[parent not found: <62b0912f0609160616k3b79ded9la2c918df057daef0@mail.gmail.co m>]
* Re: ATA cables and drives
[not found] ` <62b0912f0609160616k3b79ded9la2c918df057daef0@mail.gmail.co m>
@ 2006-09-16 15:54 ` Jeff Woods
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Woods @ 2006-09-16 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Molle Bestefich; +Cc: linux-raid
At 15:16 +0200 9/16/2006, Molle Bestefich wrote:
>A.) Does anyone have experience with returning Hitachi, Seagate or
>WD drives to the manufacturer? Do they have manufacturer warranty at
>all? How much/little trouble did you have with Hitachi, Seagate or WD?
A few years ago (but after IBM sold their HDD business to Hitachi) I
had a laptop drive (48GB 2.5") die before the three year warranty
ended. I did the diagnostic code, RMA thing and got a refurbished
replacement which also died within a year. Repeated diagnostic and
RMA which got me another drive which still works fine. I think the
original two drives died because I was running the laptop they were
in 24x7; most laptop drives are not designed for that duty cycle. The
new drive has been great in an external USB+Firewire enclosure as a
48GB sneakernet drive.
I've never had reason to return a Seagate or WD drive. It's been a
few years since I used a Seagate personally. I have a 4-way RAID-0 of
WD 74GB 10K-RPM Raptors (five year warranty) which work great. I also
have two WD 400GB RE2 drives (also five year warranty) in RAID-0 that
also seem great.
>B.) Can anyone *prove* (to a reasonable degree) that drives from
>manufacturer H, M, S or WD is of better quality? Has anyone seen a
>review that heat/shock/stress test drives?
I can't even prove that *I* exist. ;)
>C.) Does good SATA cables exist? Eg. cables that lock on to the
>drives, or backplanes which lock the entire disk in place?
WD has "SecureConnect" which is a SATA connecter their drives
support. I use it and like it on all my WD SATA drives.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/accessories.asp?ProdID=74
--
Jeff Woods <kazrak+kernel@cesmail.net>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: ATA cables and drives
2006-09-16 13:16 ATA cables and drives Molle Bestefich
[not found] ` <62b0912f0609160616k3b79ded9la2c918df057daef0@mail.gmail.co m>
@ 2006-09-16 17:24 ` Bill Davidsen
2006-09-17 3:09 ` Guy
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Bill Davidsen @ 2006-09-16 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Molle Bestefich; +Cc: linux-raid
Molle Bestefich wrote:
> I'm looking for new harddrives.
>
> This is my experience so far.
>
>
> SATA cables:
> =============
>
> I have zero good experiences with any SATA cables.
> They've all been crap so far.
>
>
> 3.5" ATA harddrives buyable where I live:
> ==========================================
>
> (All drives are 7200rpm, for some reason.)
Unless you live where delivery services don't go, you can get 10k SATA
or 15k Ultra320 drives from many vendors. I checked newegg just as a
reference, there are many others.
The rest of your questions sound like you are running the drives very
hot, and drive life is inversely proportional to temperature. There are
mil-spec drives which will live at 100C, but they are not readily
available and cost way more than keeping drives cool. I have no idea
what kind of SATA cable failure you are seeing, I have some in machines
I take to give presentations, and if 10k miles in the back of an SUV
didn't cause problems, I doubt any normal operation would. I've had them
bad when I got them, but if they work once they keep working, in my
experience.
>
>
> I've tried Maxtor and IBM (now Hitachi) harddrives.
> Both makes have failed on me, but most of the time due to horrible
> packaging.
>
> I don't care a split-second whether one kind is marginally faster than
> the other, so all the reviews on AnandTech etc. are utterly useless to
> me. There's an infinite number of more effective ways to get better
> performance than to buy a slightly faster harddrive.
>
> I DO care about quality, namely:
> * How often the drives has catastrophic failure,
> * How they handle heat (dissipation & acceptance - how hot before it
> fails?),
> * How big the spare area is,
> * How often they have single-sector failures,
> * How long the manufacturer warranty lasts,
> * How easy the manufacturer is to work with wrt. warranty.
>
> I haven't been able to figure the spare area size, heat properties,
> etc. for any drives.
> Thus my only criteria so far has been manufacturer warranty: How much
> bitching do I get when I tell them my drive doesn't work.
>
> My main experience is with Maxtor.
> Maxtor has been none less than superb wrt. warranty!
> Download an ISO with a diag tool, burn the CD, boot the CD, type in
> the fault code it prints on Maxtor's site, and a day or two later
> you've got a new drive in the mail and packaging to ship the old one
> back in. If something odd happens, call them up and they're extremely
> helpful.
>
> Unfortunately, I lack thorough experience with the other brands.
>
>
> Questions:
> ===========
>
> A.) Does anyone have experience with returning Hitachi, Seagate or WD
> drives to the manufacturer?
> Do they have manufacturer warranty at all?
> How much/little trouble did you have with Hitachi, Seagate or WD?
>
> B.) Can anyone *prove* (to a reasonable degree) that drives from
> manufacturer H, M, S or WD is of better quality?
> Has anyone seen a review that heat/shock/stress test drives?
>
> C.) Does good SATA cables exist?
> Eg. cables that lock on to the drives, or backplanes which lock
> the entire disk in place?
>
>
> Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for answers (if any) :-).
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
--
bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
CTO TMR Associates, Inc
Doing interesting things with small computers since 1979
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* RE: ATA cables and drives
2006-09-16 13:16 ATA cables and drives Molle Bestefich
[not found] ` <62b0912f0609160616k3b79ded9la2c918df057daef0@mail.gmail.co m>
2006-09-16 17:24 ` Bill Davidsen
@ 2006-09-17 3:09 ` Guy
2006-09-21 18:38 ` Rob Bray
2006-09-21 18:38 ` Rob Bray
4 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Guy @ 2006-09-17 3:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Molle Bestefich', linux-raid
Most manufacturers give you a 1 or 3 year warranty. I must assume this
indicates how long they think the drive will last. Seagate gives you 5
years. I use Seagate but have not had to return a drive in many years.
I have 4 of these:
Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 320 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA
And 2 of these:
Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 300 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA
No problems with above, very quiet and cool.
And many (17+) 18 Gig 10,000 RPM SCSI disks. 1 or 2 have failed in the last
2 years. But they are vary out of warranty.
No problems, very quiet and cool.
Guy
} -----Original Message-----
} From: linux-raid-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-raid-
} owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Molle Bestefich
} Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 9:16 AM
} To: linux-raid@vger.kernel.org
} Subject: ATA cables and drives
}
} I'm looking for new harddrives.
}
} This is my experience so far.
}
}
} SATA cables:
} =============
}
} I have zero good experiences with any SATA cables.
} They've all been crap so far.
}
}
} 3.5" ATA harddrives buyable where I live:
} ==========================================
}
} (All drives are 7200rpm, for some reason.)
}
} Hitachi "DeskStar" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
} Maxtor "DiamondMax 11" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
} Maxtor "MaXLine Pro" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
} Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 500 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA or PATA
} Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 750 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA or PATA
} Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 500 GB / 16 MB / 11 ms / SATA or PATA
} Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 500 GB / 8 MB / 11 ms / SATA or PATA
} Seagate "Barracuda ES" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA
} Seagate "Barracuda ES" 750 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA
} Seagate "ESATA" 500 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA (external)
} Seagate "NL35.2 ST3500641NS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8 ms / ? / SATA
} Seagate "NL35.2 ST3500841NS" 500 GB / 8 MB / 8 ms / ? / SATA
} Western Digital "SE16 WD5000KS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.9 ms / SATA
} Western Digital "RE2 WD5000YS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.7 ms / SATA
}
} I've tried Maxtor and IBM (now Hitachi) harddrives.
} Both makes have failed on me, but most of the time due to horrible
} packaging.
}
} I don't care a split-second whether one kind is marginally faster than
} the other, so all the reviews on AnandTech etc. are utterly useless to
} me. There's an infinite number of more effective ways to get better
} performance than to buy a slightly faster harddrive.
}
} I DO care about quality, namely:
} * How often the drives has catastrophic failure,
} * How they handle heat (dissipation & acceptance - how hot before it
} fails?),
} * How big the spare area is,
} * How often they have single-sector failures,
} * How long the manufacturer warranty lasts,
} * How easy the manufacturer is to work with wrt. warranty.
}
} I haven't been able to figure the spare area size, heat properties,
} etc. for any drives.
} Thus my only criteria so far has been manufacturer warranty: How much
} bitching do I get when I tell them my drive doesn't work.
}
} My main experience is with Maxtor.
} Maxtor has been none less than superb wrt. warranty!
} Download an ISO with a diag tool, burn the CD, boot the CD, type in
} the fault code it prints on Maxtor's site, and a day or two later
} you've got a new drive in the mail and packaging to ship the old one
} back in. If something odd happens, call them up and they're extremely
} helpful.
}
} Unfortunately, I lack thorough experience with the other brands.
}
}
} Questions:
} ===========
}
} A.) Does anyone have experience with returning Hitachi, Seagate or WD
} drives to the manufacturer?
} Do they have manufacturer warranty at all?
} How much/little trouble did you have with Hitachi, Seagate or WD?
}
} B.) Can anyone *prove* (to a reasonable degree) that drives from
} manufacturer H, M, S or WD is of better quality?
} Has anyone seen a review that heat/shock/stress test drives?
}
} C.) Does good SATA cables exist?
} Eg. cables that lock on to the drives, or backplanes which lock
} the entire disk in place?
}
}
} Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for answers (if any) :-).
} -
} To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in
} the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
} More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: ATA cables and drives
2006-09-16 13:16 ATA cables and drives Molle Bestefich
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2006-09-17 3:09 ` Guy
@ 2006-09-21 18:38 ` Rob Bray
2006-09-21 18:38 ` Rob Bray
4 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Rob Bray @ 2006-09-21 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Molle Bestefich; +Cc: linux-raid
> I'm looking for new harddrives.
>
> This is my experience so far.
>
>
> SATA cables:
> =============
>
> I have zero good experiences with any SATA cables.
> They've all been crap so far.
>
>
> 3.5" ATA harddrives buyable where I live:
> ==========================================
>
> (All drives are 7200rpm, for some reason.)
>
> Hitachi "DeskStar" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
> Maxtor "DiamondMax 11" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
> Maxtor "MaXLine Pro" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 500 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 750 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 500 GB / 16 MB / 11 ms / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 500 GB / 8 MB / 11 ms / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda ES" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA
> Seagate "Barracuda ES" 750 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA
> Seagate "ESATA" 500 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA (external)
> Seagate "NL35.2 ST3500641NS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8 ms / ? / SATA
> Seagate "NL35.2 ST3500841NS" 500 GB / 8 MB / 8 ms / ? / SATA
> Western Digital "SE16 WD5000KS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.9 ms / SATA
> Western Digital "RE2 WD5000YS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.7 ms / SATA
>
> I've tried Maxtor and IBM (now Hitachi) harddrives.
> Both makes have failed on me, but most of the time due to horrible
> packaging.
>
> I don't care a split-second whether one kind is marginally faster than
> the other, so all the reviews on AnandTech etc. are utterly useless to
> me. There's an infinite number of more effective ways to get better
> performance than to buy a slightly faster harddrive.
>
> I DO care about quality, namely:
> * How often the drives has catastrophic failure,
> * How they handle heat (dissipation & acceptance - how hot before it
> fails?),
> * How big the spare area is,
> * How often they have single-sector failures,
> * How long the manufacturer warranty lasts,
> * How easy the manufacturer is to work with wrt. warranty.
>
> I haven't been able to figure the spare area size, heat properties,
> etc. for any drives.
> Thus my only criteria so far has been manufacturer warranty: How much
> bitching do I get when I tell them my drive doesn't work.
>
> My main experience is with Maxtor.
> Maxtor has been none less than superb wrt. warranty!
> Download an ISO with a diag tool, burn the CD, boot the CD, type in
> the fault code it prints on Maxtor's site, and a day or two later
> you've got a new drive in the mail and packaging to ship the old one
> back in. If something odd happens, call them up and they're extremely
> helpful.
>
> Unfortunately, I lack thorough experience with the other brands.
>
>
> Questions:
> ===========
>
> A.) Does anyone have experience with returning Hitachi, Seagate or WD
> drives to the manufacturer?
> Do they have manufacturer warranty at all?
> How much/little trouble did you have with Hitachi, Seagate or WD?
>
> B.) Can anyone *prove* (to a reasonable degree) that drives from
> manufacturer H, M, S or WD is of better quality?
> Has anyone seen a review that heat/shock/stress test drives?
>
> C.) Does good SATA cables exist?
> Eg. cables that lock on to the drives, or backplanes which lock
> the entire disk in place?
>
>
> Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for answers (if any) :-).
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
I've experienced consumer-class drive failures with Seagate, Western
Digital, and Maxtor. WD is the only one I've had catastrophically fail on
me -- the rest developed bad sectors slowly enough to catch. I have yet to
have a Hitachi drive fail. WD got a bad name with me when they sold drives
under the same model number while changing to different drives (assembled
in Thailand) that performend considerably slower than the originals (from
Malaysia).
Warranty experiences with Western Digital, Maxtor, and Seagate have been
pleasant and quick (although WD and Maxtor sent me refurbished disks).
I've never been refused a drive replacement. Maxtor required me to
generate a code with their proprietary tool before the website would even
talk about a replacement; a way around this was to select "Drive doesn't
spin up" as the symptom :-P
Consumer-level drives are made primarily with volume and profit margin in
mind. If reliability is a chief concern, most server-class drives are
designed with longer service life and higher reliability in mind. If price
is paramount, as you said, go for the most inexpensive disk with the
longest warranty.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: ATA cables and drives
2006-09-16 13:16 ATA cables and drives Molle Bestefich
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2006-09-21 18:38 ` Rob Bray
@ 2006-09-21 18:38 ` Rob Bray
2006-09-24 9:25 ` Molle Bestefich
4 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Rob Bray @ 2006-09-21 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Molle Bestefich; +Cc: linux-raid
> I'm looking for new harddrives.
>
> This is my experience so far.
>
>
> SATA cables:
> =============
>
> I have zero good experiences with any SATA cables.
> They've all been crap so far.
>
>
> 3.5" ATA harddrives buyable where I live:
> ==========================================
>
> (All drives are 7200rpm, for some reason.)
>
> Hitachi "DeskStar" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
> Maxtor "DiamondMax 11" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
> Maxtor "MaXLine Pro" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 500 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.10" 750 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 500 GB / 16 MB / 11 ms / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda 7200.9" 500 GB / 8 MB / 11 ms / SATA or PATA
> Seagate "Barracuda ES" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA
> Seagate "Barracuda ES" 750 GB / 16 MB / 8.5 ms / SATA
> Seagate "ESATA" 500 GB / 16 MB / ? / SATA (external)
> Seagate "NL35.2 ST3500641NS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8 ms / ? / SATA
> Seagate "NL35.2 ST3500841NS" 500 GB / 8 MB / 8 ms / ? / SATA
> Western Digital "SE16 WD5000KS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.9 ms / SATA
> Western Digital "RE2 WD5000YS" 500 GB / 16 MB / 8.7 ms / SATA
>
> I've tried Maxtor and IBM (now Hitachi) harddrives.
> Both makes have failed on me, but most of the time due to horrible
> packaging.
>
> I don't care a split-second whether one kind is marginally faster than
> the other, so all the reviews on AnandTech etc. are utterly useless to
> me. There's an infinite number of more effective ways to get better
> performance than to buy a slightly faster harddrive.
>
> I DO care about quality, namely:
> * How often the drives has catastrophic failure,
> * How they handle heat (dissipation & acceptance - how hot before it
> fails?),
> * How big the spare area is,
> * How often they have single-sector failures,
> * How long the manufacturer warranty lasts,
> * How easy the manufacturer is to work with wrt. warranty.
>
> I haven't been able to figure the spare area size, heat properties,
> etc. for any drives.
> Thus my only criteria so far has been manufacturer warranty: How much
> bitching do I get when I tell them my drive doesn't work.
>
> My main experience is with Maxtor.
> Maxtor has been none less than superb wrt. warranty!
> Download an ISO with a diag tool, burn the CD, boot the CD, type in
> the fault code it prints on Maxtor's site, and a day or two later
> you've got a new drive in the mail and packaging to ship the old one
> back in. If something odd happens, call them up and they're extremely
> helpful.
>
> Unfortunately, I lack thorough experience with the other brands.
>
>
> Questions:
> ===========
>
> A.) Does anyone have experience with returning Hitachi, Seagate or WD
> drives to the manufacturer?
> Do they have manufacturer warranty at all?
> How much/little trouble did you have with Hitachi, Seagate or WD?
>
> B.) Can anyone *prove* (to a reasonable degree) that drives from
> manufacturer H, M, S or WD is of better quality?
> Has anyone seen a review that heat/shock/stress test drives?
>
> C.) Does good SATA cables exist?
> Eg. cables that lock on to the drives, or backplanes which lock
> the entire disk in place?
>
>
> Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for answers (if any) :-).
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
I've experienced consumer-class drive failures with Seagate, Western
Digital, and Maxtor. WD is the only one I've had catastrophically fail on
me -- the rest developed bad sectors slowly enough to catch. I have yet to
have a Hitachi drive fail. WD got a bad name with me when they sold drives
under the same model number while changing to different drives (assembled
in Thailand) that performend considerably slower than the originals (from
Malaysia).
Warranty experiences with Western Digital, Maxtor, and Seagate have been
pleasant and quick (although WD and Maxtor sent me refurbished disks).
I've never been refused a drive replacement. Maxtor required me to
generate a code with their proprietary tool before the website would even
talk about a replacement; a way around this was to select "Drive doesn't
spin up" as the symptom :-P
Consumer-level drives are made primarily with volume and profit margin in
mind. If reliability is a chief concern, most server-class drives are
designed with longer service life and higher reliability in mind. If price
is paramount, as you said, go for the most inexpensive disk with the
longest warranty.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread