it's a lot earlier than just
4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
> Signed-off-by: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> ---
> drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c | 39 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------
> 1 file changed, 24 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
>
> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> @@ -133,17 +133,19 @@ struct teo_bin {
> * @sleep_length_ns: Time till the closest timer event (at the selection time).
> * @state_bins: Idle state data bins for this CPU.
> * @total: Grand total of the "intercepts" and "hits" metrics for all bins.
> + * @total_tick: Wakeups by the scheduler tick.
> * @tick_intercepts: "Intercepts" before TICK_NSEC.
> * @short_idles: Wakeups after short idle periods.
> - * @artificial_wakeup: Set if the wakeup has been triggered by a safety net.
> + * @tick_wakeup: Set if the last wakeup was by the scheduler tick.
> */
> struct teo_cpu {
> s64 sleep_length_ns;
> struct teo_bin state_bins[CPUIDLE_STATE_MAX];
> unsigned int total;
> + unsigned int total_tick;
> unsigned int tick_intercepts;
> unsigned int short_idles;
> - bool artificial_wakeup;
> + bool tick_wakeup;
> };
>
> static DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct teo_cpu, teo_cpus);
> @@ -172,9 +174,10 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
>
> teo_decay(&cpu_data->short_idles);
>
> - if (cpu_data->artificial_wakeup) {
> + if (dev->poll_time_limit) {
> + dev->poll_time_limit = false;
> /*
> - * If one of the safety nets has triggered, assume that this
> + * Polling state timeout has triggered, so assume that this
> * might have been a long sleep.
> */
> measured_ns = S64_MAX;
> @@ -223,6 +226,21 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
> cpu_data->total = total + PULSE;
>
> teo_decay(&cpu_data->tick_intercepts);
> +
> + teo_decay(&cpu_data->total_tick);
> + if (cpu_data->tick_wakeup) {
> + cpu_data->total_tick += PULSE;
> + /*
> + * If tick wakeups dominate the wakeup pattern, count this one
> + * as a hit on the deepest available idle state to increase the
> + * likelihood of stopping the tick.
> + */
> + if (3 * cpu_data->total_tick > 2 * cpu_data->total) {
> + cpu_data->state_bins[drv->state_count-1].hits += PULSE;
> + return;
> + }
> + }
> +
What if this state happens to be disabled?
If we're walking through the states anyway to find the deepest non-disabled one,
I think the first non-disabled above TICK_NSEC might be an even better choice?
> /*
> * If the measured idle duration falls into the same bin as the sleep
> * length, this is a "hit", so update the "hits" metric for that bin.
> @@ -512,18 +530,9 @@ static void teo_reflect(struct cpuidle_d
> {
> struct teo_cpu *cpu_data = per_cpu_ptr(&teo_cpus, dev->cpu);
>
> + cpu_data->tick_wakeup = tick_nohz_idle_got_tick();
> +
> dev->last_state_idx = state;
> - if (dev->poll_time_limit ||
> - (tick_nohz_idle_got_tick() && cpu_data->sleep_length_ns > TICK_NSEC)) {
> - /*
> - * The wakeup was not "genuine", but triggered by one of the
> - * safety nets.
> - */
> - dev->poll_time_limit = false;
> - cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = true;
> - } else {
> - cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = false;
> - }
> }
The result is definitely still visible, especially looking at the belows, but I'd say
this is in a reasonable range.
Tested-by: Christian Loehle <christian.loehle@arm.com>
device gov iter iops idles idle_miss ratio belows aboves
mmcblk1 teo-m 0 2354 648224 134 0.000 107 27
mmcblk1 teo-m 1 2334 644228 65 0.000 45 20
mmcblk1 teo-m 2 2331 640746 45 0.000 40 5
mmcblk1 teo-tickw 0 2352 596914 676 0.001 669 7
mmcblk1 teo-tickw 1 2331 617500 1553 0.003 1540 13
mmcblk1 teo-tickw 2 2330 613358 1733 0.003 1683 50
mmcblk2 teo-m 0 5702 854292 348 0.000 322 26
mmcblk2 teo-m 1 5657 640504 133 0.000 72 61
mmcblk2 teo-m 2 5651 704356 772 0.001 687 85
mmcblk2 teo-tickw 0 5704 871038 1744 0.002 1712 32
mmcblk2 teo-tickw 1 5617 476288 1791 0.004 1744 47
mmcblk2 teo-tickw 2 5640 632406 3225 0.005 3216 9
nvme0n1 teo-m 0 11446 832564 89 0.000 51 38
nvme0n1 teo-m 1 10568 780452 149 0.000 72 77
nvme0n1 teo-m 2 10505 777496 148 0.000 75 73
nvme0n1 teo-tickw 0 10614 756866 1531 0.002 1482 49
nvme0n1 teo-tickw 1 10583 750434 1427 0.002 1334 93
nvme0n1 teo-tickw 2 11229 796942 1658 0.002 1586 72
sda teo-m 0 1271 869172 318 0.000 315 3
sda teo-m 1 1271 798090 1209 0.002 1037 172
sda teo-m 2 1270 807612 45 0.000 34 11
sda teo-tickw 0 1269 786656 163 0.000 136 27
sda teo-tickw 1 1270 779824 1515 0.002 1499 16
sda teo-tickw 2 1271 600052 1610 0.003 1572 38
nullb0 teo-m 0 103325 105674 156 0.001 96 60
nullb0 teo-m 1 103421 111596 32 0.000 26 6
nullb0 teo-m 2 102145 112404 493 0.004 309 184
nullb0 teo-tickw 0 102055 77872 1672 0.021 1620 52
nullb0 teo-tickw 1 103397 77576 1636 0.021 1599 37
nullb0 teo-tickw 2 103637 87288 1733 0.020 1596 137
mtdblock3 teo-m 0 258 748824 1613 0.002 1600 13
mtdblock3 teo-m 1 258 765398 447 0.001 431 16
mtdblock3 teo-m 2 255 917614 3061 0.003 3044 17
mtdblock3 teo-tickw 0 261 289448 2035 0.007 2031 4
mtdblock3 teo-tickw 1 257 830352 2020 0.002 1986 34
mtdblock3 teo-tickw 2 260 392622 2868 0.007 2854 14
test gov i score %change idles idle_miss miss_rt belows aboves
schbench teo-m 0 194 0 27068 54 0.002 48 6
schbench teo-m 1 213 10 27380 6 0.000 5 1
schbench teo-m 2 195 0 24892 2 0.000 2 0
schbench teo-m 3 194 -0 25356 20 0.001 17 3
schbench teo-m 4 195 0 24966 7 0.000 7 0
schbench teo-tickw 0 195 0 24226 48 0.002 47 1
schbench teo-tickw 1 192 -1 25324 42 0.002 39 3
schbench teo-tickw 2 192 -1 25214 43 0.002 42 1
schbench teo-tickw 3 198 2 24658 59 0.002 57 2
schbench teo-tickw 4 192 -1 25293 48 0.002 45 3
ebizzy teo-m 0 10686 0 1120 12 0.011 10 2
ebizzy teo-m 1 10720 0 1282 14 0.011 14 0
ebizzy teo-m 2 10691 0 1078 11 0.010 11 0
ebizzy teo-m 3 10666 -0 1306 15 0.011 12 3
ebizzy teo-m 4 10699 0 1328 9 0.007 8 1
ebizzy teo-tickw 0 10684 -0 902 11 0.012 11 0
ebizzy teo-tickw 1 10704 0 1032 20 0.019 20 0
ebizzy teo-tickw 2 10684 -0 914 22 0.024 18 4
ebizzy teo-tickw 3 10681 -0 1208 46 0.038 43 3
ebizzy teo-tickw 4 10702 0 1014 20 0.020 19 1
adrestia teo-m 0 12 0 103750 19 0.000 16 3
adrestia teo-m 1 12 0 104082 20 0.000 19 1
adrestia teo-m 2 12 0 103830 22 0.000 12 10
adrestia teo-m 3 12 0 104088 26 0.000 18 8
adrestia teo-m 4 12 0 103740 24 0.000 18 6
adrestia teo-tickw 0 12 0 102792 17 0.000 17 0
adrestia teo-tickw 1 12 0 103020 39 0.000 38 1
adrestia teo-tickw 2 12 0 102870 28 0.000 27 1
adrestia teo-tickw 3 12 0 102746 32 0.000 30 2
adrestia teo-tickw 4 12 0 102926 34 0.000 23 11
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 14:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-14 14:49 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 15:13 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-17 5:44 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-14 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman; +Cc: daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/14/25 14:15, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 9:33 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>>>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>>>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
>>>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
>>>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
>>>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
>>>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
>>>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
>>>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
>>>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
>>>> material:
>>>>
>>>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>>>>
>>>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
>>>
>>> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
>>> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
>>> I’m guessing that’s expected.
>>>
>>> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
>>> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
>>> my side this looks great, thank you!
>>
>> Good news!
>
> So I'm going to queue this up for 6.19 along with the material it depends on.
>
> I'd rather not rush it into 6.18-rc7 because it would not get
> meaningful exposure in linux-next before appearing in the mainline in
> that case.
Ack
>
> Reka, I'm going to add your Tested-by: to it, please let me know if
> there are any concerns regarding that.
>
> Now, I think that it needs to go into -stable (6.12+ I suppose?) and
> I'm going to instruct -stable to pick up the dependencies along with
> it.
>
Would be nice to get teo slightly more aligned, agreed!
As noted I don't think it's 6.12+ only but clearly that's where the
impact of the issue is the highest.
Thanks for fixing this!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 14:47 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-14 15:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 15:33 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-14 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:47 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/13/25 16:56, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks!
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>
> >>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>
> >> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >
> > Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> > directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> > been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> > material:
> >
> > git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >
> > Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >
> > ---
> > From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> > Subject: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
> >
> > If the wakeup pattern is clearly dominated by tick wakeups, count those
> > wakeups as hits on the deepest available idle state to increase the
> > likelihood of stopping the tick, especially on systems where there are
> > only 2 usable idle states and the tick can only be stopped when the
> > deeper state is selected.
>
> Maybe a sentence on the consequence that without this we may be ever-stuck in
> the intercept logic.
Good point, I'll add one.
> >
> > This change is expected to reduce power on some systems where state 0 is
> > selected relatively often even though they are almost idle.
> >
>
> Should be a fixes tag, but I think it's a lot earlier than just
> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
I'll add the Fixes: tag pointing to this because it has exposed the
issue, but I agree that it was there earlier.
> > Signed-off-by: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
> > ---
> > drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c | 39 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------
> > 1 file changed, 24 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
> >
> > --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > @@ -133,17 +133,19 @@ struct teo_bin {
> > * @sleep_length_ns: Time till the closest timer event (at the selection time).
> > * @state_bins: Idle state data bins for this CPU.
> > * @total: Grand total of the "intercepts" and "hits" metrics for all bins.
> > + * @total_tick: Wakeups by the scheduler tick.
> > * @tick_intercepts: "Intercepts" before TICK_NSEC.
> > * @short_idles: Wakeups after short idle periods.
> > - * @artificial_wakeup: Set if the wakeup has been triggered by a safety net.
> > + * @tick_wakeup: Set if the last wakeup was by the scheduler tick.
> > */
> > struct teo_cpu {
> > s64 sleep_length_ns;
> > struct teo_bin state_bins[CPUIDLE_STATE_MAX];
> > unsigned int total;
> > + unsigned int total_tick;
> > unsigned int tick_intercepts;
> > unsigned int short_idles;
> > - bool artificial_wakeup;
> > + bool tick_wakeup;
> > };
> >
> > static DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct teo_cpu, teo_cpus);
> > @@ -172,9 +174,10 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
> >
> > teo_decay(&cpu_data->short_idles);
> >
> > - if (cpu_data->artificial_wakeup) {
> > + if (dev->poll_time_limit) {
> > + dev->poll_time_limit = false;
> > /*
> > - * If one of the safety nets has triggered, assume that this
> > + * Polling state timeout has triggered, so assume that this
> > * might have been a long sleep.
> > */
> > measured_ns = S64_MAX;
> > @@ -223,6 +226,21 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
> > cpu_data->total = total + PULSE;
> >
> > teo_decay(&cpu_data->tick_intercepts);
> > +
> > + teo_decay(&cpu_data->total_tick);
> > + if (cpu_data->tick_wakeup) {
> > + cpu_data->total_tick += PULSE;
> > + /*
> > + * If tick wakeups dominate the wakeup pattern, count this one
> > + * as a hit on the deepest available idle state to increase the
> > + * likelihood of stopping the tick.
> > + */
> > + if (3 * cpu_data->total_tick > 2 * cpu_data->total) {
> > + cpu_data->state_bins[drv->state_count-1].hits += PULSE;
> > + return;
> > + }
> > + }
> > +
>
> What if this state happens to be disabled?
> If we're walking through the states anyway to find the deepest non-disabled one,
> I think the first non-disabled above TICK_NSEC might be an even better choice?
It actually doesn't matter AFAICS because those hits only come to play in the
if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
check in teo_select() and they are included in cpu_data->total in either case.
> > /*
> > * If the measured idle duration falls into the same bin as the sleep
> > * length, this is a "hit", so update the "hits" metric for that bin.
> > @@ -512,18 +530,9 @@ static void teo_reflect(struct cpuidle_d
> > {
> > struct teo_cpu *cpu_data = per_cpu_ptr(&teo_cpus, dev->cpu);
> >
> > + cpu_data->tick_wakeup = tick_nohz_idle_got_tick();
> > +
> > dev->last_state_idx = state;
> > - if (dev->poll_time_limit ||
> > - (tick_nohz_idle_got_tick() && cpu_data->sleep_length_ns > TICK_NSEC)) {
> > - /*
> > - * The wakeup was not "genuine", but triggered by one of the
> > - * safety nets.
> > - */
> > - dev->poll_time_limit = false;
> > - cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = true;
> > - } else {
> > - cpu_data->artificial_wakeup = false;
> > - }
> > }
>
> The result is definitely still visible, especially looking at the belows, but I'd say
> this is in a reasonable range.
> Tested-by: Christian Loehle <christian.loehle@arm.com>
Thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 14:49 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-14 15:13 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
0 siblings, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-14 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:49 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/14/25 14:15, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 9:33 AM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >>>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >>>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >>>>
> >>>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> >>>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> >>>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> >>>> material:
> >>>>
> >>>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >>>>
> >>>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >>>
> >>> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> >>> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> >>> I’m guessing that’s expected.
> >>>
> >>> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> >>> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> >>> my side this looks great, thank you!
> >>
> >> Good news!
> >
> > So I'm going to queue this up for 6.19 along with the material it depends on.
> >
> > I'd rather not rush it into 6.18-rc7 because it would not get
> > meaningful exposure in linux-next before appearing in the mainline in
> > that case.
>
> Ack
>
> >
> > Reka, I'm going to add your Tested-by: to it, please let me know if
> > there are any concerns regarding that.
> >
> > Now, I think that it needs to go into -stable (6.12+ I suppose?) and
> > I'm going to instruct -stable to pick up the dependencies along with
> > it.
> >
>
> Would be nice to get teo slightly more aligned, agreed!
> As noted I don't think it's 6.12+ only but clearly that's where the
> impact of the issue is the highest.
> Thanks for fixing this!
Anytime!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 15:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-14 15:33 ` Christian Loehle
0 siblings, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-14 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Reka Norman, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/14/25 15:12, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:47 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/13/25 16:56, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
>>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
>>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
>>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
>>>>>
>>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
>>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
>>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>>>
>>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
>>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
>>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
>>> material:
>>>
>>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>>>
>>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
>>> Subject: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
>>>
>>> If the wakeup pattern is clearly dominated by tick wakeups, count those
>>> wakeups as hits on the deepest available idle state to increase the
>>> likelihood of stopping the tick, especially on systems where there are
>>> only 2 usable idle states and the tick can only be stopped when the
>>> deeper state is selected.
>>
>> Maybe a sentence on the consequence that without this we may be ever-stuck in
>> the intercept logic.
>
> Good point, I'll add one.
>
>>>
>>> This change is expected to reduce power on some systems where state 0 is
>>> selected relatively often even though they are almost idle.
>>>
>>
>> Should be a fixes tag, but I think it's a lot earlier than just
>> 4b20b07ce72f ("cpuidle: teo: Don't count non-existent intercepts")
>
> I'll add the Fixes: tag pointing to this because it has exposed the
> issue, but I agree that it was there earlier.
>
>>> Signed-off-by: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>
>>> ---
>>> drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c | 39 ++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------
>>> 1 file changed, 24 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
>>>
>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>> @@ -133,17 +133,19 @@ struct teo_bin {
>>> * @sleep_length_ns: Time till the closest timer event (at the selection time).
>>> * @state_bins: Idle state data bins for this CPU.
>>> * @total: Grand total of the "intercepts" and "hits" metrics for all bins.
>>> + * @total_tick: Wakeups by the scheduler tick.
>>> * @tick_intercepts: "Intercepts" before TICK_NSEC.
>>> * @short_idles: Wakeups after short idle periods.
>>> - * @artificial_wakeup: Set if the wakeup has been triggered by a safety net.
>>> + * @tick_wakeup: Set if the last wakeup was by the scheduler tick.
>>> */
>>> struct teo_cpu {
>>> s64 sleep_length_ns;
>>> struct teo_bin state_bins[CPUIDLE_STATE_MAX];
>>> unsigned int total;
>>> + unsigned int total_tick;
>>> unsigned int tick_intercepts;
>>> unsigned int short_idles;
>>> - bool artificial_wakeup;
>>> + bool tick_wakeup;
>>> };
>>>
>>> static DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct teo_cpu, teo_cpus);
>>> @@ -172,9 +174,10 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
>>>
>>> teo_decay(&cpu_data->short_idles);
>>>
>>> - if (cpu_data->artificial_wakeup) {
>>> + if (dev->poll_time_limit) {
>>> + dev->poll_time_limit = false;
>>> /*
>>> - * If one of the safety nets has triggered, assume that this
>>> + * Polling state timeout has triggered, so assume that this
>>> * might have been a long sleep.
>>> */
>>> measured_ns = S64_MAX;
>>> @@ -223,6 +226,21 @@ static void teo_update(struct cpuidle_dr
>>> cpu_data->total = total + PULSE;
>>>
>>> teo_decay(&cpu_data->tick_intercepts);
>>> +
>>> + teo_decay(&cpu_data->total_tick);
>>> + if (cpu_data->tick_wakeup) {
>>> + cpu_data->total_tick += PULSE;
>>> + /*
>>> + * If tick wakeups dominate the wakeup pattern, count this one
>>> + * as a hit on the deepest available idle state to increase the
>>> + * likelihood of stopping the tick.
>>> + */
>>> + if (3 * cpu_data->total_tick > 2 * cpu_data->total) {
>>> + cpu_data->state_bins[drv->state_count-1].hits += PULSE;
>>> + return;
>>> + }
>>> + }
>>> +
>>
>> What if this state happens to be disabled?
>> If we're walking through the states anyway to find the deepest non-disabled one,
>> I think the first non-disabled above TICK_NSEC might be an even better choice?
>
> It actually doesn't matter AFAICS because those hits only come to play in the
>
> if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>
> check in teo_select() and they are included in cpu_data->total in either case.
Ah right, they will be part of total, not part of idx_hit_sum which is what we want.
Sorry for the noise.
> [snip]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 8:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 14:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-17 5:14 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-17 8:45 ` Christian Loehle
1 sibling, 1 reply; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-17 5:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 7:33 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>>
> >>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>>
> >>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >>
> >> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> >> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> >> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> >> material:
> >>
> >> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >>
> >> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >
> > Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> > about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> > I’m guessing that’s expected.
> >
> > I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> > noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> > my side this looks great, thank you!
>
> Good news!
> For completeness:
>
> Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
>
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> | BIG | 0 | WFI | 957,853 | 2.99% | 2,537 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 163,636 | 0.51% | 21 | 18 | 85.71% | 3 | 14.29% |
> | BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 30,918,285 | 96.50% | 501 | 128 | 25.55% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | BIG | TOTAL | | 32,039,774 | 100.00% | 3,059 | 146 | 4.77% | 3 | 0.10% |
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>
> Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
>
> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> +=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> | LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 8,424,141 | 6.63% | 16,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,121,561 | 8.75% | 485 | 96 | 19.79% | 388 | 80.00% |
> | LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 107,499,073 | 84.62% | 2,705 | 1,001 | 37.01% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | LITTLE | TOTAL | | 127,044,775 | 100.00% | 19,819 | 1,097 | 5.54% | 388 | 1.96% |
> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>
> Per-Cluster deltas: MID
>
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> | MID | 0 | WFI | 2,593,501 | 2.72% | 7,278 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 188,793 | 0.20% | 51 | 48 | 94.12% | 3 | 5.88% |
> | MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 92,616,252 | 97.08% | 605 | 257 | 42.48% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> | MID | TOTAL | | 95,398,546 | 100.00% | 7,934 | 305 | 3.84% | 3 | 0.04% |
> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>
> Out of curiosity:
> Do you know if the platform respects cpuoff / clusteroff distinction
> properly? Is the power difference measurable?
No, I’m not really familiar with the details myself. I’ll check if
others know more. I did a quick test with disabling cpuoff on all
cores, then disabling clusteroff on all cores. The power does seem to
be slightly higher with clusteroff disabled, but the difference is
barely above the noise level so I’m not certain.
> There really is no reason for cpuidle to not autopromote them, if there's no latency
> requirement that would prevent that.
> Especially for the big cluster (just one CPU).
For my understanding, could you explain a bit more what you mean? It’s
already spending a lot less time in cpuoff than clusteroff. Would you
expect to see even less time in cpuoff (and 0 for the big core)?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 9:20 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-17 5:41 ` Reka Norman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-17 5:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9376 bytes --]
On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 8:20 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>>
> >>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>>
> >>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >>
> >> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> >> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> >> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> >> material:
> >>
> >> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >>
> >> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >
> > Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> > about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> > I’m guessing that’s expected.
> >
> > I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> > noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> > my side this looks great, thank you!
>
> Could you share details on the other platform?
> I wasn't able to reproduce your exact behaviour on my systems, so I'd
> still like to close my testing gap here!
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. It’s the same hardware (MT8196) and same
configuration parameters to cpuidle. It’s just different software and
a slightly less idle workload, so I was seeing the effects more
strongly, and the power difference with and without the fix is more
significant. I’ve attached sysfs dumps at mainline for completeness,
but I don’t expect there’s much new information there.
[-- Attachment #2: sysfs_mainline2_before.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24997 bytes --]
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/time:256498500
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state0/usage:159324
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/above:243
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/below:433
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/rejected:3
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/time:4209726
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state1/usage:681
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/above:706
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/desc:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/latency:434
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/name:clusteroff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/rejected:2098900
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/residency:6710
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/time:10977263
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state2/usage:1705
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/desc:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/latency:20000
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/name:s2idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/rejected:7570
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/residency:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/s2idle/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/time:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/state3/usage:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/driver/name:psci_idle
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/above:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/below:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/desc:ARM WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/latency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/name:WFI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/power:4294967295
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/rejected:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/residency:1
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/time:123487900
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state0/usage:73504
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/above:18
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/below:26
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/default_status:enabled
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/desc:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/disable:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/latency:349
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/name:cpuoff-l
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/power:0
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpuidle/state1/rejected:0
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[-- Attachment #3: sysfs_mainline2_after.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 24999 bytes --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-14 14:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 14:49 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-17 5:44 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-17 5:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rafael J. Wysocki; +Cc: Christian Loehle, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Sat, Nov 15, 2025 at 1:16 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 9:33 AM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> > >>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > >>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> > >>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> > >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> > >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [...]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> > >>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> > >>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> > >>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> > >>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> > >>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> > >>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> > >>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> */
> > >>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> > >>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> > >>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> /*
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> > >>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> > >>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> > >>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> > >>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> > >>>>>>>>>> */
> > >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> > >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> > >>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> > >>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> > >>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> > >>>>>>>>>> /*
> > >>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> > >>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> > >>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> > >>>>>>>>> matter what.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> > >>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> > >>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> > >>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> > >>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> > >>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> > >>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> > >>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> > >>>>>>>>> ensues.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> > >>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> > >>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> > >>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> > >>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> > >>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> > >>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> > >>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> > >>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> > >>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> > >>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> > >>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> > >>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> > >>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> > >>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> > >>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> > >>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> > >>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> > >>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> > >>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> > >>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> > >>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> > >>>>
> > >>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> > >>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> > >>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> > >>
> > >> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> > >> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> > >> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> > >> material:
> > >>
> > >> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> > >>
> > >> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> > >
> > > Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> > > about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> > > I’m guessing that’s expected.
> > >
> > > I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> > > noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> > > my side this looks great, thank you!
> >
> > Good news!
>
> So I'm going to queue this up for 6.19 along with the material it depends on.
>
> I'd rather not rush it into 6.18-rc7 because it would not get
> meaningful exposure in linux-next before appearing in the mainline in
> that case.
>
> Reka, I'm going to add your Tested-by: to it, please let me know if
> there are any concerns regarding that.
No concerns, thank you.
And thanks a lot to both of you for the quick investigation and fix,
it’s really appreciated!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-17 5:14 ` Reka Norman
@ 2025-11-17 8:45 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-17 16:29 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-18 0:19 ` Reka Norman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Christian Loehle @ 2025-11-17 8:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reka Norman; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On 11/17/25 05:14, Reka Norman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 7:33 PM Christian Loehle
> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
>>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
>>>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
>>>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
>>>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
>>>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
>>>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
>>>>>>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
>>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
>>>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
>>>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
>>>>>>>>>>> matter what.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
>>>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
>>>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
>>>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
>>>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
>>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
>>>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
>>>>>>>>>>> ensues.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
>>>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
>>>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
>>>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
>>>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
>>>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
>>>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
>>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
>>>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
>>>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
>>>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
>>>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
>>>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
>>>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
>>>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
>>>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
>>>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
>>>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
>>>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
>>>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
>>>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
>>>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
>>>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
>>>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
>>>> material:
>>>>
>>>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
>>>>
>>>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
>>>
>>> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
>>> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
>>> I’m guessing that’s expected.
>>>
>>> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
>>> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
>>> my side this looks great, thank you!
>>
>> Good news!
>> For completeness:
>>
>> Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
>>
>> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
>> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
>> | BIG | 0 | WFI | 957,853 | 2.99% | 2,537 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 163,636 | 0.51% | 21 | 18 | 85.71% | 3 | 14.29% |
>> | BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 30,918,285 | 96.50% | 501 | 128 | 25.55% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | BIG | TOTAL | | 32,039,774 | 100.00% | 3,059 | 146 | 4.77% | 3 | 0.10% |
>> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>>
>> Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
>>
>> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
>> +=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
>> | LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 8,424,141 | 6.63% | 16,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,121,561 | 8.75% | 485 | 96 | 19.79% | 388 | 80.00% |
>> | LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 107,499,073 | 84.62% | 2,705 | 1,001 | 37.01% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | LITTLE | TOTAL | | 127,044,775 | 100.00% | 19,819 | 1,097 | 5.54% | 388 | 1.96% |
>> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>>
>> Per-Cluster deltas: MID
>>
>> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
>> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
>> | MID | 0 | WFI | 2,593,501 | 2.72% | 7,278 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 188,793 | 0.20% | 51 | 48 | 94.12% | 3 | 5.88% |
>> | MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 92,616,252 | 97.08% | 605 | 257 | 42.48% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
>> | MID | TOTAL | | 95,398,546 | 100.00% | 7,934 | 305 | 3.84% | 3 | 0.04% |
>> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
>>
>> Out of curiosity:
>> Do you know if the platform respects cpuoff / clusteroff distinction
>> properly? Is the power difference measurable?
>
> No, I’m not really familiar with the details myself. I’ll check if
> others know more. I did a quick test with disabling cpuoff on all
> cores, then disabling clusteroff on all cores. The power does seem to
> be slightly higher with clusteroff disabled, but the difference is
> barely above the noise level so I’m not certain.
>
>> There really is no reason for cpuidle to not autopromote them, if there's no latency
>> requirement that would prevent that.
>> Especially for the big cluster (just one CPU).
>
> For my understanding, could you explain a bit more what you mean? It’s
> already spending a lot less time in cpuoff than clusteroff. Would you
> expect to see even less time in cpuoff (and 0 for the big core)?
So the clusteroff states for psci in PC mode are exposed per-CPU, like here, but
since it (usually) refers to powering down the voltage rail of that cluster it
requires all CPUs of that cluster to be in the clusteroff state to actually be
entered (kernel is unaware of what state actually happened, only which one it requested).
What's special about your platform though:
The target residency (How long do I need to be in this state for the entering+exiting
to pay off energy-wise) of cpuoff and clusteroff is equal. Therefore if you don't
care about the wakeup latency, clusteroff should be the strictly better choice from a
governor perspective (If a cluster can't be powered off because >=1 CPUs aren't in
clusteroff, the clusteroff-selected CPUs will still go cpuoff).
Additionally the big CPU is (I'm assuming) alone on a cluster, therefore if it doesn't
need the latency requirement it should never go cpuoff, always (actual) clusteroff.
The fact that teo still selects cpuoff is due to much of the logic working on per-state
bins. It's rather an artifact than intended behaviour.
If you wanna experiment you might wanna try running this platform with all cpuoff states
removed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-17 8:45 ` Christian Loehle
@ 2025-11-17 16:29 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-18 0:19 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Rafael J. Wysocki @ 2025-11-17 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Reka Norman, Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Mon, Nov 17, 2025 at 9:45 AM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/17/25 05:14, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 7:33 PM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >>>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >>>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >>>>
> >>>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> >>>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> >>>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> >>>> material:
> >>>>
> >>>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >>>>
> >>>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >>>
> >>> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> >>> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> >>> I’m guessing that’s expected.
> >>>
> >>> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> >>> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> >>> my side this looks great, thank you!
> >>
> >> Good news!
> >> For completeness:
> >>
> >> Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
> >>
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> >> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> >> | BIG | 0 | WFI | 957,853 | 2.99% | 2,537 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 163,636 | 0.51% | 21 | 18 | 85.71% | 3 | 14.29% |
> >> | BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 30,918,285 | 96.50% | 501 | 128 | 25.55% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | BIG | TOTAL | | 32,039,774 | 100.00% | 3,059 | 146 | 4.77% | 3 | 0.10% |
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >>
> >> Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
> >>
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> >> +=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> >> | LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 8,424,141 | 6.63% | 16,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,121,561 | 8.75% | 485 | 96 | 19.79% | 388 | 80.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 107,499,073 | 84.62% | 2,705 | 1,001 | 37.01% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | TOTAL | | 127,044,775 | 100.00% | 19,819 | 1,097 | 5.54% | 388 | 1.96% |
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >>
> >> Per-Cluster deltas: MID
> >>
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> >> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> >> | MID | 0 | WFI | 2,593,501 | 2.72% | 7,278 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 188,793 | 0.20% | 51 | 48 | 94.12% | 3 | 5.88% |
> >> | MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 92,616,252 | 97.08% | 605 | 257 | 42.48% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | MID | TOTAL | | 95,398,546 | 100.00% | 7,934 | 305 | 3.84% | 3 | 0.04% |
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >>
> >> Out of curiosity:
> >> Do you know if the platform respects cpuoff / clusteroff distinction
> >> properly? Is the power difference measurable?
> >
> > No, I’m not really familiar with the details myself. I’ll check if
> > others know more. I did a quick test with disabling cpuoff on all
> > cores, then disabling clusteroff on all cores. The power does seem to
> > be slightly higher with clusteroff disabled, but the difference is
> > barely above the noise level so I’m not certain.
> >
> >> There really is no reason for cpuidle to not autopromote them, if there's no latency
> >> requirement that would prevent that.
> >> Especially for the big cluster (just one CPU).
> >
> > For my understanding, could you explain a bit more what you mean? It’s
> > already spending a lot less time in cpuoff than clusteroff. Would you
> > expect to see even less time in cpuoff (and 0 for the big core)?
>
> So the clusteroff states for psci in PC mode are exposed per-CPU, like here, but
> since it (usually) refers to powering down the voltage rail of that cluster it
> requires all CPUs of that cluster to be in the clusteroff state to actually be
> entered (kernel is unaware of what state actually happened, only which one it requested).
> What's special about your platform though:
> The target residency (How long do I need to be in this state for the entering+exiting
> to pay off energy-wise) of cpuoff and clusteroff is equal. Therefore if you don't
> care about the wakeup latency, clusteroff should be the strictly better choice from a
> governor perspective (If a cluster can't be powered off because >=1 CPUs aren't in
> clusteroff, the clusteroff-selected CPUs will still go cpuoff).
> Additionally the big CPU is (I'm assuming) alone on a cluster, therefore if it doesn't
> need the latency requirement it should never go cpuoff, always (actual) clusteroff.
>
> The fact that teo still selects cpuoff is due to much of the logic working on per-state
> bins. It's rather an artifact than intended behaviour.
I think what happens is that in teo_select(), the main check for the
deepest enabled state selection is false, but the tick has been
stopped, so the governor selects the previous deepest state that
happens to have the same target residency.
It looks like a check against the target residency of the deepest
state should be added there, but I'd prefer to do it on top of
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-pm/2418792.ElGaqSPkdT@rafael.j.wysocki/.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups
2025-11-17 8:45 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-17 16:29 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-18 0:19 ` Reka Norman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Reka Norman @ 2025-11-18 0:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian Loehle; +Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki, daniel.lezcano, linux-pm
On Mon, Nov 17, 2025 at 7:45 PM Christian Loehle
<christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/17/25 05:14, Reka Norman wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 7:33 PM Christian Loehle
> > <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/14/25 04:05, Reka Norman wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2025 at 3:56 AM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, November 13, 2025 4:43:18 PM CET Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>> On 11/12/25 18:33, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>> On 11/12/25 14:16, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 3:03 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/25 13:32, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 6:20 PM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 11:48, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 11:48 AM Christian Loehle
> >>>>>>>>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/25 10:00, Christian Loehle wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I see two issues:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Because of DECAY_SHIFT 3 values < 8 cannot decay (I guess this wouldn't really be an issue without 2))
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Agreed, it should be a non-issue. Nonetheless if this wasn't the case $subject would've likely
> >>>>>>>>>> never been an issue.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, I think that the leftovers can be cleared when they become less than 8.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) isn't an appropriate check, it will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude the state if it its idx_hit_sum make up the vast majority of cpu_data->total (i.e. it would
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a really good candidate actually).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, it would exclude the state if the sum of hits for the states
> >>>>>>>>>>> below it is large enough. This is questionable (because why would
> >>>>>>>>>>> hits matter here), but I attempted to make the change below and
> >>>>>>>>>>> somebody reported a regression IIRC.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This check is related to the problem at hand though (see below).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I lightly tested the below, it seems to be at least comparable to mainline teo.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (the documentation/comments would need adapting too, of course)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> index bfa55c1eab5b..f8f76e3b8364 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * all of the deeper states, a shallower idle state is likely to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * better choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > cpu_data->total - idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * idx_intercept_sum > idx_hit_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> int first_suitable_idx = idx;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ... nevermind the patch, idx_hit_sum is of course the sum of 0...idx-1.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe something like this, again lightly tested:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----8<-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> index 173ddcac540a..6bfb9cedb75e 100644
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/cpuidle/governors/teo.c
> >>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -383,13 +395,15 @@ static int teo_select(struct cpuidle_driver *drv, struct cpuidle_device *dev,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * has been stopped already into account.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> */
> >>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum = 0;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for (i = idx - 1; i >= 0; i--) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> struct teo_bin *bin = &cpu_data->state_bins[i];
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> intercept_sum += bin->intercepts;
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + hit_sum += bin->hits;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - if (2 * intercept_sum > idx_intercept_sum) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> + if (2 * intercept_sum > cpu_data->total || 2 * hit_sum > cpu_data->total) {
> >>>>>>>>>>>> /*
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * Use the current state unless it is too
> >>>>>>>>>>>> * shallow or disabled, in which case take the
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This will only matter after the deepest state has been rejected
> >>>>>>>>>>> already and on the system in question this means selecting state 0 no
> >>>>>>>>>>> matter what.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, right!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The pre-6.12 behavior can be explained if tick wakeups are taken into account.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Namely, when state 0 is chosen (because of the check mentioned above),
> >>>>>>>>>>> the tick is not stopped and the sleep length is KTIME_MAX. If the
> >>>>>>>>>>> subsequent wakeup is a tick one, it will be counted as a hit on the
> >>>>>>>>>>> deepest state (and it will contribute to the total sum in the check
> >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above). Then, at one point, cpu_data->total will be large
> >>>>>>>>>>> enough and the deepest state will become the candidate one. If
> >>>>>>>>>>> tick_nohz_get_sleep_length() returns a large value at that point, the
> >>>>>>>>>>> tick will be stopped and the deepest state will be entered. Nirvana
> >>>>>>>>>>> ensues.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So fundamentally we will have to count tick-wakeups as a) nothing, which
> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't allow us to ever break out of the intercept logic that caused us
> >>>>>>>>>> to leave the tick on b) intercepts, which is bonkers and doesn't allow us
> >>>>>>>>>> to ever break out and c) hits == sleep_length would've been accurate.
> >>>>>>>>>> Of course counting a tick wakeup as a hit for sleep_length negates the
> >>>>>>>>>> intercept logic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Not quite. The intercept logic is there for wakeups other than tick
> >>>>>>>>> wakeups and timer wakeups.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I actually think that tick wakeups can be counted as hits on the
> >>>>>>>>> deepest available state - maybe only when tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern - but generally this is not unreasonable: When the
> >>>>>>>>> wakeup pattern is dominated by tick wakeups, this by itself is a good
> >>>>>>>>> enough reason to stop the tick.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (assuming HZ=1000 below but it doesn't matter)
> >>>>>>>> That will exclude any 'intercept' logic from having much effect if the
> >>>>>>>> avg idle duration is >TICK_NSEC/2, which is potentially still quite a bit
> >>>>>>>> off from state1 residency, like in Reka's case here.
> >>>>>>>> That's why I thought it would cause unreasonable regressions here.
> >>>>>>>> I'll give it a go as well though!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Note that I'd prefer to add a check if tick wakeups dominate the
> >>>>>>> wakeup pattern before setting sleep_length_ns to KTIME_MAX though.
> >>>>>>> I'd first like to know how the Reka's system reacts to the more
> >>>>>>> drastic variant of this change.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Below are my usual tests, it's definitely visible but the impact is limited
> >>>>>> on this platform anyway. I think if we gate the KTIME_MAX setting behind
> >>>>>> the "tick wakeup dominate" it should be acceptable!
> >>>>>> Let's see what Reka reports.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> >>>>> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> >>>>> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
> >>>>
> >>>> Speaking of which, the patch to test is appended below, but it doesn't apply
> >>>> directly on top of the mainline. It is based on some other patches that have
> >>>> been posted recently, so here's a git branch with all of the requisite
> >>>> material:
> >>>>
> >>>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux-pm.git cpuidle-teo-testing
> >>>>
> >>>> Reka, please try this one and let us know how it goes.
> >>>
> >>> Results attached. The residencies are a bit less deep than before -
> >>> about 4.5% in WFI vs 2% at 6.6 or with the more aggressive patch. But
> >>> I’m guessing that’s expected.
> >>>
> >>> I also measured the power on a slightly different system where I first
> >>> noticed this regression, and it’s indistinguishable from 6.6. So from
> >>> my side this looks great, thank you!
> >>
> >> Good news!
> >> For completeness:
> >>
> >> Per-Cluster deltas: BIG
> >>
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> >> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> >> | BIG | 0 | WFI | 957,853 | 2.99% | 2,537 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | BIG | 1 | cpuoff-b | 163,636 | 0.51% | 21 | 18 | 85.71% | 3 | 14.29% |
> >> | BIG | 2 | clusteroff-b | 30,918,285 | 96.50% | 501 | 128 | 25.55% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | BIG | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | BIG | TOTAL | | 32,039,774 | 100.00% | 3,059 | 146 | 4.77% | 3 | 0.10% |
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >>
> >> Per-Cluster deltas: LITTLE
> >>
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> >> +=========+=======+==============+=============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> >> | LITTLE | 0 | WFI | 8,424,141 | 6.63% | 16,629 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | 1 | cpuoff-l | 11,121,561 | 8.75% | 485 | 96 | 19.79% | 388 | 80.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | 2 | clusteroff-l | 107,499,073 | 84.62% | 2,705 | 1,001 | 37.01% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | LITTLE | TOTAL | | 127,044,775 | 100.00% | 19,819 | 1,097 | 5.54% | 388 | 1.96% |
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+-------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >>
> >> Per-Cluster deltas: MID
> >>
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >> | cluster | state | name | timeΔ | time% | usageΔ | aboveΔ | above% | belowΔ | below% |
> >> +=========+=======+==============+============+=========+========+========+=========+========+=========+
> >> | MID | 0 | WFI | 2,593,501 | 2.72% | 7,278 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | MID | 1 | cpuoff-m | 188,793 | 0.20% | 51 | 48 | 94.12% | 3 | 5.88% |
> >> | MID | 2 | clusteroff-m | 92,616,252 | 97.08% | 605 | 257 | 42.48% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | MID | 3 | s2idle | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | 0.00% |
> >> | MID | TOTAL | | 95,398,546 | 100.00% | 7,934 | 305 | 3.84% | 3 | 0.04% |
> >> +---------+-------+--------------+------------+---------+--------+--------+---------+--------+---------+
> >>
> >> Out of curiosity:
> >> Do you know if the platform respects cpuoff / clusteroff distinction
> >> properly? Is the power difference measurable?
> >
> > No, I’m not really familiar with the details myself. I’ll check if
> > others know more. I did a quick test with disabling cpuoff on all
> > cores, then disabling clusteroff on all cores. The power does seem to
> > be slightly higher with clusteroff disabled, but the difference is
> > barely above the noise level so I’m not certain.
> >
> >> There really is no reason for cpuidle to not autopromote them, if there's no latency
> >> requirement that would prevent that.
> >> Especially for the big cluster (just one CPU).
> >
> > For my understanding, could you explain a bit more what you mean? It’s
> > already spending a lot less time in cpuoff than clusteroff. Would you
> > expect to see even less time in cpuoff (and 0 for the big core)?
>
> So the clusteroff states for psci in PC mode are exposed per-CPU, like here, but
> since it (usually) refers to powering down the voltage rail of that cluster it
> requires all CPUs of that cluster to be in the clusteroff state to actually be
> entered (kernel is unaware of what state actually happened, only which one it requested).
> What's special about your platform though:
> The target residency (How long do I need to be in this state for the entering+exiting
> to pay off energy-wise) of cpuoff and clusteroff is equal. Therefore if you don't
> care about the wakeup latency, clusteroff should be the strictly better choice from a
> governor perspective (If a cluster can't be powered off because >=1 CPUs aren't in
> clusteroff, the clusteroff-selected CPUs will still go cpuoff).
> Additionally the big CPU is (I'm assuming) alone on a cluster, therefore if it doesn't
> need the latency requirement it should never go cpuoff, always (actual) clusteroff.
>
> The fact that teo still selects cpuoff is due to much of the logic working on per-state
> bins. It's rather an artifact than intended behaviour.
> If you wanna experiment you might wanna try running this platform with all cpuoff states
> removed.
Thanks for the explanation, that all makes sense. FWIW, a colleague
shared that in their experience the power difference between cpuoff
and clusteroff is measurable, at least for the middle cores. So I’ll
try experimenting with that. Thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
* RE: Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12
2025-11-13 15:43 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-13 16:56 ` [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups Rafael J. Wysocki
@ 2025-11-19 22:43 ` Doug Smythies
1 sibling, 0 replies; 48+ messages in thread
From: Doug Smythies @ 2025-11-19 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Christian Loehle'
Cc: 'Reka Norman', daniel.lezcano, linux-pm, Doug Smythies,
'Rafael J. Wysocki'
Hi Christian,
This email is about testing as opposed to about the subject and patches.
Specifically, the " adrestia" test.
On 2025.11.13 07:43 Christian wrote:
...
> Forgot to post the full results, anyway as expected with mtdblock (a very slow
> / low frequent wakeup scenario) the impact becomes clearly visible.
> Still hopeful that the more conservative approach will be acceptable!
...
> test gov i score %change idles idle_miss miss_rt belows aboves
...
> adrestia teo-m 0 8 0 103680 21 0.000 19 2 <<<<
> adrestia teo-m 1 12 50 104026 31 0.000 16 15
> adrestia teo-m 2 12 50 104063 32 0.000 24 8
> adrestia teo-m 3 12 50 104768 44 0.000 22 22
> adrestia teo-m 4 12 50 104388 18 0.000 16 2
> adrestia teo-patch 0 12 50 103096 67 0.001 65 2
> adrestia teo-patch 1 12 50 103128 57 0.001 49 8
> adrestia teo-patch 2 8 0 102812 78 0.001 72 6 <<<<
> adrestia teo-patch 3 12 50 102990 60 0.001 55 5
> adrestia teo-patch 4 12 50 103168 24 0.000 24 0
...
I am curious about the significant variations between iterations for your
adrestia test. And what does "score" mean for this test?
I don't know if we are running the exact same test [1], but my "score" means
wakeup cost (periodic, 20us), and for the 6.18-rc4 kernel is around 2.7 uSec,
independent of the various patches or teo verses menu governors.
My results are very repeatable.
With kernel 6.13 I was getting 3.3 uSec, but I suspect the differences
have more to do with other kernel changes than any idle governor changes.
My typical testing command line is:
./adrestia -a 20 -l 2000000 -t 500 wakeup-periodic
Where:
-a arrival time (microseconds) << Only used for periodic test, sleep time. Actually arrival rate.
-l number of loops
-L list tests << wakeup-periodic and wakeup-single
-s service time (microseconds) << This has not been implemented.
-t thread count
Those run parameters give a reasonable amount of idle time using
both idle states 0 and 1.
[1] It is likely we are not running the exact same test, since I converted the
source code I use from uSec to nSec. Notes to myself from a couple of
years ago suggest that I am using the version from [2] and that the version
from [3] does not compile (at least for me).
[2] https://github.com/notcarbide/adrestia
[3] https://github.com/mfleming/adrestia
... Doug
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 48+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2025-11-19 22:43 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 48+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2025-11-04 3:36 Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12 Reka Norman
2025-11-04 9:03 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-04 23:24 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-05 6:22 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-05 22:47 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-06 15:21 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-05 20:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-06 11:13 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-06 20:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-07 3:28 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-07 11:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-09 20:35 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-10 6:10 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-10 12:06 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-11 4:23 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-11 10:00 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-11 10:48 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-11 11:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-11 17:20 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 9:51 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 13:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 14:14 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 14:23 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 13:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 14:03 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-12 14:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-12 18:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-13 15:43 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-13 16:56 ` [PATCH v1] cpuidle: governors: teo: Rework the handling of tick wakeups Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 4:05 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 8:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 14:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 14:49 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 15:13 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-17 5:44 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-17 5:14 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-17 8:45 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-17 16:29 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-18 0:19 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 9:20 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-17 5:41 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-14 14:47 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-14 15:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-14 15:33 ` Christian Loehle
2025-11-19 22:43 ` Regression in TEO cpuidle governor between 6.6 and 6.12 Doug Smythies
2025-11-13 5:13 ` Reka Norman
2025-11-13 10:52 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-10 20:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
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