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From: Frank van Maarseveen <frankvm@frankvm.com>
To: linux-raid@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Spares and partitioning huge disks
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:33:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20050109193353.GB9524@janus> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200501081749.32816.maarten@ultratux.net>

On Sat, Jan 08, 2005 at 05:49:32PM +0100, maarten wrote:
> 
> > For one second I thought it's a clever trick but gut feeling tells
> > me the odds of losing the entire array won't change (simplified --
> > because the increased complexity creates room for additional errors).
> 
> No.  It is somewhat more complex, true, but no different than making, for 

Got it.

> However, IF during that 
> resync one other drive has a read error, it gets kicked too and the array 
> dies.  The chances of that happening are not very small;

Ouch! never considered this. So, RAID5 will actually decrease reliability
in a significant number of cases because:

-	>1 read errors can cause a total break-down whereas it used
	to cause only a few userland I/O errors, disruptive but not foobar.
-	disk replacement is quite risky. This is totally unexpected to me
	but it should have been obvious: there's no bad block list in MD
	so if we would postpone I/O errors during reconstruction then
	1:	it might cause silent data corruption when I/O error
		unexpectedly disappears.
	2:	we might silently loose redundancy in a number of places.

I think RAID6 but especially RAID1 is safer.

A small side note on disk behavior:
If it becomes possible to do block remapping at any level (MD, DM/LVM,
FS) then we might not want to write to sectors with read errors at all
but just remap the corresponding blocks by software as long as we have
free blocks: save disk-internal spare sectors so the disk firmware can
pre-emptively remap degraded but ECC correctable sectors upon read.

-- 
Frank

  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-01-09 19:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-01-06 14:16 Spares and partitioning huge disks maarten
2005-01-06 16:46 ` Guy
2005-01-06 17:08   ` maarten
2005-01-06 17:31 ` Guy
2005-01-06 18:18   ` maarten
     [not found]     ` <41DD83DA.9040609@h3c.com>
2005-01-06 19:42       ` maarten
2005-01-07 20:59 ` Mario Holbe
2005-01-07 21:57   ` Guy
2005-01-08 10:22     ` Mario Holbe
2005-01-08 12:19       ` maarten
2005-01-08 16:33         ` Guy
2005-01-08 16:58           ` maarten
2005-01-08 14:52     ` Frank van Maarseveen
2005-01-08 15:50       ` Mario Holbe
2005-01-08 16:32       ` Guy
2005-01-08 17:16         ` maarten
2005-01-08 18:55           ` Guy
2005-01-08 19:25             ` maarten
2005-01-08 20:33               ` Mario Holbe
2005-01-08 23:01                 ` maarten
2005-01-09 10:10                   ` Mario Holbe
2005-01-09 16:23                     ` Guy
2005-01-09 16:36                       ` Michael Tokarev
2005-01-09 17:52                         ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-09 17:59                           ` Michael Tokarev
2005-01-09 18:34                             ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-09 20:28                             ` Guy
2005-01-09 20:47                               ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-10  7:19                                 ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-10  9:05                                   ` Guy
2005-01-10  9:38                                     ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-10 12:31                                   ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-10 13:19                                     ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-10 18:37                                       ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-11 11:34                                         ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-08 23:09               ` Guy
2005-01-09  0:56                 ` maarten
2005-01-13  2:05                 ` Neil Brown
2005-01-13  4:55                   ` Guy
2005-01-13  9:27                   ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-13 15:53                     ` Guy
2005-01-13 17:16                       ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-13 20:40                         ` Guy
2005-01-13 23:32                           ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-14  2:43                             ` Guy
2005-01-08 16:49       ` maarten
2005-01-08 19:01         ` maarten
2005-01-10 16:34           ` maarten
2005-01-10 16:36             ` Gordon Henderson
2005-01-10 17:10               ` maarten
2005-01-16 16:19                 ` 4 questions. Chieftec chassis case CA-01B, resync times, selecting ide driver module loading, raid5 :2 drives on same ide channel Mitchell Laks
2005-01-16 17:53                   ` Gordon Henderson
2005-01-16 18:22                   ` Maarten
2005-01-16 19:39                   ` Guy
2005-01-16 20:55                     ` Maarten
2005-01-16 21:58                       ` Guy
2005-01-10 17:13             ` Spares and partitioning huge disks Guy
2005-01-10 17:35               ` hard disk re-locates bad block on read Guy
2005-01-11 14:34                 ` Tom Coughlan
2005-01-11 22:43                   ` Guy
2005-01-12 13:51                     ` Tom Coughlan
2005-01-10 18:24               ` Spares and partitioning huge disks maarten
2005-01-10 20:09                 ` Guy
2005-01-10 21:21                   ` maarten
2005-01-11  1:04                   ` maarten
2005-01-10 18:40               ` maarten
2005-01-10 19:41                 ` Guy
2005-01-12 11:41               ` RAID-6 Gordon Henderson
2005-01-13  2:11                 ` RAID-6 Neil Brown
2005-01-15 16:12                   ` RAID-6 Gordon Henderson
2005-01-17  8:04                     ` RAID-6 Turbo Fredriksson
2005-01-11 10:09             ` Spares and partitioning huge disks KELEMEN Peter
2005-01-09 19:33         ` Frank van Maarseveen [this message]
2005-01-09 21:26           ` maarten
2005-01-09 22:29             ` Frank van Maarseveen
2005-01-09 23:16               ` maarten
2005-01-10  8:15                 ` Frank van Maarseveen
2005-01-14 17:29                   ` Dieter Stueken
2005-01-14 17:46                     ` maarten
2005-01-14 19:14                       ` Derek Piper
2005-01-15  0:13                     ` Michael Tokarev
2005-01-15  9:34                       ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-15  9:54                         ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2005-01-15 10:31                           ` Brad Campbell
2005-01-15 11:10                             ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2005-01-15 10:33                           ` Peter T. Breuer
2005-01-15 11:07                             ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2005-01-09 23:20             ` Guy
2005-01-10  7:42               ` Gordon Henderson
2005-01-10  9:03                 ` Guy
2005-01-10 12:21                   ` Stats... [RE: Spares and partitioning huge disks] Gordon Henderson
2005-01-10  0:42             ` Spares and partitioning huge disks Guy
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-01-13  9:53 Bene Martin
2005-01-13 10:11 ` Peter T. Breuer

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