rt-tests release tarball location

rt-tests release tarball location

[Thomas Petazzoni]

Hello,

I am one of the co-maintainers of Buildroot, an embedded Linux build
system. Among many other packages, we obviously have rt-tests as one of
our packages. When rt-tests is built, we download it from kernel.org.
Unfortunately, the rt-tests tarballs are moved around: the latest
release is available at https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/,
but as soon as another newer release is available, the older release
tarballs get moved to
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/.

This breaks the build for build systems such as Buildroot, that expect
a release tarball to stay at a given location, and not being moved
around.

Would it possible to keep the tarballs at the same location? Either by
not having the older/ folder entirely, or by populating it immediately
with the latest release, so that all releases are always available from
the older/ folder?

Thanks a lot for your support!

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, co-owner and CEO, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering and training
https://bootlin.com

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Kurt Kanzenbach]

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On Sat Dec 28 2024, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am one of the co-maintainers of Buildroot, an embedded Linux build
> system. Among many other packages, we obviously have rt-tests as one of
> our packages. When rt-tests is built, we download it from kernel.org.
> Unfortunately, the rt-tests tarballs are moved around: the latest
> release is available at https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/,
> but as soon as another newer release is available, the older release
> tarballs get moved to
> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/.
>
> This breaks the build for build systems such as Buildroot, that expect
> a release tarball to stay at a given location, and not being moved
> around.
>
> Would it possible to keep the tarballs at the same location? Either by
> not having the older/ folder entirely, or by populating it immediately
> with the latest release, so that all releases are always available from
> the older/ folder?

+1

For Gentoo I had to add both URLs to SRC_URI in the ebuilds. It first
tries rt-tests/ and then rt-tests/older/ location, which is also not
ideal.

Thanks,
Kurt

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Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Sebastian Andrzej Siewior]

+John, +Clark
On 2025-01-07 10:41:37 [+0100], Kurt Kanzenbach wrote:
> On Sat Dec 28 2024, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am one of the co-maintainers of Buildroot, an embedded Linux build
> > system. Among many other packages, we obviously have rt-tests as one of
> > our packages. When rt-tests is built, we download it from kernel.org.
> > Unfortunately, the rt-tests tarballs are moved around: the latest
> > release is available at https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/,
> > but as soon as another newer release is available, the older release
> > tarballs get moved to
> > https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/.
> >
> > This breaks the build for build systems such as Buildroot, that expect
> > a release tarball to stay at a given location, and not being moved
> > around.
> >
> > Would it possible to keep the tarballs at the same location? Either by
> > not having the older/ folder entirely, or by populating it immediately
> > with the latest release, so that all releases are always available from
> > the older/ folder?

John, any favorites?

> +1
> 
> For Gentoo I had to add both URLs to SRC_URI in the ebuilds. It first
> tries rt-tests/ and then rt-tests/older/ location, which is also not
> ideal.
>
> Thanks,
> Kurt

Sebastian

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[John Kacur]

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, Sebastian Andrzej Siewior wrote:

> +John, +Clark
> On 2025-01-07 10:41:37 [+0100], Kurt Kanzenbach wrote:
> > On Sat Dec 28 2024, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am one of the co-maintainers of Buildroot, an embedded Linux build
> > > system. Among many other packages, we obviously have rt-tests as one of
> > > our packages. When rt-tests is built, we download it from kernel.org.
> > > Unfortunately, the rt-tests tarballs are moved around: the latest
> > > release is available at https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/,
> > > but as soon as another newer release is available, the older release
> > > tarballs get moved to
> > > https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/.
> > >
> > > This breaks the build for build systems such as Buildroot, that expect
> > > a release tarball to stay at a given location, and not being moved
> > > around.
> > >
> > > Would it possible to keep the tarballs at the same location? Either by
> > > not having the older/ folder entirely, or by populating it immediately
> > > with the latest release, so that all releases are always available from
> > > the older/ folder?
> 
> John, any favorites?
> 

We've been doing this for 15+ years. Normally I would expect the package 
creators to come-up with a work around and not expect the people offering 
the packages to accomdate your packaging software.

How many kernels back to you need to keep? Could we come up with a 
compromise where we keep the newest kernel, plus say the last 3 in the 
rt-tests directory before they get moved to the older directory?

John

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Crystal Wood]

On Wed, 2025-01-08 at 13:21 -0500, John Kacur wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, Sebastian Andrzej Siewior wrote:
> 
> > +John, +Clark
> > On 2025-01-07 10:41:37 [+0100], Kurt Kanzenbach wrote:
> > > On Sat Dec 28 2024, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > I am one of the co-maintainers of Buildroot, an embedded Linux build
> > > > system. Among many other packages, we obviously have rt-tests as one of
> > > > our packages. When rt-tests is built, we download it from kernel.org.
> > > > Unfortunately, the rt-tests tarballs are moved around: the latest
> > > > release is available at https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/,
> > > > but as soon as another newer release is available, the older release
> > > > tarballs get moved to
> > > > https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/.
> > > > 
> > > > This breaks the build for build systems such as Buildroot, that expect
> > > > a release tarball to stay at a given location, and not being moved
> > > > around.
> > > > 
> > > > Would it possible to keep the tarballs at the same location? Either by
> > > > not having the older/ folder entirely, or by populating it immediately
> > > > with the latest release, so that all releases are always available from
> > > > the older/ folder?
> > 
> > John, any favorites?
> > 
> 
> We've been doing this for 15+ years. Normally I would expect the package 
> creators to come-up with a work around and not expect the people offering 
> the packages to accomdate your packaging software.

Even when the status quo is both weird (unstable URLs are bad in
general) and has caused issues for multiple packagers, and there's a
simple fix?

> 
> How many kernels back to you need to keep? Could we come up with a 
> compromise where we keep the newest kernel, plus say the last 3 in the 
> rt-tests directory before they get moved to the older directory?

Or just don't move anything, and keep everything in "older" including
the latest release, with the latest release also being in the current
spot (i.e. Thomas's second suggestion).

Or turn older/ into a symlink to the current directory, for
compatibility only, maybe with a "latest" symlink to the current
release.

-Crystal

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Sebastian Andrzej Siewior]

On 2025-01-08 13:21:19 [-0500], John Kacur wrote:
> We've been doing this for 15+ years. Normally I would expect the package 
> creators to come-up with a work around and not expect the people offering 
> the packages to accomdate your packaging software.

This does not mean it does not deserve to be fixed once people complain.
Debian and Fedora download the source package and host it themself so
they don't rely on upstream's copy of it. Other, such as buildroot or
Gentoo or even yocto download it on every request.

> How many kernels back to you need to keep? Could we come up with a 
> compromise where we keep the newest kernel, plus say the last 3 in the 
> rt-tests directory before they get moved to the older directory?

What I am asking is to either please keep all rt-tests releases in
	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/

but this would also mean that the older folder becomes removed and this
might upset more people.
Then there is the alternative especially if you prefer to have only the
latest release on top to please keep all releases in
	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/

even the current one.  This does not sound annoying, does it? The latter
is what I do with RT patches while I release them after people
complained so I have the latest release in
	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/$version/
and
	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/$version/older/

> John

Sebastian

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Tomas Glozar]

čt 9. 1. 2025 v 9:06 odesílatel Sebastian Andrzej Siewior
<bigeasy@linutronix.de> napsal:
>
> What I am asking is to either please keep all rt-tests releases in
>         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/
>
> but this would also mean that the older folder becomes removed and this
> might upset more people.

Can't we symlink the older directory to its parent, so that all
releases will be available under both
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/ and
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/? Yes, it's a
bit ugly, but it would ensure the downloads keep working for everyone.

> Then there is the alternative especially if you prefer to have only the
> latest release on top to please keep all releases in
>         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/
>
> even the current one.  This does not sound annoying, does it? The latter
> is what I do with RT patches while I release them after people
> complained so I have the latest release in
>         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/$version/
> and
>         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/$version/older/
>
> > John
>
> Sebastian
>

Tomas

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Sebastian Andrzej Siewior]

On 2025-01-09 11:13:50 [+0100], Tomas Glozar wrote:
> čt 9. 1. 2025 v 9:06 odesílatel Sebastian Andrzej Siewior
> <bigeasy@linutronix.de> napsal:
> >
> > What I am asking is to either please keep all rt-tests releases in
> >         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/
> >
> > but this would also mean that the older folder becomes removed and this
> > might upset more people.
> 
> Can't we symlink the older directory to its parent, so that all
> releases will be available under both
> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/ and
> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/? Yes, it's a
> bit ugly, but it would ensure the downloads keep working for everyone.

kup supports a ln command so that would work, yes.

> Tomas

Sebastian

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Jörg Sommer]

Sebastian Andrzej Siewior schrieb am Do 09. Jan, 09:05 (+0100):
> On 2025-01-08 13:21:19 [-0500], John Kacur wrote:
> > We've been doing this for 15+ years. Normally I would expect the package 
> > creators to come-up with a work around and not expect the people offering 
> > the packages to accomdate your packaging software.
> 
> This does not mean it does not deserve to be fixed once people complain.
> Debian and Fedora download the source package and host it themself so
> they don't rely on upstream's copy of it. Other, such as buildroot or
> Gentoo or even yocto download it on every request.

For the record: Yocto uses the git repository (pinned by commit ID) to get
the source.


Regards, Jörg

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Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[John Kacur]

On Thu, 9 Jan 2025, Sebastian Andrzej Siewior wrote:

> On 2025-01-08 13:21:19 [-0500], John Kacur wrote:
> > We've been doing this for 15+ years. Normally I would expect the package 
> > creators to come-up with a work around and not expect the people offering 
> > the packages to accomdate your packaging software.
> 
> This does not mean it does not deserve to be fixed once people complain.
> Debian and Fedora download the source package and host it themself so
> they don't rely on upstream's copy of it. Other, such as buildroot or
> Gentoo or even yocto download it on every request.
> 
> > How many kernels back to you need to keep? Could we come up with a 
> > compromise where we keep the newest kernel, plus say the last 3 in the 
> > rt-tests directory before they get moved to the older directory?
> 
> What I am asking is to either please keep all rt-tests releases in
> 	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/
> 
> but this would also mean that the older folder becomes removed and this
> might upset more people.
> Then there is the alternative especially if you prefer to have only the
> latest release on top to please keep all releases in
> 	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/
> 
> even the current one.  This does not sound annoying, does it? The latter
> is what I do with RT patches while I release them after people

This option seems the least disruptive from my point of view.
I am now keeping all versions including the current version in
/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older

Thanks

John

> complained so I have the latest release in
> 	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/$version/
> and
> 	https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/$version/older/
> 
> > John
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Thomas Petazzoni]

Hello John,

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:46:01 -0500 (EST)
John Kacur <jkacur@redhat.com> wrote:

> This option seems the least disruptive from my point of view.
> I am now keeping all versions including the current version in
> /pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older

I am getting back to you on this, because the latest version is not in
the /older/ subfolder, i.e the 2.9 version is not in the older/ folder.

Would it be possible to place it here, so that its URL is stable
over time? 

Thanks a lot!

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, co-owner and CEO, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering and training
https://bootlin.com

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[John Kacur]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2025, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:

> Hello John,
> 
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:46:01 -0500 (EST)
> John Kacur <jkacur@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> > This option seems the least disruptive from my point of view.
> > I am now keeping all versions including the current version in
> > /pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older
> 
> I am getting back to you on this, because the latest version is not in
> the /older/ subfolder, i.e the 2.9 version is not in the older/ folder.
> 
> Would it be possible to place it here, so that its URL is stable
> over time? 
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> Thomas
> -- 

Done. Updating my scripts too.

John Kacur

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[Thomas Petazzoni]

On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 15:18:26 -0400 (EDT)
John Kacur <jkacur@redhat.com> wrote:

> Done. Updating my scripts too.

Thanks a lot, much appreciated!

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, co-owner and CEO, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering and training
https://bootlin.com

Re: rt-tests release tarball location

[John Kacur]

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, Kurt Kanzenbach wrote:

> On Sat Dec 28 2024, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am one of the co-maintainers of Buildroot, an embedded Linux build
> > system. Among many other packages, we obviously have rt-tests as one of
> > our packages. When rt-tests is built, we download it from kernel.org.
> > Unfortunately, the rt-tests tarballs are moved around: the latest
> > release is available at https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/,
> > but as soon as another newer release is available, the older release
> > tarballs get moved to
> > https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/rt-tests/older/.
> >
> > This breaks the build for build systems such as Buildroot, that expect
> > a release tarball to stay at a given location, and not being moved
> > around.
> >
> > Would it possible to keep the tarballs at the same location? Either by
> > not having the older/ folder entirely, or by populating it immediately
> > with the latest release, so that all releases are always available from
> > the older/ folder?
> 
> +1
> 
> For Gentoo I had to add both URLs to SRC_URI in the ebuilds. It first
> tries rt-tests/ and then rt-tests/older/ location, which is also not
> ideal.

Why is it not ideal? This seems like a perfectly reasonable solution?

John