Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] RISC-V: Add dynamic TSO support

From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: "Christoph Müllner" <christoph.muellner@vrull.eu>
Cc: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	"Palmer Dabbelt" <palmer@dabbelt.com>,
	"Paul Walmsley" <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	"Albert Ou" <aou@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Shuah Khan" <shuah@kernel.org>,
	"Jonathan Corbet" <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"Anup Patel" <apatel@ventanamicro.com>,
	"Philipp Tomsich" <philipp.tomsich@vrull.eu>,
	"Andrew Jones" <ajones@ventanamicro.com>,
	"Guo Ren" <guoren@kernel.org>,
	"Daniel Henrique Barboza" <dbarboza@ventanamicro.com>,
	"Conor Dooley" <conor.dooley@microchip.com>,
	"Björn Töpel" <bjorn@rivosinc.com>,
	"Alan Stern" <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	"Andrea Parri" <parri.andrea@gmail.com>,
	"Will Deacon" <will@kernel.org>,
	"Daniel Lustig" <dlustig@nvidia.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] RISC-V: Add dynamic TSO support
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2023 12:49:06 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20231124114906.GR3818@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEg0e7j1AvzTyaQ45wUP9QnsMpCG=ZMzcLNFYhGPPSgAwsty6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 11:53:06AM +0100, Christoph Müllner wrote:

> > I think ARM64 approached this problem by adding the
> > load-acquire/store-release instructions and for TSO based code,
> > translate into those (eg. x86 -> arm64 transpilers).
> >
> > IIRC Risc-V actually has such instructions as well, so *why* are you
> > doing this?!?!
> 
> Not needing a transpiler is already a benefit.

This don't make sense, native risc-v stuff knows about the weak stuff,
its your natve model. The only reason you would ever need this dynamic
TSO stuff, is if you're going to run code that's written for some other
platform (notably x86).

> And the DTSO approach also covers the cases where transpilers can't be used
> (e.g. binary-only executables or libraries).

Uhh.. have you looked at the x86-on-arm64 things? That's all binary to
binary magic.

> We are also working on extending ld.so such, that it switches to DTSO
> (if available) in case the user wants to start an executable that was
> compiled for Ztso or loads a library that was compiled for Ztso.
> This would utilize the API that is introduced in this patchset.

I mean, sure, but *why* would you do this to your users? Who would want
to build a native risc-v tso binary?

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