Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
talks associated to Power Management Constraints.

The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.

If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
definition is mostly finished.

I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
mode.

>From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
throttling.

As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
2) avoiding peak current
3) extending battery life in active use cases

I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
participate in this micro-conference.

I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
constraining the performance or throttling is needed.

2) high level design brain storming.

If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.

Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.

Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come up
with a good design to implement in the process.

thanks,
--mark

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

On Wed, May 02, 2012 at 07:36:10AM -0700, mark gross wrote:
> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
> 
> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
> 
> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> definition is mostly finished.
> 
> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> mode.
> 
> From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> throttling.
> 
> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> 2) avoiding peak current
> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
> 
> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> participate in this micro-conference.
> 
> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
> 
> 2) high level design brain storming.
> 
> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
> 
> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
> 
> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come up
> with a good design to implement in the process.

I forgot to make clear a few things specific to the Plumbers conference.
1) they need proposals by mid may
2) if you want financial assistance to be part of this micro-conf you
need to ask the conference committee and I think I need to recommend you
as an important participant.  --- Paul, can you clarify this?

If we don't get a critical mass as determined by the conference
committee we can try again / do more stuff over email.  BTW we should be
doing more of anyway.

--mark


> thanks,
> --mark
> 

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Antti P Miettinen]

mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> writes:
> I forgot to make clear a few things specific to the Plumbers conference.
> 1) they need proposals by mid may
> 2) if you want financial assistance to be part of this micro-conf you
> need to ask the conference committee and I think I need to recommend you
> as an important participant.  --- Paul, can you clarify this?
>
> If we don't get a critical mass as determined by the conference
> committee we can try again / do more stuff over email.  BTW we should be
> doing more of anyway.
>
> --mark

Not being familiar with LPC format - does LPC expect just a presentation
or should there be also a "paper"? I just registered a blueprint at

	https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lpc/+spec/lpc2012-cf-tegra

Is the format OK for a proposal?

	--Antti

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:43:21AM +0300, Antti P Miettinen wrote:
> mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> writes:
> > I forgot to make clear a few things specific to the Plumbers conference.
> > 1) they need proposals by mid may
> > 2) if you want financial assistance to be part of this micro-conf you
> > need to ask the conference committee and I think I need to recommend you
> > as an important participant.  --- Paul, can you clarify this?
> >
> > If we don't get a critical mass as determined by the conference
> > committee we can try again / do more stuff over email.  BTW we should be
> > doing more of anyway.
> >
> > --mark
> 
> Not being familiar with LPC format - does LPC expect just a presentation
> or should there be also a "paper"? I just registered a blueprint at
> 
> 	https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lpc/+spec/lpc2012-cf-tegra
> 
> Is the format OK for a proposal?

That looks good to me.  But, Paul would be right person to confirm.
Please be sure to give equal time to the problem statement as well as
your implementation in the presentation. Depending on time constraints,
TBD, you may need to trim back on the talk or not.

The time per talk depends on how much participation we get.

--mark

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Kevin Hilman]

Hi Mark,

mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> writes:

> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
>
> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>
> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> definition is mostly finished.

Thanks for organizing this.

I won't be at Plumbers this year (I'll be on vacation), but will
certainly participate by email as I have an interest in these topics.

I've added Jean Pihet to Cc as he is also working on QoS/constraints
related topics.

Kevin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Kevin Hilman]

Hi Mark,

mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> writes:

> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
>
> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>
> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> definition is mostly finished.

Thanks for organizing this.

I won't be at Plumbers this year (I'll be on vacation), but will
certainly participate by email as I have an interest in these topics.

I've added Jean Pihet to Cc as he is also working on QoS/constraints
related topics.

Kevin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Jean Pihet]

Hi Mark,

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 4:36 PM, mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> wrote:
> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
That looks great! I hope some progress can be made in the area of the
constraints frameworks design.

> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>
> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> definition is mostly finished.
I can have something about the per-device PM QoS, starting from the
ELC presentation [1], the current status and the next steps.

[1] https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference/pihet
The slides can be found at
https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lf_elc12_pihet.pdf.

I am looking at the travel arrangements and will confirm asap.

> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> mode.
An agreement is needed on the APIs, especially for the user space.

>
> From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> throttling.
>
> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> 2) avoiding peak current
> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
>
> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> participate in this micro-conference.
>
> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
>
> 2) high level design brain storming.
>
> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
>
> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
>
> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come up
> with a good design to implement in the process.
>
> thanks,
> --mark

Thanks for organizing!

Regards,
Jean

>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-pm mailing list
> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 09:02:02AM +0200, Jean Pihet wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 4:36 PM, mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> wrote:
> > This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> > Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> > reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> > talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
> That looks great! I hope some progress can be made in the area of the
> constraints frameworks design.
> 
> > The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> > over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
> >
> > If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> > performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> > submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> > solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> > upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> > some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> > definition is mostly finished.
> I can have something about the per-device PM QoS, starting from the
> ELC presentation [1], the current status and the next steps.
> 
> [1] https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference/pihet
> The slides can be found at
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lf_elc12_pihet.pdf.
> 
> I am looking at the travel arrangements and will confirm asap.
> 
> > I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> > mode.
> An agreement is needed on the APIs, especially for the user space.
> 
> >
> > From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
> > limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> > throttling.
> >
> > As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> > 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> > 2) avoiding peak current
> > 3) extending battery life in active use cases
> >
> > I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> > participate in this micro-conference.
> >
> > I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> > 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> > constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
> >
> > 2) high level design brain storming.
> >
> > If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
> > interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
> >
> > Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
> > alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
> > of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
> >
> > Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
> > with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
> > past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
> > least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come up
> > with a good design to implement in the process.
> >
> > thanks,
> > --mark
> 
> Thanks for organizing!
>
I think it will be a good discussion and hopefully we'll make progress
all around on this topic.

BTW I'm sorry for mutilating your name and email in my original
posting.

--mark

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Valentin, Eduardo]

Hello Mark,

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> wrote:
> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.

Nice! Thanks for proposing this.

>
> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>
> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> definition is mostly finished.
>
> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> mode.
>
> From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> throttling.
>
> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> 2) avoiding peak current
> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
>
> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> participate in this micro-conference.
>
> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.


I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
junction temperature management.

I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
confirming soon.


>
> 2) high level design brain storming.
>
> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
>
> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
>
> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come up
> with a good design to implement in the process.
>
> thanks,
> --mark
>


All best,
-- 

Eduardo Valentin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 10:17:19AM +0300, Valentin, Eduardo wrote:
> Hello Mark,
> 
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> wrote:
> > This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> > Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> > reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> > talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
> 
> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
> 
> >
> > The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> > over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
> >
> > If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> > performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> > submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> > solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> > upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> > some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> > definition is mostly finished.
> >
> > I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> > mode.
> >
> > From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
> > limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> > throttling.
> >
> > As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> > 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> > 2) avoiding peak current
> > 3) extending battery life in active use cases
> >
> > I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> > participate in this micro-conference.
> >
> > I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> > 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> > constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
> 
> 
> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
> junction temperature management.
> 

This will be great!  Getting the common / typical use cases well
represented is the highest priority of the session IMO.

Having a solid understanding of them will drive the requirements and
hopefully make defining the architecture quick, easy and without a lot of
conflicting points of view.

--mark

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Jean Pihet]

Hi!

Here is my proposal for the PM constraints micro-conf RFP, as e-mailed today:

Session title: A New Model for the System and Devices Latency

Name of microconference (if applicable): PM constraints micro-conf,
led by Mark Gross

Abstract:
 Due to the nature of the new SoC architectures the Power Management
needs a new model for the various system latencies. The talk presents:
  . the concepts of system, devices, wake-up and resume latencies,
  . the recent changes in the devices framework for the latency, why
and how to make it generic,
  . the link with the other PM QoS frameworks: thermal, cpuidle,
  . the recent changes in the ARM/OMAP platform code for the system latency,
  . the problems encountered while modelling and measuring the
various latencies,
  . a proposal on the model and on the way to implement it,
  . the planned changes in the device framework, the platform code
and the APIs.

 This talk is oriented towards Linux power management developers. The
goal is to agree on a framework implementation and the interfaces
within the kernel and with the user space.

Experience:
Jean Pihet, NewOldBits.com

Jean Pihet is working with embedded Linux since many years now, for
companies like Texas Instruments, MontaVista, Motorola and Philips.
Recently NewOldBits.com has been founded to provide high quality
consulting services. The area of work is mainly OMAP Power Management,
tracing and profiling tools (perf, ftrace, oprofile...) for recent ARM
cores.

Kind regards,
Jean

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
<eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
> FYI,
>
> I will submit later today, something like this:
> "
> Abstract
>
> The thermal challenge is to design an end-product with high
> performance while keeping the junction temperature of the IC
> components used on this product within their limitations and which
> does not present a thermal discomfort for the user. OMAP4/OMAP5 System
> on Chips, operating at highest Operating Performance Points (OPP), is
> a powerful mobile applications processor. However operating at higher
> voltage and higher frequency in a sustained manner may cause thermal
> limits to be exceeded, both for silicon and user comfort. We propose a
> new framework to model per device power constraints, for containment
> of thermal limitations across major heat sources of a end-product
> device, e.g. LCD, CPU, charging, etc. The framework shall facilitate
> the power and thermal management performed by governor and policies,
> depending on device context and use case knowledge.
>
> Authors
>
> Eduardo Valentin, System Software Engineer at Texas Instruments,
> working on OMAP Linux kernel, previously a working on power management
> in maemo for Nokia.
>
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>> Benoit,
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Cousson, Benoit <b-cousson@ti.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Jean,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/14/2012 2:45 PM, Jean Pihet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Benoit,
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>>>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross<markgross@thegnar.org>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
>>>>>> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
>>>>>> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
>>>>>> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
>>>>>> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
>>>>>> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
>>>>>> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
>>>>>> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
>>>>>> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
>>>>>> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
>>>>>> definition is mostly finished.
>>>>
>>>> Is it OK to submit a talk for the next LPC? The deadline is tomorrow IIRC.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it is. Go ahead. It is related to Mark's proposal? Because it seems we
>>> have to do some homework in order to participate to the micro-conf :-(.
>>
>> Yes, the homework is required in order to drive the discussion based
>> on existing usable solutions..
>>
>> Jean, I'll write down a proposal today, from thermal requirements
>> perspective. But we can discuss also a way to converge either in a
>> common presentation or in even with two presentations but with strong
>> linking together.
>>
>> Just trying to avoid two conflicting proposals from two peers @ti.com
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Benoit
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jean
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
>>>>>> mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to
>>>>>> include
>>>>>> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
>>>>>> throttling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
>>>>>> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
>>>>>> 2) avoiding peak current
>>>>>> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
>>>>>> participate in this micro-conference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
>>>>>> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
>>>>>> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
>>>>> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
>>>>> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
>>>>> junction temperature management.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
>>>>> confirming soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) high level design brain storming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
>>>>>> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
>>>>>> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
>>>>>> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
>>>>>> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
>>>>>> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
>>>>>> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> with a good design to implement in the process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> --mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All best,
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Eduardo Valentin
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> linux-pm mailing list
>>>>> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Eduardo Valentin
>
>
>
> --
>
> Eduardo Valentin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Valentin, Eduardo]

Hello,

I submitted a blueprint on launchpad as well, available here:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/linux/+spec/lpc2012-cf-thermal-pm-constraint

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Jean Pihet <jean.pihet@newoldbits.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Here is my proposal for the PM constraints micro-conf RFP, as e-mailed today:
>
> Session title: A New Model for the System and Devices Latency
>
> Name of microconference (if applicable): PM constraints micro-conf,
> led by Mark Gross
>
> Abstract:
>  Due to the nature of the new SoC architectures the Power Management
> needs a new model for the various system latencies. The talk presents:
>  . the concepts of system, devices, wake-up and resume latencies,
>  . the recent changes in the devices framework for the latency, why
> and how to make it generic,
>  . the link with the other PM QoS frameworks: thermal, cpuidle,
>  . the recent changes in the ARM/OMAP platform code for the system latency,
>  . the problems encountered while modelling and measuring the
> various latencies,
>  . a proposal on the model and on the way to implement it,
>  . the planned changes in the device framework, the platform code
> and the APIs.
>
>  This talk is oriented towards Linux power management developers. The
> goal is to agree on a framework implementation and the interfaces
> within the kernel and with the user space.
>
> Experience:
> Jean Pihet, NewOldBits.com
>
> Jean Pihet is working with embedded Linux since many years now, for
> companies like Texas Instruments, MontaVista, Motorola and Philips.
> Recently NewOldBits.com has been founded to provide high quality
> consulting services. The area of work is mainly OMAP Power Management,
> tracing and profiling tools (perf, ftrace, oprofile...) for recent ARM
> cores.
>
> Kind regards,
> Jean
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>> FYI,
>>
>> I will submit later today, something like this:
>> "
>> Abstract
>>
>> The thermal challenge is to design an end-product with high
>> performance while keeping the junction temperature of the IC
>> components used on this product within their limitations and which
>> does not present a thermal discomfort for the user. OMAP4/OMAP5 System
>> on Chips, operating at highest Operating Performance Points (OPP), is
>> a powerful mobile applications processor. However operating at higher
>> voltage and higher frequency in a sustained manner may cause thermal
>> limits to be exceeded, both for silicon and user comfort. We propose a
>> new framework to model per device power constraints, for containment
>> of thermal limitations across major heat sources of a end-product
>> device, e.g. LCD, CPU, charging, etc. The framework shall facilitate
>> the power and thermal management performed by governor and policies,
>> depending on device context and use case knowledge.
>>
>> Authors
>>
>> Eduardo Valentin, System Software Engineer at Texas Instruments,
>> working on OMAP Linux kernel, previously a working on power management
>> in maemo for Nokia.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>>> Benoit,
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Cousson, Benoit <b-cousson@ti.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jean,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/14/2012 2:45 PM, Jean Pihet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Benoit,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>>>>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross<markgross@thegnar.org>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
>>>>>>> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
>>>>>>> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
>>>>>>> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
>>>>>>> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
>>>>>>> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
>>>>>>> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
>>>>>>> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
>>>>>>> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
>>>>>>> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
>>>>>>> definition is mostly finished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it OK to submit a talk for the next LPC? The deadline is tomorrow IIRC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it is. Go ahead. It is related to Mark's proposal? Because it seems we
>>>> have to do some homework in order to participate to the micro-conf :-(.
>>>
>>> Yes, the homework is required in order to drive the discussion based
>>> on existing usable solutions..
>>>
>>> Jean, I'll write down a proposal today, from thermal requirements
>>> perspective. But we can discuss also a way to converge either in a
>>> common presentation or in even with two presentations but with strong
>>> linking together.
>>>
>>> Just trying to avoid two conflicting proposals from two peers @ti.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Benoit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jean
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
>>>>>>> mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to
>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
>>>>>>> throttling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
>>>>>>> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
>>>>>>> 2) avoiding peak current
>>>>>>> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
>>>>>>> participate in this micro-conference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
>>>>>>> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
>>>>>>> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
>>>>>> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
>>>>>> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
>>>>>> junction temperature management.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
>>>>>> confirming soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) high level design brain storming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
>>>>>>> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
>>>>>>> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
>>>>>>> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
>>>>>>> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
>>>>>>> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
>>>>>>> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> with a good design to implement in the process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> --mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All best,
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eduardo Valentin
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> linux-pm mailing list
>>>>>> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Eduardo Valentin
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Eduardo Valentin



-- 

Eduardo Valentin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Amit Kucheria]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Jean Pihet <jean.pihet@newoldbits.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Here is my proposal for the PM constraints micro-conf RFP, as e-mailed today:
>
> Session title: A New Model for the System and Devices Latency
>
> Name of microconference (if applicable): PM constraints micro-conf,
> led by Mark Gross
>
> Abstract:
>  Due to the nature of the new SoC architectures the Power Management
> needs a new model for the various system latencies. The talk presents:
>  . the concepts of system, devices, wake-up and resume latencies,
>  . the recent changes in the devices framework for the latency, why
> and how to make it generic,
>  . the link with the other PM QoS frameworks: thermal, cpuidle,

Jean,

Do you already consider GPU drivers, backlight drivers and battery
charging for setting constraints (performance and thermal) ?

Between your, Eduardo's and Antti's proposals, a lot of ground is
being covered and I don't want to make a new proposal just for these
three. But we're keen on helping consolidate on generic interfaces to
deal with these three kinds of devices.

>  . the recent changes in the ARM/OMAP platform code for the system latency,
>  . the problems encountered while modelling and measuring the
> various latencies,
>
>  . a proposal on the model and on the way to implement it,
>  . the planned changes in the device framework, the platform code
> and the APIs.
>
>  This talk is oriented towards Linux power management developers. The
> goal is to agree on a framework implementation and the interfaces
> within the kernel and with the user space.
>
> Experience:
> Jean Pihet, NewOldBits.com
>
> Jean Pihet is working with embedded Linux since many years now, for
> companies like Texas Instruments, MontaVista, Motorola and Philips.
> Recently NewOldBits.com has been founded to provide high quality
> consulting services. The area of work is mainly OMAP Power Management,
> tracing and profiling tools (perf, ftrace, oprofile...) for recent ARM
> cores.
>
> Kind regards,
> Jean
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>> FYI,
>>
>> I will submit later today, something like this:
>> "
>> Abstract
>>
>> The thermal challenge is to design an end-product with high
>> performance while keeping the junction temperature of the IC
>> components used on this product within their limitations and which
>> does not present a thermal discomfort for the user. OMAP4/OMAP5 System
>> on Chips, operating at highest Operating Performance Points (OPP), is
>> a powerful mobile applications processor. However operating at higher
>> voltage and higher frequency in a sustained manner may cause thermal
>> limits to be exceeded, both for silicon and user comfort. We propose a
>> new framework to model per device power constraints, for containment
>> of thermal limitations across major heat sources of a end-product
>> device, e.g. LCD, CPU, charging, etc. The framework shall facilitate
>> the power and thermal management performed by governor and policies,
>> depending on device context and use case knowledge.
>>
>> Authors
>>
>> Eduardo Valentin, System Software Engineer at Texas Instruments,
>> working on OMAP Linux kernel, previously a working on power management
>> in maemo for Nokia.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>>> Benoit,
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Cousson, Benoit <b-cousson@ti.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jean,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/14/2012 2:45 PM, Jean Pihet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Benoit,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>>>>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross<markgross@thegnar.org>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
>>>>>>> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
>>>>>>> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
>>>>>>> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
>>>>>>> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
>>>>>>> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
>>>>>>> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
>>>>>>> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
>>>>>>> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
>>>>>>> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
>>>>>>> definition is mostly finished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it OK to submit a talk for the next LPC? The deadline is tomorrow IIRC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it is. Go ahead. It is related to Mark's proposal? Because it seems we
>>>> have to do some homework in order to participate to the micro-conf :-(.
>>>
>>> Yes, the homework is required in order to drive the discussion based
>>> on existing usable solutions..
>>>
>>> Jean, I'll write down a proposal today, from thermal requirements
>>> perspective. But we can discuss also a way to converge either in a
>>> common presentation or in even with two presentations but with strong
>>> linking together.
>>>
>>> Just trying to avoid two conflicting proposals from two peers @ti.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Benoit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jean
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
>>>>>>> mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to
>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
>>>>>>> throttling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
>>>>>>> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
>>>>>>> 2) avoiding peak current
>>>>>>> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
>>>>>>> participate in this micro-conference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
>>>>>>> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
>>>>>>> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
>>>>>> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
>>>>>> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
>>>>>> junction temperature management.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
>>>>>> confirming soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) high level design brain storming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
>>>>>>> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
>>>>>>> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
>>>>>>> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
>>>>>>> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
>>>>>>> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
>>>>>>> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> with a good design to implement in the process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> --mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All best,
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eduardo Valentin
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> linux-pm mailing list
>>>>>> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Eduardo Valentin
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Eduardo Valentin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 03:58:59PM +0300, Amit Kucheria wrote:
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Jean Pihet <jean.pihet@newoldbits.com> wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Here is my proposal for the PM constraints micro-conf RFP, as e-mailed today:
> >
> > Session title: A New Model for the System and Devices Latency
> >
> > Name of microconference (if applicable): PM constraints micro-conf,
> > led by Mark Gross
> >
> > Abstract:
> >  Due to the nature of the new SoC architectures the Power Management
> > needs a new model for the various system latencies. The talk presents:
> >  . the concepts of system, devices, wake-up and resume latencies,
> >  . the recent changes in the devices framework for the latency, why
> > and how to make it generic,
> >  . the link with the other PM QoS frameworks: thermal, cpuidle,
> 
> Jean,
> 
> Do you already consider GPU drivers, backlight drivers and battery
> charging for setting constraints (performance and thermal) ?
> 
> Between your, Eduardo's and Antti's proposals, a lot of ground is
> being covered and I don't want to make a new proposal just for these
> three. But we're keen on helping consolidate on generic interfaces to
> deal with these three kinds of devices.

It will be great to have you there in any case.

It feels like we have enough content to come up with portable
requirements and maybe an ok design that can work for multiple SoC's.

--mark

> >  . the recent changes in the ARM/OMAP platform code for the system latency,
> >  . the problems encountered while modelling and measuring the
> > various latencies,
> >
> >  . a proposal on the model and on the way to implement it,
> >  . the planned changes in the device framework, the platform code
> > and the APIs.
> >
> >  This talk is oriented towards Linux power management developers. The
> > goal is to agree on a framework implementation and the interfaces
> > within the kernel and with the user space.
> >
> > Experience:
> > Jean Pihet, NewOldBits.com
> >
> > Jean Pihet is working with embedded Linux since many years now, for
> > companies like Texas Instruments, MontaVista, Motorola and Philips.
> > Recently NewOldBits.com has been founded to provide high quality
> > consulting services. The area of work is mainly OMAP Power Management,
> > tracing and profiling tools (perf, ftrace, oprofile...) for recent ARM
> > cores.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Jean
> >
> > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> > <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
> >> FYI,
> >>
> >> I will submit later today, something like this:
> >> "
> >> Abstract
> >>
> >> The thermal challenge is to design an end-product with high
> >> performance while keeping the junction temperature of the IC
> >> components used on this product within their limitations and which
> >> does not present a thermal discomfort for the user. OMAP4/OMAP5 System
> >> on Chips, operating at highest Operating Performance Points (OPP), is
> >> a powerful mobile applications processor. However operating at higher
> >> voltage and higher frequency in a sustained manner may cause thermal
> >> limits to be exceeded, both for silicon and user comfort. We propose a
> >> new framework to model per device power constraints, for containment
> >> of thermal limitations across major heat sources of a end-product
> >> device, e.g. LCD, CPU, charging, etc. The framework shall facilitate
> >> the power and thermal management performed by governor and policies,
> >> depending on device context and use case knowledge.
> >>
> >> Authors
> >>
> >> Eduardo Valentin, System Software Engineer at Texas Instruments,
> >> working on OMAP Linux kernel, previously a working on power management
> >> in maemo for Nokia.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> >> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
> >>> Benoit,
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Cousson, Benoit <b-cousson@ti.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Jean,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/14/2012 2:45 PM, Jean Pihet wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Benoit,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> >>>>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello Mark,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross<markgross@thegnar.org>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> >>>>>>> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> >>>>>>> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> >>>>>>> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> >>>>>>> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> >>>>>>> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> >>>>>>> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> >>>>>>> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> >>>>>>> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> >>>>>>> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> >>>>>>> definition is mostly finished.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is it OK to submit a talk for the next LPC? The deadline is tomorrow IIRC.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, it is. Go ahead. It is related to Mark's proposal? Because it seems we
> >>>> have to do some homework in order to participate to the micro-conf :-(.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, the homework is required in order to drive the discussion based
> >>> on existing usable solutions..
> >>>
> >>> Jean, I'll write down a proposal today, from thermal requirements
> >>> perspective. But we can discuss also a way to converge either in a
> >>> common presentation or in even with two presentations but with strong
> >>> linking together.
> >>>
> >>> Just trying to avoid two conflicting proposals from two peers @ti.com
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Benoit
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Jean
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> >>>>>>> mode.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to
> >>>>>>> include
> >>>>>>> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> >>>>>>> throttling.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> >>>>>>> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> >>>>>>> 2) avoiding peak current
> >>>>>>> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> >>>>>>> participate in this micro-conference.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> >>>>>>> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> >>>>>>> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
> >>>>>> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
> >>>>>> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
> >>>>>> junction temperature management.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
> >>>>>> confirming soon.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2) high level design brain storming.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
> >>>>>>> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
> >>>>>>> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
> >>>>>>> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
> >>>>>>> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
> >>>>>>> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
> >>>>>>> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come
> >>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>> with a good design to implement in the process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> thanks,
> >>>>>>> --mark
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> All best,
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Eduardo Valentin
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> linux-pm mailing list
> >>>>>> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
> >>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Eduardo Valentin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Eduardo Valentin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Sundar]

I put in a rough draft @
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lpc/+spec/lpc2012-power-management-constraints

Cheers!

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:43 AM, mark gross <markgross@thegnar.org> wrote:
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 03:58:59PM +0300, Amit Kucheria wrote:
>> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Jean Pihet <jean.pihet@newoldbits.com> wrote:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > Here is my proposal for the PM constraints micro-conf RFP, as e-mailed today:
>> >
>> > Session title: A New Model for the System and Devices Latency
>> >
>> > Name of microconference (if applicable): PM constraints micro-conf,
>> > led by Mark Gross
>> >
>> > Abstract:
>> >  Due to the nature of the new SoC architectures the Power Management
>> > needs a new model for the various system latencies. The talk presents:
>> >  . the concepts of system, devices, wake-up and resume latencies,
>> >  . the recent changes in the devices framework for the latency, why
>> > and how to make it generic,
>> >  . the link with the other PM QoS frameworks: thermal, cpuidle,
>>
>> Jean,
>>
>> Do you already consider GPU drivers, backlight drivers and battery
>> charging for setting constraints (performance and thermal) ?
>>
>> Between your, Eduardo's and Antti's proposals, a lot of ground is
>> being covered and I don't want to make a new proposal just for these
>> three. But we're keen on helping consolidate on generic interfaces to
>> deal with these three kinds of devices.
>
> It will be great to have you there in any case.
>
> It feels like we have enough content to come up with portable
> requirements and maybe an ok design that can work for multiple SoC's.
>
> --mark
>
>> >  . the recent changes in the ARM/OMAP platform code for the system latency,
>> >  . the problems encountered while modelling and measuring the
>> > various latencies,
>> >
>> >  . a proposal on the model and on the way to implement it,
>> >  . the planned changes in the device framework, the platform code
>> > and the APIs.
>> >
>> >  This talk is oriented towards Linux power management developers. The
>> > goal is to agree on a framework implementation and the interfaces
>> > within the kernel and with the user space.
>> >
>> > Experience:
>> > Jean Pihet, NewOldBits.com
>> >
>> > Jean Pihet is working with embedded Linux since many years now, for
>> > companies like Texas Instruments, MontaVista, Motorola and Philips.
>> > Recently NewOldBits.com has been founded to provide high quality
>> > consulting services. The area of work is mainly OMAP Power Management,
>> > tracing and profiling tools (perf, ftrace, oprofile...) for recent ARM
>> > cores.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Jean
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>> > <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>> >> FYI,
>> >>
>> >> I will submit later today, something like this:
>> >> "
>> >> Abstract
>> >>
>> >> The thermal challenge is to design an end-product with high
>> >> performance while keeping the junction temperature of the IC
>> >> components used on this product within their limitations and which
>> >> does not present a thermal discomfort for the user. OMAP4/OMAP5 System
>> >> on Chips, operating at highest Operating Performance Points (OPP), is
>> >> a powerful mobile applications processor. However operating at higher
>> >> voltage and higher frequency in a sustained manner may cause thermal
>> >> limits to be exceeded, both for silicon and user comfort. We propose a
>> >> new framework to model per device power constraints, for containment
>> >> of thermal limitations across major heat sources of a end-product
>> >> device, e.g. LCD, CPU, charging, etc. The framework shall facilitate
>> >> the power and thermal management performed by governor and policies,
>> >> depending on device context and use case knowledge.
>> >>
>> >> Authors
>> >>
>> >> Eduardo Valentin, System Software Engineer at Texas Instruments,
>> >> working on OMAP Linux kernel, previously a working on power management
>> >> in maemo for Nokia.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>> >> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
>> >>> Benoit,
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Cousson, Benoit <b-cousson@ti.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Hi Jean,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 5/14/2012 2:45 PM, Jean Pihet wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Benoit,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
>> >>>>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com>  wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello Mark,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross<markgross@thegnar.org>  wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
>> >>>>>>> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
>> >>>>>>> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
>> >>>>>>> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
>> >>>>>>> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
>> >>>>>>> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
>> >>>>>>> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
>> >>>>>>> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
>> >>>>>>> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
>> >>>>>>> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
>> >>>>>>> definition is mostly finished.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Is it OK to submit a talk for the next LPC? The deadline is tomorrow IIRC.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yes, it is. Go ahead. It is related to Mark's proposal? Because it seems we
>> >>>> have to do some homework in order to participate to the micro-conf :-(.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, the homework is required in order to drive the discussion based
>> >>> on existing usable solutions..
>> >>>
>> >>> Jean, I'll write down a proposal today, from thermal requirements
>> >>> perspective. But we can discuss also a way to converge either in a
>> >>> common presentation or in even with two presentations but with strong
>> >>> linking together.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just trying to avoid two conflicting proposals from two peers @ti.com
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards,
>> >>>> Benoit
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>> Jean
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
>> >>>>>>> mode.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>  From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to
>> >>>>>>> include
>> >>>>>>> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
>> >>>>>>> throttling.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
>> >>>>>>> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
>> >>>>>>> 2) avoiding peak current
>> >>>>>>> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
>> >>>>>>> participate in this micro-conference.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
>> >>>>>>> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
>> >>>>>>> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
>> >>>>>> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
>> >>>>>> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
>> >>>>>> junction temperature management.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
>> >>>>>> confirming soon.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> 2) high level design brain storming.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
>> >>>>>>> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
>> >>>>>>> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
>> >>>>>>> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
>> >>>>>>> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
>> >>>>>>> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
>> >>>>>>> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come
>> >>>>>>> up
>> >>>>>>> with a good design to implement in the process.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> thanks,
>> >>>>>>> --mark
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> All best,
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Eduardo Valentin
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> linux-pm mailing list
>> >>>>>> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
>> >>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> Eduardo Valentin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Eduardo Valentin
> _______________________________________________
> linux-pm mailing list
> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm



-- 
---------
The views expressed in this email are personal and do not necessarily
echo my employers.

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Sundar]

:(

I received this:

Your message (attached below) was not delivered to:

 paulmck@vnet.ibm.com

because:

 Bad destination mailbox address

Final-recipient: rfc822;paulmck@vnet.ibm.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-code: X-Xagent; Bad destination mailbox address

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Sundar <sunder.svit@gmail.com> wrote:
> I put in a rough draft @
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lpc/+spec/lpc2012-power-management-constraints
>
> Cheers!

-- 
---------
The views expressed in this email are personal and do not necessarily
echo my employers.

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[mark gross]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:40:44AM +0200, Jean Pihet wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Here is my proposal for the PM constraints micro-conf RFP, as e-mailed today:
> 
> Session title: A New Model for the System and Devices Latency
> 
> Name of microconference (if applicable): PM constraints micro-conf,
> led by Mark Gross
> 
> Abstract:
>  Due to the nature of the new SoC architectures the Power Management
> needs a new model for the various system latencies. The talk presents:
>   . the concepts of system, devices, wake-up and resume latencies,
>   . the recent changes in the devices framework for the latency, why
> and how to make it generic,
>   . the link with the other PM QoS frameworks: thermal, cpuidle,
>   . the recent changes in the ARM/OMAP platform code for the system latency,
>   . the problems encountered while modelling and measuring the
> various latencies,
>   . a proposal on the model and on the way to implement it,
>   . the planned changes in the device framework, the platform code
> and the APIs.
> 
>  This talk is oriented towards Linux power management developers. The
> goal is to agree on a framework implementation and the interfaces
> within the kernel and with the user space.

looks great to me!  you should toss it up on the plumbers site.

--mark


> Experience:
> Jean Pihet, NewOldBits.com
> 
> Jean Pihet is working with embedded Linux since many years now, for
> companies like Texas Instruments, MontaVista, Motorola and Philips.
> Recently NewOldBits.com has been founded to provide high quality
> consulting services. The area of work is mainly OMAP Power Management,
> tracing and profiling tools (perf, ftrace, oprofile...) for recent ARM
> cores.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Jean
> 
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
> > FYI,
> >
> > I will submit later today, something like this:
> > "
> > Abstract
> >
> > The thermal challenge is to design an end-product with high
> > performance while keeping the junction temperature of the IC
> > components used on this product within their limitations and which
> > does not present a thermal discomfort for the user. OMAP4/OMAP5 System
> > on Chips, operating at highest Operating Performance Points (OPP), is
> > a powerful mobile applications processor. However operating at higher
> > voltage and higher frequency in a sustained manner may cause thermal
> > limits to be exceeded, both for silicon and user comfort. We propose a
> > new framework to model per device power constraints, for containment
> > of thermal limitations across major heat sources of a end-product
> > device, e.g. LCD, CPU, charging, etc. The framework shall facilitate
> > the power and thermal management performed by governor and policies,
> > depending on device context and use case knowledge.
> >
> > Authors
> >
> > Eduardo Valentin, System Software Engineer at Texas Instruments,
> > working on OMAP Linux kernel, previously a working on power management
> > in maemo for Nokia.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> > <eduardo.valentin@ti.com> wrote:
> >> Benoit,
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Cousson, Benoit <b-cousson@ti.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi Jean,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/14/2012 2:45 PM, Jean Pihet wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Benoit,
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Valentin, Eduardo
> >>>> <eduardo.valentin@ti.com>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello Mark,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:36 PM, mark gross<markgross@thegnar.org>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years
> >>>>>> Linux plumbers event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to
> >>>>>> reach a certain critical mass WRT participants as measured by submitted
> >>>>>> talks associated to Power Management Constraints.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nice! Thanks for proposing this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with
> >>>>>> over extending pm-qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power /
> >>>>>> performance of devices I am inviting your participation and request you
> >>>>>> submit a proposal for presenting your problem space (preferred) and or
> >>>>>> solution to a group of developers looking for a good solution to push
> >>>>>> upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min long as I want to get into
> >>>>>> some design and implementation discussions after the requirements
> >>>>>> definition is mostly finished.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is it OK to submit a talk for the next LPC? The deadline is tomorrow IIRC.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes, it is. Go ahead. It is related to Mark's proposal? Because it seems we
> >>> have to do some homework in order to participate to the micro-conf :-(.
> >>
> >> Yes, the homework is required in order to drive the discussion based
> >> on existing usable solutions..
> >>
> >> Jean, I'll write down a proposal today, from thermal requirements
> >> perspective. But we can discuss also a way to converge either in a
> >> common presentation or in even with two presentations but with strong
> >> linking together.
> >>
> >> Just trying to avoid two conflicting proposals from two peers @ti.com
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Benoit
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Jean
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel
> >>>>>> mode.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to
> >>>>>> include
> >>>>>> limiting performance as well as its current limiting of device
> >>>>>> throttling.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> >>>>>> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> >>>>>> 2) avoiding peak current
> >>>>>> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
> >>>>>> participate in this micro-conference.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> >>>>>> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where
> >>>>>> constraining the performance or throttling is needed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I could bring something on the use cases where this type of
> >>>>> constraining could be used. Essentially major focus gets partitioned
> >>>>> in two areas: For device skin/case temperature management, and IC's
> >>>>> junction temperature management.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am currently checking the traveling arrangements as well. And
> >>>>> confirming soon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2) high level design brain storming.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any
> >>>>>> interested linux-plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt
> >>>>>> alias of interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must
> >>>>>> of the correspondence will cc linux-pm too.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this
> >>>>>> with me.  I know a number of people are working in this space for the
> >>>>>> past few years now.  I think its a good time to compare notes and at
> >>>>>> least consolidate requirements and use cases.  Perhaps we'll even come
> >>>>>> up
> >>>>>> with a good design to implement in the process.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> thanks,
> >>>>>> --mark
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All best,
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eduardo Valentin
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> linux-pm mailing list
> >>>>> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
> >>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Eduardo Valentin
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Eduardo Valentin

Re: Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP

[Mansoor, Illyas]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3236 bytes --]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-pm-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org [mailto:linux-pm-
> bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org] On Behalf Of mark gross
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:06 PM
> To: mark gross; John Stultz; jeen.pihet@G62.linuxfoundation.org; MyungJoo Ham;
> Amit Kucheria; Agarwal, Ramesh; Praveen Chidambaram; Antti P Miettinen;
Valentin,
> Eduardo; Rafael J. Wysocki; Kevin Hilman
> Cc: paulmck@vnet.ibm.com; linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
> Subject: [linux-pm] Plumbers: PM constraints micro-conf RFP
> 
> This is a Request For Participation in a micro-conference at this years Linux
plumbers
> event.  For this micro conference to happen we need to reach a certain
critical mass
> WRT participants as measured by submitted talks associated to Power Management
> Constraints.
> 
> The To: list is populated with folks that I've had interactions with over
extending pm-
> qos or constraint based PM over the past year.
> 
> If you are working on problems related to constraining the power / performance
of
> devices I am inviting your participation and request you submit a proposal for
> presenting your problem space (preferred) and or solution to a group of
developers
> looking for a good solution to push upstream.  The talks will be about 20 min
long as
> I want to get into some design and implementation discussions after the
> requirements definition is mostly finished.
> 
> I am interested in gathering user mode interface needs as well as kernel mode.
> 
> From a high level pm-constraints is a generalization of pm-qos to include
limiting
> performance as well as its current limiting of device throttling.
> 
> As performance limiting is typically used for any of the following:
> 1) staying within thermal operational envelopes
> 2) avoiding peak current
> 3) extending battery life in active use cases
> 
> I invite anyone working in any of these areas or pm-qos applications to
participate in
> this micro-conference.
> 
> I will organize the micro-conference into 2 parts:
> 1) problem statements with specific participant examples where constraining
the
> performance or throttling is needed.
> 
> 2) high level design brain storming.
> 
> If the micro-conference happens (i.e. critical mass is reached) any interested
linux-
> plumbers attendees is very welcome to participate.
> 
> Please send me an off list email if you want me to add you to my mutt alias of
> interested parties I'll use to cc people on emails.  Note: must of the
correspondence
> will cc linux-pm too.
> 
> Please submit a proposal if you are interested in participating in this with
me.  I know
> a number of people are working in this space for the past few years now.  I
think its a
> good time to compare notes and at least consolidate requirements and use
cases.
> Perhaps we'll even come up with a good design to implement in the process.
Mark,

Please find a draft proposal on priority based PM-QoS Parameters,
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lpc/+spec/lpc-2012-priority-based-pmqos-paramet
ers

Thanks,
> 
> thanks,
> --mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> linux-pm mailing list
> linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm

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