linux-raid.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de>
To: stan@hardwarefreak.com
Cc: Phillip Susi <psusi@ubuntu.com>,
	joystick <joystick@shiftmail.org>,
	linux-raid <linux-raid@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: The chunk size paradox
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 23:32:46 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140102223246.8DBE538220E@gemini.denx.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <52C5A9AA.9090300@hardwarefreak.com>

Dear Stan,

In message <52C5A9AA.9090300@hardwarefreak.com> you wrote:
>
> > filesystem blocks and memory pages aren't necessarily 4K, though that
> > is the most common size.
> 
> Yes, they are necessarily 4K in Linux.  Linux only supports page sized
> BIO for consistency across the memory manager and IO subsystems.  Most
> architectures which Linux currently supports have hardware page sizes
> greater than 4K, for instance IA64 supports 4k/8k/16k, even a 4GB page
> size.  But it was decided long ago to stick with 4K for a number of
> reasons, one of these is stated above.  For background on this Google is
> your friend.

Well, you can tune the page size - and if you need no file system
support (like when implementing a RAID controller card) making the
page size exactly the same as the chunk size will allow for some nice
performance optimizations (as you can avoid a lot of large memcpy()
operations).

We did this (some 6 years ago) for the (then AMCC) PPC440SPe
processors; I can't find the old document any longer on APM's web
site, but there is still a copy here ([1]) which shows the effect.

So yes, tuning the system page size can have considerable impact, but
only for special-purpose applications, and when optimising for large
sequential I/O (which appears to be how the RAID controller
manufacturers are testing / optimizing their systems).


Fact is, with a file system on top of the RAID array, and with our
typical work load of many very small files, A RAID6 with chunk size
16k will give much better results that with chunk size 64k - and
anything even bigger will be worse.


[1] ftp://ftp.denx.de/pub/demos/RAID-demo/doc/RAIDinLinux_PB_0529a.pdf

Best regards,

Wolfgang Denk

--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH,     MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel
HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd@denx.de
"The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your
hands and hoping when a rock or a club will do."
                                               - McCloctnik the Lucid

  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-01-02 22:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-12-30 18:48 The chunk size paradox Phillip Susi
2013-12-30 23:38 ` Peter Grandi
2013-12-31  0:01   ` Wolfgang Denk
2013-12-31 13:51     ` David Brown
2014-01-02 20:08   ` Phillip Susi
2014-01-02 14:49 ` joystick
2014-01-02 15:24   ` Phillip Susi
2014-01-02 15:41   ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-02 16:31     ` Phillip Susi
2014-01-02 18:02       ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-02 19:10         ` Phillip Susi
2014-01-02 22:49           ` Peter Grandi
2014-01-02 23:16           ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-03  1:02             ` Phillip Susi
2014-01-02 19:21         ` Joe Landman
2014-01-02 22:42           ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-02 22:56             ` Carsten Aulbert
2014-01-03  0:19               ` Phillip Susi
2014-01-03  1:24               ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-03  3:14               ` Joe Landman
2014-01-03  3:19                 ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-03  4:24                   ` Stan Hoeppner
2014-01-02 23:22           ` Peter Grandi
2014-01-03  3:09             ` Joe Landman
2014-01-03  4:58             ` Joe Landman
2014-01-02 22:32         ` Wolfgang Denk [this message]
2014-01-03 14:51           ` Benjamin ESTRABAUD

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20140102223246.8DBE538220E@gemini.denx.de \
    --to=wd@denx.de \
    --cc=joystick@shiftmail.org \
    --cc=linux-raid@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=psusi@ubuntu.com \
    --cc=stan@hardwarefreak.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).