From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77E2484E0D; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 08:45:39 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718959545; cv=none; b=W9V149LTYZwZPBY1nGyNejcR0Am39/pJvCgYKmhmW+D0tRREhBqLc28H7OYM8QH5NbAyUgMBRVxDZv1IaHILCusZmmpEzaz312SpVDF7u0wfNSjXzfC+S08HsBTS4NgmN6poiVjEgQl3wQFZqiqp7bD7MD2QICq+Wcpns7UCh3M= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718959545; c=relaxed/simple; bh=octImp/hbb6hih4Mkyk7R+jtYPhN783CY6AS6qpoGjc=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=P8STFBCg1Lx+TuCmmCVkWJqSd4hdZr36SRfSWR1p3UC8rrEqScCTv8qmmrbWU2RfQaS1VduNYLsbZ6p3Skk7C6nE2tHfmkVcSQjRWqLiPNDWYy/XKNKdVK9t7ArCYDVm80Ei7x2gpa40ag2pAQzbb603/Flj6v5btzwjh6XodXk= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=HKtZZyum; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="HKtZZyum" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=octImp/hbb6hih4Mkyk7R+jtYPhN783CY6AS6qpoGjc=; b=HKtZZyum0/94YbgKn50jGSF+TP nNEuEZJ2F+79HcuhkwG3gwZirNbNzoYdet3BSdpTT4y1rbjelXNBaPF4Wpx9wHIuP5Lf+J9DG0/sb 9BlSxsQZZqppfOAmu39n1ZSj0SdNboIMj4KLdVRX3ZRmqk6G9RnZKxqvTSeP2hB441/SXM1RhyE1E R8z0LgWyXQqFBUvKC+aBU5L13zANwdJSRiiXvtOREYBsXiJzSFC6ydbwn5lRb0WNKIPbyYy7h/rRM akzZ2s8oTULtKixjByUdfVs69/JJjIRQNlsgmnRhks660IL0qb3c67tWUATZpBsXXo/Ym2fRxMeyO eMrFbXVw==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:5:79ed:809d:f17f:46e5] (helo=u3832b3a9db3152.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.97.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1sKZte-00000006z9e-0ZVX; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 08:45:26 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/7] Add virtio_rtc module and related changes From: David Woodhouse To: Peter Hilber , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux.dev, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-rtc@vger.kernel.org, "Ridoux, Julien" , virtio-dev@lists.linux.dev Cc: "Christopher S. Hall" , Jason Wang , John Stultz , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Richard Cochran , Stephen Boyd , Thomas Gleixner , Xuan Zhuo , Marc Zyngier , Mark Rutland , Daniel Lezcano , Alessandro Zummo , Alexandre Belloni Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 09:45:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <20231218073849.35294-1-peter.hilber@opensynergy.com> <684eac07834699889fdb67be4cee09319c994a42.camel@infradead.org> <671a784b-234f-4be6-80bf-5135e257ed40@opensynergy.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-HR2p0POzl1PQKfx5bxjB" User-Agent: Evolution 3.44.4-0ubuntu2 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-rtc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-HR2p0POzl1PQKfx5bxjB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2024-06-20 at 17:19 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > > + > > > +=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0/* Counter frequency, and = error margin. Units of (second >> 64) */ > > > +=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0uint64_t counter_period_fr= ac_sec; > >=20 > > AFAIU this might limit the precision in case of high counter frequencie= s. > > Could the unit be aligned to the expected frequency band of counters? >=20 > This field indicates the period of a single tick, in units of 1>>64 of > a second. That's about 5.4e-20 seconds, or 54 zeptoseconds?=20 >=20 > Can you walk me through a calculation where you believe that level of > precision is insufficient? >=20 > I guess the precision matters if the structure isn't updated for a long > period of time, and the delta between the current counter and the > snapshot is high? That's a *lot* of 54 zeptosecondses? But you really > would need a *lot* of them before you care? And if nobody's been > calibrating your counter for that long, surely you have bigger worries? >=20 > Am I missing something there? Hm, that was a bit rushed at the end of the day; let's take a better look..= . Let's take a hypothetical example of a 100GHz counter. That's two orders of magnitude more than today's Arm arch counter. The period of such a counter would be 10 picoseconds.=20 (Let's ignore the question of how far light actually travels in that time and how *realistic* that example is, for the moment.) It turns out that at that rate, there *are* a lot of 54 zeptosecondses of precision loss in the day. It could be half a millisecond a day, or 20=C2=B5s an hour. That particular example of 10 picoseconds is 184467440.7370955 (seconds>>64) which could be truncated to 184467440 =E2=80=94 losing about = 4PPB (a third of a millisecond a day; 14=C2=B5s an hour). So yeah, I suppose a 'shift' field could make sense. It's easy enough to consume on the guest side as it doesn't really perturb the 128-bit multiplication very much; especially if we don't let it be negative. And implementations *can* just set it to zero. It hurts nobody. Or were you thinking of just using a fixed shift like (seconds>>80) instead? --=-HR2p0POzl1PQKfx5bxjB Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEkQw ggYQMIID+KADAgECAhBNlCwQ1DvglAnFgS06KwZPMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMIGIMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzETMBEGA1UECBMKTmV3IEplcnNleTEUMBIGA1UEBxMLSmVyc2V5IENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEuMCwGA1UEAxMlVVNFUlRydXN0IFJTQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0 aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0xODExMDIwMDAwMDBaFw0zMDEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGWMQswCQYDVQQG EwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYD VQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50 aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKC AQEAyjztlApB/975Rrno1jvm2pK/KxBOqhq8gr2+JhwpKirSzZxQgT9tlC7zl6hn1fXjSo5MqXUf 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