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Wythe" , Tony Lu , Wen Gu , Peter Oberparleiter , David Miller , Jakub Kicinski , Paolo Abeni , Eric Dumazet , Andrew Lunn , Thorsten Winkler , netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, Heiko Carstens , Vasily Gorbik , Alexander Gordeev , Christian Borntraeger , Sven Schnelle , Simon Horman Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 17:00:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <034e69fe-84b4-44f2-80d1-7c36ab4ee4c9@lunn.ch> References: <20250115195527.2094320-1-wintera@linux.ibm.com> <20250116093231.GD89233@linux.alibaba.com> <0f96574a-567e-495a-b815-6aef336f12e6@linux.ibm.com> <20250117021353.GF89233@linux.alibaba.com> <034e69fe-84b4-44f2-80d1-7c36ab4ee4c9@lunn.ch> Autocrypt: addr=schnelle@linux.ibm.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=mQINBGHm3M8BEAC+MIQkfoPIAKdjjk84OSQ8erd2OICj98+GdhMQpIjHXn/RJdCZLa58k /ay5x0xIHkWzx1JJOm4Lki7WEzRbYDexQEJP0xUia0U+4Yg7PJL4Dg/W4Ho28dRBROoJjgJSLSHwc 3/1pjpNlSaX/qg3ZM8+/EiSGc7uEPklLYu3gRGxcWV/944HdUyLcnjrZwCn2+gg9ncVJjsimS0ro/ 2wU2RPE4ju6NMBn5Go26sAj1owdYQQv9t0d71CmZS9Bh+2+cLjC7HvyTHKFxVGOznUL+j1a45VrVS XQ+nhTVjvgvXR84z10bOvLiwxJZ/00pwNi7uCdSYnZFLQ4S/JGMs4lhOiCGJhJ/9FR7JVw/1t1G9a UlqVp23AXwzbcoV2fxyE/CsVpHcyOWGDahGLcH7QeitN6cjltf9ymw2spBzpRnfFn80nVxgSYVG1d w75ksBAuQ/3e+oTQk4GAa2ShoNVsvR9GYn7rnsDN5pVILDhdPO3J2PGIXa5ipQnvwb3EHvPXyzakY tK50fBUPKk3XnkRwRYEbbPEB7YT+ccF/HioCryqDPWUivXF8qf6Jw5T1mhwukUV1i+QyJzJxGPh19 /N2/GK7/yS5wrt0Lwxzevc5g+jX8RyjzywOZGHTVu9KIQiG8Pqx33UxZvykjaqTMjo7kaAdGEkrHZ dVHqoPZwhCsgQARAQABtChOaWtsYXMgU2NobmVsbGUgPHNjaG5lbGxlQGxpbnV4LmlibS5jb20+iQ JXBBMBCABBAhsBBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEnbAAstJ1IDCl9y3cr+Q/Fej CYJAFAmWVooIFCQWP+TMACgkQr+Q/FejCYJCmLg/+OgZD6wTjooE77/ZHmW6Egb5nUH6DU+2nMHMH UupkE3dKuLcuzI4aEf/6wGG2xF/LigMRrbb1iKRVk/VG/swyLh/OBOTh8cJnhdmURnj3jhaefzslA 1wTHcxeH4wMGJWVRAhOfDUpMMYV2J5XoroiA1+acSuppelmKAK5voVn9/fNtrVr6mgBXT5RUnmW60 UUq5z6a1zTMOe8lofwHLVvyG9zMgv6Z9IQJc/oVnjR9PWYDUX4jqFL3yO6DDt5iIQCN8WKaodlNP6 1lFKAYujV8JY4Ln+IbMIV2h34cGpIJ7f76OYt2XR4RANbOd41+qvlYgpYSvIBDml/fT2vWEjmncm7 zzpVyPtCZlijV3npsTVerGbh0Ts/xC6ERQrB+rkUqN/fx+dGnTT9I7FLUQFBhK2pIuD+U1K+A+Egw UiTyiGtyRMqz12RdWzerRmWFo5Mmi8N1jhZRTs0yAUn3MSCdRHP1Nu3SMk/0oE+pVeni3ysdJ69Sl kCAZoaf1TMRdSlF71oT/fNgSnd90wkCHUK9pUJGRTUxgV9NjafZy7sx1Gz11s4QzJE6JBelClBUiF 6QD4a+MzFh9TkUcpG0cPNsFfEGyxtGzuoeE86sL1tk3yO6ThJSLZyqFFLrZBIJvYK2UiD+6E7VWRW 9y1OmPyyFBPBosOvmrkLlDtAtyfYInO0KU5pa2xhcyBTY2huZWxsZSA8bmlrbGFzLnNjaG5lbGxlQ GlibS5jb20+iQJUBBMBCAA+AhsBBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEEnbAAstJ1IDCl9y 3cr+Q/FejCYJAFAmWVoosFCQWP+TMACgkQr+Q/FejCYJB7oxAAksHYU+myhSZD0YSuYZl3oLDUEFP 3fm9m6N9zgtiOg/GGI0jHc+Tt8qiQaLEtVeP/waWKgQnje/emHJOEDZTb0AdeXZk+T5/ydrKRLmYC 6rPge3ue1yQUCiA+T72O3WfjZILI2yOstNwd1f0epQ32YaAvM+QbKDloJSmKhGWZlvdVUDXWkS6/m aUtUwZpddFY8InXBxsYCbJsqiKF3kPVD515/6keIZmZh1cTIFQ+Kc+UZaz0MxkhiCyWC4cH6HZGKR fiXLhPlmmAyW9FiZK9pwDocTLemfgMR6QXOiB0uisdoFnjhXNfp6OHSy7w7LTIHzCsJoHk+vsyvSp +fxkjCXgFzGRQaJkoX33QZwQj1mxeWl594QUfR4DIZ2KERRNI0OMYjJVEtB5jQjnD/04qcTrSCpJ5 ZPtiQ6Umsb1c9tBRIJnL7gIslo/OXBe/4q5yBCtCZOoD6d683XaMPGhi/F6+fnGvzsi6a9qDBgVvt arI8ybayhXDuS6/StR8qZKCyzZ/1CUofxGVIdgkseDhts0dZ4AYwRVCUFQULeRtyoT4dKfEot7hPE /4wjm9qZf2mDPRvJOqss6jObTNuw1YzGlpe9OvDYtGeEfHgcZqEmHbiMirwfGLaTG2xKDx4g2jd2z Ocf83TCERFKJEhvZxB3tRiUQTd3dZ1TIaisv/o+y0K05pa2xhcyBTY2huZWxsZSA8bmlrbGFzLnNj aG5lbGxlQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwEFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQSds ACy0nUgMKX3Ldyv5D8V6MJgkAUCZZWiiwUJBY/5MwAKCRCv5D8V6MJgkNVuEACo12niyoKhnXLQFt NaqxNZ+8p/MGA7g2XcVJ1bYMPoZ2Wh8zwX0sKX/dLlXVHIAeqelL5hIv6GoTykNqQGUN2Kqf0h/z7 b85o3tHiqMAQV0dAB0y6qdIwdiB69SjpPNK5KKS1+AodLzosdIVKb+LiOyqUFKhLnablni1hiKlqY yDeD4k5hePeQdpFixf1YZclGZLFbKlF/A/0Q13USOHuAMYoA/iSgJQDMSUWkuC0mNxdhfVt/gVJnu Kq+uKUghcHflhK+yodqezlxmmRxg6HrPVqRG4pZ6YNYO7YXuEWy9JiEH7MmFYcjNdgjn+kxx4IoYU O0MJ+DjLpVCV1QP1ZvMy8qQxScyEn7pMpQ0aW6zfJBsvoV3EHCR1emwKYO6rJOfvtu1rElGCTe3sn sScV9Z1oXlvo8pVNH5a2SlnsuEBQe0RXNXNJ4RAls8VraGdNSHi4MxcsYEgAVHVaAdTLfJcXZNCIU cZejkOE+U2talW2n5sMvx+yURAEVsT/50whYcvomt0y81ImvCgUz4xN1axZ3PCjkgyhNiqLe+vzge xq7B2Kx2++hxIBDCKLUTn8JUAtQ1iGBZL9RuDrBy2rR7xbHcU2424iSbP0zmnpav5KUg4F1JVYG12 vDCi5tq5lORCL28rjOQqE0aLHU1M1D2v51kjkmNuc2pgLDFzpvgLQhTmlrbGFzIFNjaG5lbGxlIDx uaWtzQGtlcm5lbC5vcmc+iQJUBBMBCAA+AhsBBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEEnbAA stJ1IDCl9y3cr+Q/FejCYJAFAmWVoosFCQWP+TMACgkQr+Q/FejCYJAglRAAihbDxiGLOWhJed5cF kOwdTZz6MyYgazbr+2sFrfAhX3hxPFoG4ogY/BzsjkN0cevWpSigb2I8Y1sQD7BFWJ2OjpEpVQd0D sk5VbJBXEWIVDBQ4VMoACLUKgfrb0xiwMRg9C2h6KlwrPBlfgctfvrWWLBq7+oqx73CgxqTcGpfFy tD87R4ovR9W1doZbh7pjsH5Ae9xX5PnQFHruib3y35zC8+tvSgvYWv3Eg/8H4QWlrjLHHy2AfZDVl 9F5t5RfGL8NRsiTdVg9VFYg/GDdck9WPEgdO3L/qoq3Iuk0SZccGl+Nj8vtWYPKNlu2UvgYEbB8cl UoWhg+SjjYQka7/p6tc+CCPZ8JUpkgkAdt7yXt6370wP1gct2VztS6SEGcmAE1qxtGhi5Kuln4ZJ/ UO2yxhPHgoW99OuZw3IRHe0+mNR67JbIpSuFWDFNjZ0nckQcU1taSEUi0euWs7i4MEkm0NsOsVhbs 4D2vMiC6kO/FqWOPmWZeAjyJw/KRUG4PaJAr5zJUx57nhKWgeTniW712n4DwCUh77D/PHY0nqBTG/ B+QQCR/FYGpTFkO4DRVfapT8njDrsWyVpP9o64VNZP42S+DuRGWfUKCMAXsM/wPzRiDEVfnZMcUR9 vwLSHeoV7MiIFC0xIrp5ES9R00t4UFgqtGc36DV71qjR+66Im0= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-s390@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: tFOXaao-agPI66FgNvnmJn6UA5x8JCIi X-Proofpoint-GUID: -nk7TkdJkG_4ivcAoMNNIpcehcNA6rR5 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1057,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-01-17_06,2025-01-16_01,2024-11-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=472 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2411120000 definitions=main-2501170126 On Fri, 2025-01-17 at 16:02 +0100, Andrew Lunn wrote: > > One important point I see is that there is a bit of a misnomer in the > > existing ISM name in that our ISM device does in fact *not* share > > memory in the common sense of the "shared memory" wording. >=20 > Maybe this is the trap i fell into. So are you saying it is not a dual > port memory mapped into two CPUs physical address space? >=20 Conceptually kind of but the existing s390 specific ISM device is a bit special. But let me start with some background. On s390 aka Mainframes OSs including Linux runs in so called logical partitions (LPARs) which are machine hypervisor VMs which use partitioned non-paging memory. The fact that memory is partitioned is important because this means LPARs can not share physical memory by mapping it. Now at a high level an ISM device allows communication between two such Linux LPARs on the same machine. The device is discovered as a PCI device and allows Linux to take a buffer called a DMB map that in the IOMMU and generate a token specific to another LPAR which also sees an ISM device sharing the same virtual channel identifier (VCHID). This token can then be transferred out of band (e.g. as part of an extended TCP handshake in SMC-D) to that other system. With the token the other system can use its ISM device to securely (authenticated by the token, LPAR identity and the IOMMU mapping) write into the original systems DMB at throughput and latency similar to doing a memcpy() via a syscall. On the implementation level the ISM device is actually a piece of firmware and the write to a remote DMB is a special case of our PCI Store Block instruction (no real MMIO on s390, instead there are special instructions). Sadly there are a few more quirks but in principle you can think of it as redirecting writes to a part of the ISM PCI devices' BAR to the DMB in the peer system if that makes sense. There's of course also a mechanism to cause an interrupt on the receiver as the write completes. > In another > email there was reference to shm. That would be a VMM equivalent, a > bunch of pages mapped into two processes address space. Yes as on a hypervisor which backs VMs with pages one can simply map the DMBin both guests (one mapping potentially being write only) with writes being literally a memcpy(). >=20 > This comes back to the lack of top level architecture documentation. > Outside reviewers such as i will have difficultly making useful > contributions, and seeing potential overlap and reuse with other > systems, without having a basic understanding of what you are talking > about. >=20 > Andrew I understand your frustration. I do think we're making progress here though. For one loopback ISM makes SMC-D usable/testable even on bare metal and then Alibaba is working on a virtio based ISM device and the draft is public[0]. And there is some information on SMC's use of ISM via a whitepaper[1] [0] https://lore.kernel.org/all/Y1IqX2uVpcD7cvRF@TonyMac-Alibaba/T/ [1] https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/system/files/inline-files/IBM%20Shared%20= Memory%20Communications%20Version%202.1%20Emulated-ISM_0.pdf