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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com>
Cc: "Herbert Xu" <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Ingo Molnar" <mingo@redhat.com>,
	"H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Josh Poimboeuf" <jpoimboe@redhat.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Matthias Kaehlcke" <mka@chromium.org>,
	"Boris Ostrovsky" <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	"Juergen Gross" <jgross@suse.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>,
	"Joerg Roedel" <joro@8bytes.org>,
	"Tom Lendacky" <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"Borislav Petkov" <bp@suse.de>, "Brian Gerst" <brgerst@gmail.com>,
	"Kirill A . Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	"Len Brown" <len.brown@intel.com>, "Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	"Tejun Heo" <tj@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 17:59:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170921155919.skpyt7dutod5ul4t@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJcbSZH6hwaWKrvUZR33ExYaZaWKMSv4tJJA3yZkniLvLbTFMw@mail.gmail.com>


( Sorry about the delay in answering this. I could blame the delay on the merge 
  window, but in reality I've been procrastinating this is due to the permanent,
  non-trivial impact PIE has on generated C code. )

* Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com> wrote:

> 1) PIE sometime needs two instructions to represent a single
> instruction on mcmodel=kernel.

What again is the typical frequency of this occurring in an x86-64 defconfig 
kernel, with the very latest GCC?

Also, to make sure: which unwinder did you use for your measurements, 
frame-pointers or ORC? Please use ORC only for future numbers, as
frame-pointers is obsolete from a performance measurement POV.

> 2) GCC does not optimize switches in PIE in order to reduce relocations:

Hopefully this can either be fixed in GCC or at least influenced via a compiler 
switch in the future.

> The switches are the biggest increase on small functions but I don't
> think they represent a large portion of the difference (number 1 is).

Ok.

> A side note, while testing gcc 7.2.0 on hackbench I have seen the PIE
> kernel being faster by 1% across multiple runs (comparing 50 runs done
> across 5 reboots twice). I don't think PIE is faster than a
> mcmodel=kernel but recent versions of gcc makes them fairly similar.

So I think we are down to an overhead range where the inherent noise (both random 
and systematic one) in 'hackbench' overwhelms the signal we are trying to measure.

So I think it's the kernel .text size change that is the best noise-free proxy for 
the overhead impact of PIE.

It doesn't hurt to double check actual real performance as well, just don't expect 
there to be much of a signal for anything but fully cached microbenchmark 
workloads.

Thanks,

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-21 15:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-10 17:25 x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 01/23] x86/crypto: Adapt assembly for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 02/23] x86: Use symbol name on bug table " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 03/23] x86: Use symbol name in jump " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 04/23] x86: Add macro to get symbol address " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 05/23] xen: Adapt assembly " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 06/23] kvm: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:25 ` [RFC v2 07/23] x86: relocate_kernel - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 08/23] x86/entry/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 09/23] x86: pm-trace - " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 10/23] x86/CPU: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 11/23] x86/acpi: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 12/23] x86/boot/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 13/23] x86/power/64: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:36   ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-11 15:09     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 14/23] x86/paravirt: " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 15/23] x86/boot/64: Use _text in a global " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 16/23] x86/percpu: Adapt percpu " Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 17/23] compiler: Option to default to hidden symbols Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 18/23] x86/relocs: Handle DYN relocations for PIE support Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 19/23] x86: Support global stack cookie Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 20/23] x86/pie: Add option to build the kernel as PIE for x86_64 Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 21/23] x86/relocs: Add option to generate 64-bit relocations Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 22/23] x86/module: Add support for mcmodel large and PLTs Thomas Garnier
2017-08-10 17:26 ` [RFC v2 23/23] x86/kaslr: Add option to extend KASLR range from 1GB to 3GB Thomas Garnier
2017-08-11 12:41 ` x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization Ingo Molnar
2017-08-11 15:09   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15  7:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-15 14:20       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-15 14:47         ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-15 14:58           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-16 15:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-16 16:09           ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-16 16:26           ` Daniel Micay
2017-08-16 16:32             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-08-16 16:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-17  8:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17 14:10               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:13                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-24 21:42                   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-08-25 15:35                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-25  1:07                   ` Steven Rostedt
2017-08-25  8:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-25 15:05                     ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-29 19:34                       ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 15:59                         ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2017-09-21 16:10                           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2017-09-21 21:21                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  4:24                               ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2017-09-22 14:38                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 23:55                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-21 21:16                           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22  0:06                             ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 16:32                             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-22 18:08                               ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:43                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-02 20:28                                   ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-22 18:38                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:57                                 ` Kees Cook
2017-09-22 19:06                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-22 18:59                                 ` Thomas Garnier
2017-09-23  9:49                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-17 14:12               ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-25 15:38                 ` Christopher Lameter
2017-08-27 22:39                   ` Boris Lukashev
2017-08-28  9:59                 ` Pavel Machek
2017-08-21 13:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 14:28             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-09-22 18:27               ` H. Peter Anvin
2017-09-23 10:00                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-09-24 22:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2017-09-25  7:33                     ` Ingo Molnar
2017-10-06 10:39                       ` Pavel Machek
2017-10-20  8:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-08-21 14:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-08-21 15:57           ` Thomas Garnier
2017-08-28  1:26           ` H. Peter Anvin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-10-04 21:19 Thomas Garnier
2017-07-18 22:33 Thomas Garnier
2017-07-19 14:08 ` Christopher Lameter

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