From: Al Boldi <a1426z@gawab.com>
To: Mark Hahn <hahn@mcmaster.ca>
Cc: linux-raid@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: PATA/SATA Disk Reliability paper
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:07:10 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200702260007.10205.a1426z@gawab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702251256060.21918@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
Mark Hahn wrote:
> - disks are very complicated, so their failure rates are a
> combination of conditional failure rates of many components.
> to take a fully reductionist approach would require knowing
> how each of ~1k parts responds to age, wear, temp, handling, etc.
> and none of those can be assumed to be independent. those are the
> "real reasons", but most can't be measured directly outside a lab
> and the number of combinatorial interactions is huge.
It seems to me that the biggest problem are the 7.2k+ rpm platters
themselves, especially with those heads flying closely on top of them. So,
we can probably forget the rest of the ~1k non-moving parts, as they have
proven to be pretty reliable, most of the time.
> - factorial analysis of the data. temperature is a good
> example, because both low and high temperature affect AFR,
> and in ways that interact with age and/or utilization. this
> is a common issue in medical studies, which are strikingly
> similar in design (outcome is subject or disk dies...) there
> is a well-established body of practice for factorial analysis.
Agreed. We definitely need more sensors.
> - recognition that the relative results are actually quite good,
> even if the absolute results are not amazing. for instance,
> assume we have 1k drives, and a 10% overall failure rate. using
> all SMART but temp detects 64 of the 100 failures and misses 36.
> essentially, the failure rate is now .036. I'm guessing that if
> utilization and temperature were included, the rate would be much
> lower. feedback from active testing (especially scrubbing)
> and performance under the normal workload would also help.
Are you saying, you are content with pre-mature disk failure, as long as
there is a smart warning sign?
If so, then I don't think that is enough.
I think the sensors should trigger some kind of shutdown mechanism as a
protective measure, when some threshold is reached. Just like the
protective measure you see for CPUs to prevent meltdown.
Thanks!
--
Al
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-25 21:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-02-18 18:50 PATA/SATA Disk Reliability paper Richard Scobie
2007-02-19 11:26 ` Al Boldi
2007-02-19 21:42 ` Eyal Lebedinsky
2007-02-20 12:15 ` Al Boldi
2007-02-22 22:27 ` Nix
2007-02-22 22:30 ` Nix
2007-02-22 23:30 ` Stephen C Woods
2007-02-23 18:22 ` Al Boldi
2007-02-24 22:27 ` Mark Hahn
2007-02-25 11:22 ` Al Boldi
2007-02-25 17:40 ` Mark Hahn
[not found] ` <200702252057.22963.a1426z@gawab.com>
2007-02-25 19:58 ` Mark Hahn
2007-02-25 21:07 ` Al Boldi [this message]
2007-02-25 22:14 ` Mark Hahn
2007-02-25 22:46 ` Benjamin Davenport
2007-02-25 23:58 ` Mark Hahn
2007-02-27 19:21 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-25 19:02 ` Richard Scobie
2007-02-27 19:06 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-26 14:15 ` Mario 'BitKoenig' Holbe
2007-02-26 17:46 ` Al Boldi
2007-02-20 3:03 ` H. Peter Anvin
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