Re: realtime kernel for Debian

Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Grammostola Rosea]

Grammostola Rosea wrote:
> Andreas Tille wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Cassiel wrote:
>>
>>> debian stable aims to production servers,
>>
>> That's wrong.  Debian stable aims at production systems.  If your
>> arguing would be true I wonder why stable contains applications like
>> Openoffice.org or audio players or  ...
>>
>>> IMO multimedia users can/should live with
>>> testing without any fear of system crashes and security updates.
>>
>> I guess there are multimedia users out there who care much about a
>> stable system, reproducible results and have to earn some money from
>> their work - so they do not want to deal with unforseable changes.
>> Please do not advertise testing as a release which is ready for
>> users.  (Yes, I admit I use testing in the way you describe - but
>> *I* know what I'm doing.)
>>
>>
> But is not that big problem to install two kernels? One, the default 
> Lenny kernel and an RT kernel from testing?
>
To get some progress here, I'm searching for a person who wants and is 
capable in filing a wishlist bug (with a patch vs. the package linux-2.6

thanks in advance,

\r

Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Uwe Kleine-König]

Hello,

>>> I guess there are multimedia users out there who care much about a
>>> stable system, reproducible results and have to earn some money from
>>> their work - so they do not want to deal with unforseable changes.
>>> Please do not advertise testing as a release which is ready for
>>> users.  (Yes, I admit I use testing in the way you describe - but
>>> *I* know what I'm doing.)
>>>
>>>
>> But is not that big problem to install two kernels? One, the default  
>> Lenny kernel and an RT kernel from testing?
>>
> To get some progress here, I'm searching for a person who wants and is  
> capable in filing a wishlist bug (with a patch vs. the package linux-2.6
Maybe providing a patch package is a better first step?

Best regards
Uwe

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                              | Uwe Kleine-König            |
Industrial Linux Solutions                    | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Grammostola Rosea]

Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> Hello,
>
>   
>>>> I guess there are multimedia users out there who care much about a
>>>> stable system, reproducible results and have to earn some money from
>>>> their work - so they do not want to deal with unforseable changes.
>>>> Please do not advertise testing as a release which is ready for
>>>> users.  (Yes, I admit I use testing in the way you describe - but
>>>> *I* know what I'm doing.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> But is not that big problem to install two kernels? One, the default  
>>> Lenny kernel and an RT kernel from testing?
>>>
>>>       
>> To get some progress here, I'm searching for a person who wants and is  
>> capable in filing a wishlist bug (with a patch vs. the package linux-2.6
>>     
> Maybe providing a patch package is a better first step?
>   
thanks for thinking. Who could provide such a patch package?

\r


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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Uwe Kleine-König]

Hello,

[your To: header was strange, maybe my mail reaches less recipents than
your's]

>>> To get some progress here, I'm searching for a person who wants and 
>>> is  capable in filing a wishlist bug (with a patch vs. the package 
>>> linux-2.6
>>>     
>> Maybe providing a patch package is a better first step?
>>   
> thanks for thinking. Who could provide such a patch package?
I can.  I'd need a sponsor, though.  I know two Debian developers, I
will ask them.

The patch on top of Debian's 2.6.29 is already made[1]---I just merged
v2.6.29-rt1 and Debian's tree.

Best regards
Uwe

[1] Available in my git repo at

	git://git.pengutronix.de/git/ukl/linux-2.6.git debian-rt

or browsable at:

	http://git.pengutronix.de/?p=ukl/linux-2.6.git;a=shortlog;h=debian-rt

The actual diff is at:

	http://git.pengutronix.de/?p=ukl/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=debian-rt;hp=debian/v2.6.29

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                              | Uwe Kleine-König            |
Industrial Linux Solutions                    | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Alexander Reichle-Schmehl]

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Hi!

Uwe Kleine-König schrieb:

> [your To: header was strange, maybe my mail reaches less recipents than
> your's]

Well, at least it reached me ;)

>>> Maybe providing a patch package is a better first step?
>> thanks for thinking. Who could provide such a patch package?
> I can.  I'd need a sponsor, though.  I know two Debian developers, I
> will ask them.

Willing to sponsor as soon as you've got a package to test ready.


Best regards,
  Alexander


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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Uwe Kleine-König]

Hi Alexander,

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:22:02AM +0200, Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Uwe Kleine-König schrieb:
> 
> > [your To: header was strange, maybe my mail reaches less recipents than
> > your's]
> 
> Well, at least it reached me ;)
> 
> >>> Maybe providing a patch package is a better first step?
> >> thanks for thinking. Who could provide such a patch package?
> > I can.  I'd need a sponsor, though.  I know two Debian developers, I
> > will ask them.
> 
> Willing to sponsor as soon as you've got a package to test ready.
Great thanks.  I plan to package rt-tests, too.  Maybe you can sponser
that, too?

Expect me to contact you via irc to go into details.

Best regards
Uwe

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Pengutronix e.K.                              | Uwe Kleine-König            |
Industrial Linux Solutions                    | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Uwe Kleine-König]

Hi,

>>> I was wondering about how far are we with implementing a RT kernel in 
>>>  Debian... Some progress here? Would be nice.
>>>     
>> The patch I created that "fits" on Debian's vanilla kernel creates
>> conflicts on the sources with the Debian patches.
>> I hope to be able to clean that up by minimizing the -rt series (e.g.
>> the first broken out patch consists usually of various bits from the
>> -tip tree that are (AFAIK) not all needed.)
>>
>> So just have some more patience.
>>
>>   
> How are things going? Just interest...
Hhhm, well, I spottet a problem.  The thing is that linux-rt does many
deep changes in the kernel and I won't be able to support the harder
problems.  And upstream probably won't help because the Debian rt-kernel
isn't a vanilla rt-kernel.  Moreover even the broken out rt-patch isn't
nicely sorted (e.g. bisectable, some patches undo changes of other
patches earier in the series etc. pp), so I fear the Debian kernel team
isn't filled with enthusiasm when asked to add an rt variant.

I already thought about packaging debian-kernel + rt for Debian and
vanilla-kernel + rt for a non-Debian package repository such that it's
easy for bug reporters to try out a vanilla kernel.  But that still needs
more work.

I currently investigate how the Debian kernel packages are created.  Any
help is welcome.  Probably the first step will be to create a vanilla-rt
package, but that wont be accepted to go into Debian main.

Best regards
Uwe

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                              | Uwe Kleine-König            |
Industrial Linux Solutions                    | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Grammostola Rosea]

Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   
>>>> I was wondering about how far are we with implementing a RT kernel in 
>>>>  Debian... Some progress here? Would be nice.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> The patch I created that "fits" on Debian's vanilla kernel creates
>>> conflicts on the sources with the Debian patches.
>>> I hope to be able to clean that up by minimizing the -rt series (e.g.
>>> the first broken out patch consists usually of various bits from the
>>> -tip tree that are (AFAIK) not all needed.)
>>>
>>> So just have some more patience.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> How are things going? Just interest...
>>     
> Hhhm, well, I spottet a problem.  The thing is that linux-rt does many
> deep changes in the kernel and I won't be able to support the harder
> problems.  And upstream probably won't help because the Debian rt-kernel
> isn't a vanilla rt-kernel.  Moreover even the broken out rt-patch isn't
> nicely sorted (e.g. bisectable, some patches undo changes of other
> patches earier in the series etc. pp), so I fear the Debian kernel team
> isn't filled with enthusiasm when asked to add an rt variant.
>
> I already thought about packaging debian-kernel + rt for Debian and
> vanilla-kernel + rt for a non-Debian package repository such that it's
> easy for bug reporters to try out a vanilla kernel.  But that still needs
> more work.
>
> I currently investigate how the Debian kernel packages are created.  Any
> help is welcome.  Probably the first step will be to create a vanilla-rt
> package, but that wont be accepted to go into Debian main.
>
>   
Just trying to keep thinks a bit alive here ;)

How are things going Uwe?

Kind regards,

\r

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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[Uwe Kleine-König]

Hello,

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:35:17AM +0200, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >>> I was wondering about how far are we with implementing a RT kernel in 
> >>>  Debian... Some progress here? Would be nice.
> >>>     
> >> The patch I created that "fits" on Debian's vanilla kernel creates
> >> conflicts on the sources with the Debian patches.
> >> I hope to be able to clean that up by minimizing the -rt series (e.g.
> >> the first broken out patch consists usually of various bits from the
> >> -tip tree that are (AFAIK) not all needed.)
> >>
> >> So just have some more patience.
> >>
> >>   
> > How are things going? Just interest...
> Hhhm, well, I spottet a problem.  The thing is that linux-rt does many
> deep changes in the kernel and I won't be able to support the harder
> problems.  And upstream probably won't help because the Debian rt-kernel
> isn't a vanilla rt-kernel.  Moreover even the broken out rt-patch isn't
> nicely sorted (e.g. bisectable, some patches undo changes of other
> patches earier in the series etc. pp), so I fear the Debian kernel team
> isn't filled with enthusiasm when asked to add an rt variant.
> 
> I already thought about packaging debian-kernel + rt for Debian and
> vanilla-kernel + rt for a non-Debian package repository such that it's
> easy for bug reporters to try out a vanilla kernel.  But that still needs
> more work.
OK, the vanilla-kernel + rt is done.  See

	http://mid.gmane.org/20090926171218.GD13150@pengutronix.de

for an announcment and 

	http://www.pengutronix.de/software/linux-rt/debian_en.html

for the documentation how to install it.

Best regards
Uwe

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                              | Uwe Kleine-König            |
Industrial Linux Solutions                    | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
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Re: realtime kernel for Debian

[rosea grammostola]

Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:35:17AM +0200, Uwe Kleine-König wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>>     
>>>>> I was wondering about how far are we with implementing a RT kernel in 
>>>>>  Debian... Some progress here? Would be nice.
>>>>>     
>>>>>           
>>>> The patch I created that "fits" on Debian's vanilla kernel creates
>>>> conflicts on the sources with the Debian patches.
>>>> I hope to be able to clean that up by minimizing the -rt series (e.g.
>>>> the first broken out patch consists usually of various bits from the
>>>> -tip tree that are (AFAIK) not all needed.)
>>>>
>>>> So just have some more patience.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>         
>>> How are things going? Just interest...
>>>       
>> Hhhm, well, I spottet a problem.  The thing is that linux-rt does many
>> deep changes in the kernel and I won't be able to support the harder
>> problems.  And upstream probably won't help because the Debian rt-kernel
>> isn't a vanilla rt-kernel.  Moreover even the broken out rt-patch isn't
>> nicely sorted (e.g. bisectable, some patches undo changes of other
>> patches earier in the series etc. pp), so I fear the Debian kernel team
>> isn't filled with enthusiasm when asked to add an rt variant.
>>
>> I already thought about packaging debian-kernel + rt for Debian and
>> vanilla-kernel + rt for a non-Debian package repository such that it's
>> easy for bug reporters to try out a vanilla kernel.  But that still needs
>> more work.
>>     
> OK, the vanilla-kernel + rt is done.  See
>
> 	http://mid.gmane.org/20090926171218.GD13150@pengutronix.de
>
> for an announcment and 
>
> 	http://www.pengutronix.de/software/linux-rt/debian_en.html
>
> for the documentation how to install it.
Looks like this is great news! Thanks for your time and effort Uwe!

\r

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