Re: Nested suspends; messages vs. states

[Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh-XVmvHMARGAS8U2dJNN8I7kB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>]

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On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 22:31 -0800, David Brownell wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 March 2005 10:02 pm, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> > 
> > > That's a different example though:  you've given the host controller
> > > flexibility.  You have _not_ hogtied it.
> > > 
> > > The model we seem to be aiming towards in USB land is a bit different
> > > than that though.  When autosuspend is the goal, it bubbles up from
> > > the bottom ... nodes (like HC) don't force children into idle, they
> > > wait for the children to idle themselves and then take the opportunity
> > > to snooze themselves.  That's a model with wide applicability...
> > 
> > It is, though it requires every children driver to have an idle
> > mecanism ... do you think that will work in practice ?
> 
> When autosuspend is the goal, they'll implement it.  Otherwise it's
> not a goal, so not having it will not matter at all.  And for leaf
> node drivers, it's not at all tricky.  :)

Still... it means a usage timer etc... on every device ... I just happen
to quite like the idea of the host controller "noticing" no URBs were
used so far :) Also, what about devices with no driver attached (nor
userland drivers) ?
 
> It matters for example with mice on laptops.  I'm told that Intel
> has measured and found that autosuspending mouse, then root hub
> lets Centrino enter the C3 state, saving 2 Watts of power.  Which
> can be rather significant savings...

It is, though I have no idea what C3 is ... But suspending root hub
definitely stops the hcca updates, so lets the CPU and host bridge rest,
so it's definitely a good thing. I should measure that on my laptop one
of these days. It's especially interesting on those new pmac laptops
with internal bluetooth as it's basically preventing auto-suspend of the
root hub currently (until there is that idle suspend mecanism
implemented, wether it is at the ohci level or at the bluetooth
level)... oh and the newest ones also have USB keyboards and
trackpads ... 

> There are other strategies too, like having some external component
> try to decide things.  Maybe even users.  Every strategy has plus
> and minus points.  One nice thing about autosuspend is that the
> user interface is all but nonexistent.  Also, most users are already
> trained to expect such mechanisms elsewhere.

Yup.

-- 
Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh-XVmvHMARGAS8U2dJNN8I7kB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>


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