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From: Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@linaro.org>
To: Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>
Cc: linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"rjw@rjwysocki.net" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Nicolas Pitre <nicolas.pitre@linaro.org>,
	"linux-pm@vger.kernel.org" <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Alex Shi <alex.shi@linaro.org>,
	Morten Rasmussen <morten.rasmussen@arm.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCHC 0/3] sched/idle : find the idlest cpu with cpuidle info
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 09:43:57 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <533A6E3D.4040002@linaro.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKfTPtBiFUM90igrhz=VnvSkt9MQ2E-xxnzDf=wSKdK+qA4EQA@mail.gmail.com>

On 04/01/2014 09:16 AM, Vincent Guittot wrote:
> On 31 March 2014 17:55, Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@linaro.org> wrote:
>> On 03/31/2014 03:52 PM, Vincent Guittot wrote:
>>>
>>> On 28 March 2014 13:29, Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@linaro.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The following patchset provides an interaction between cpuidle and the
>>>> scheduler.
>>>>
>>>> The first patch encapsulate the needed information for the scheduler in a
>>>> separate cpuidle structure. The second one stores the pointer to this
>>>> structure
>>>> when entering idle. The third one, use this information to take the
>>>> decision to
>>>> find the idlest cpu.
>>>>
>>>> After some basic testing with hackbench, it appears there is an
>>>> improvement for
>>>> the performances (small) and for the duration of the idle states (which
>>>> provides
>>>> a better power saving).
>>>>
>>>> The measurement has been done with the 'idlestat' tool previously posted
>>>> in this
>>>> mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> So the benefit is good for both sides performance and power saving.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> I have looked at your results and i'm a bit surprised that you have so
>>> much time in C-state with a test that involved 400 tasks on a dual
>>> cores HT system. You shouldn't have any CPUs in idle state when
>>> running hackbench; the total time of core0state in C7-IVB is
>>> 87932131.00(us), which is quite huge for a bench that runs 44sec. Or
>>> i'm doing something wrong in the interpretation of the results ?
>>
>>
>> No, actually I mixed the output of hackbench without being run with idlestat
>> or with idlestat.
>>
>> The hackbench's results below are without idlestat.
>>
>> The idlestat results are consistent and effectively it adds a non
>> negligeable overhead as it impacts the hackbench results.
>>
>> So to summarize, hackbench has been run 4 times.
>>
>> 1, 2 : without idlestat, with and without the patchset - hackbench results
>> ~42 secs
>>
>> 3, 4 : with idlestat, with and without the patchset - hackbench results ~87
>> secs
>>
>> At the first the glance, the results are consistent but I will double check
>> them.
>>
>> Do you have a suggestion for a benchmarking program ?
>
> We are working on a bench which can generate middle load pattern with
> idle CPUs but it's not available yet. In the mean time, one bench that
> plays with idle time is cyclictest, it will not give you performance
> results but only scheduling latency which might be what you are
> looking for.

Yeah, thanks. I believe I know what is in the rt-tests package :)

What I meant is what kind of values would you like to see with this 
patchset ?



>>>> The select_idle_sibling could be also improved in the same way.
>>>>
>>>> ====================== test with hackbench 3.14-rc8
>>>> =========================
>>>>
>>>> /usr/bin/hackbench -l 10000 -s 4096
>>>>
>>>> Running in process mode with 10 groups using 40 file descriptors each (==
>>>> 400 tasks)
>>>> Each sender will pass 10000 messages of 4096 bytes
>>>>
>>>> Time: 44.433
>>>>
>>>> Total trace buffer: 1846688 kB
>>>> clusterA@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>     core0@state   hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>           POLL    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1E-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C3-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C6-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C7-IVB  1396        87932131.00        62988.63 0.00
>>>> 320146.00
>>>>       cpu0@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 1                 14.00           14.00 14.00   14.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 1                262.00          262.00 262.00  262.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 1180        87938177.00        74523.88 1.00
>>>> 320147.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu0 wakeups        name            count
>>>>            irq009 acpi            1
>>>>       cpu1@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 475         87941356.00       185139.70 322.00
>>>> 1500690.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu1 wakeups        name            count
>>>>            irq009 acpi            3
>>>>     core1@state   hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>           POLL    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1E-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C3-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C6-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C7-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu2@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 11            288157.00        26196.09 16.00
>>>> 200060.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 6             221601.00        36933.50 79.00
>>>> 200066.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 950         87417466.00        92018.39 19.00
>>>> 200074.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   2                 34.00           17.00 11.00   23.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    745            18800.00           25.23 2.00    156.00
>>>>       cpu2 wakeups        name            count
>>>>            irq019 ahci            50
>>>>            irq009 acpi            17
>>>>       cpu3@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu3 wakeups        name            count
>>>>
>>>> ================ test with hackbench 3.14-rc8 + patchset
>>>> ====================
>>>>
>>>> /usr/bin/hackbench -l 10000 -s 4096
>>>>
>>>> Running in process mode with 10 groups using 40 file descriptors each (==
>>>> 400 tasks)
>>>> Each sender will pass 10000 messages of 4096 bytes
>>>>
>>>> Time: 42.179
>>>>
>>>> Total trace buffer: 1846688 kB
>>>> clusterA@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>     core0@state   hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>           POLL    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1E-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C3-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C6-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C7-IVB  880         89157590.00       101315.44 0.00
>>>> 400184.00
>>>>       cpu0@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 1                233.00          233.00 233.00  233.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 1                260.00          260.00 260.00  260.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 700         89162006.00       127374.29 182.00
>>>> 400187.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu0 wakeups        name            count
>>>>            irq009 acpi            2
>>>>       cpu1@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 334         89164805.00       266960.49 1.00
>>>> 1500677.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu1 wakeups        name            count
>>>>            irq009 acpi            6
>>>>     core1@state   hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>           POLL    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C1E-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C3-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C6-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>           C7-IVB  0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu2@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 19           2169047.00       114160.37 18.00
>>>> 999129.00
>>>>            C1E-IB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 376         86993307.00       231365.18 20.00
>>>> 1500682.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu2 wakeups        name            count
>>>>            irq009 acpi            32
>>>>            irq019 ahci            45
>>>>       cpu3@state  hits          total(us)         avg(us) min(us) max(us)
>>>>            POLL   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C1E-VB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C3-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C6-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            C7-IVB 0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1701   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1700   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1600   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1500   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1400   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1300   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1200   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1100   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            1000   0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            900    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            800    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>            782    0                  0.00            0.00 0.00    0.00
>>>>       cpu3 wakeups        name            count
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Lezcano (3):
>>>>     cpuidle: encapsulate power info in a separate structure
>>>>     idle: store the idle state the cpu is
>>>>     sched/fair: use the idle state info to choose the idlest cpu
>>>>
>>>>    arch/arm/include/asm/cpuidle.h       |    6 +-
>>>>    arch/arm/mach-exynos/cpuidle.c       |    4 +-
>>>>    drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c        |    4 +-
>>>>    drivers/base/power/domain.c          |    6 +-
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-at91.c       |    4 +-
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-big_little.c |    9 +--
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-calxeda.c    |    6 +-
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-kirkwood.c   |    4 +-
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-powernv.c    |    8 +--
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-pseries.c    |   12 ++--
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-ux500.c      |   14 ++---
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/cpuidle-zynq.c       |    4 +-
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/driver.c             |    6 +-
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/governors/ladder.c   |   14 +++--
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/governors/menu.c     |    8 +--
>>>>    drivers/cpuidle/sysfs.c              |    2 +-
>>>>    drivers/idle/intel_idle.c            |  112
>>>> +++++++++++++++++-----------------
>>>>    include/linux/cpuidle.h              |   10 ++-
>>>>    kernel/sched/fair.c                  |   46 ++++++++++++--
>>>>    kernel/sched/idle.c                  |   17 +++++-
>>>>    kernel/sched/sched.h                 |    5 ++
>>>>    21 files changed, 180 insertions(+), 121 deletions(-)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 1.7.9.5
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>   <http://www.linaro.org/> Linaro.org │ Open source software for ARM SoCs
>>
>> Follow Linaro:  <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Linaro> Facebook |
>> <http://twitter.com/#!/linaroorg> Twitter |
>> <http://www.linaro.org/linaro-blog/> Blog
>>


-- 
  <http://www.linaro.org/> Linaro.org │ Open source software for ARM SoCs

Follow Linaro:  <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Linaro> Facebook |
<http://twitter.com/#!/linaroorg> Twitter |
<http://www.linaro.org/linaro-blog/> Blog


  reply	other threads:[~2014-04-01  7:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-03-28 12:29 [RFC PATCHC 0/3] sched/idle : find the idlest cpu with cpuidle info Daniel Lezcano
2014-03-28 12:29 ` [RFC PATCHC 1/3] cpuidle: encapsulate power info in a separate structure Daniel Lezcano
2014-03-28 18:17   ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-03-28 20:42     ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-03-29  0:00       ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-03-28 12:29 ` [RFC PATCHC 2/3] idle: store the idle state the cpu is Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-15 12:43   ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-15 12:44     ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-15 14:17       ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-15 14:33         ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-15 14:39           ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-03-28 12:29 ` [RFC PATCHC 3/3] sched/fair: use the idle state info to choose the idlest cpu Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-02  3:05   ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-04 11:57     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-04-04 16:56       ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-05  2:01         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-04-17 13:53     ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-17 14:47       ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-17 15:03         ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-18  8:09           ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-18  8:36             ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-17 15:53       ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-17 16:05         ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-17 16:21           ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-18  9:38             ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-18 12:13               ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-18 12:53                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-18 13:04                   ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-18 16:00                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-15 13:03   ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-03-31 13:52 ` [RFC PATCHC 0/3] sched/idle : find the idlest cpu with cpuidle info Vincent Guittot
2014-03-31 15:55   ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-01  7:16     ` Vincent Guittot
2014-04-01  7:43       ` Daniel Lezcano [this message]
2014-04-01  9:05         ` Vincent Guittot
2014-04-15 13:13           ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-01 23:01 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-04-02  3:14   ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-04 11:43     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-04-15 13:17       ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-15 13:25       ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-15 15:27         ` Nicolas Pitre
2014-04-15 15:33         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-04-02  8:26   ` Daniel Lezcano
2014-04-04 11:23     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-04-04  6:29 ` Len Brown
2014-04-04  8:16   ` Daniel Lezcano

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