Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[James Bottomley]

[cc to linux-scsi added since this seems relevant]
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 17:00 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> As I told many people at Vault last week, I wrote a document
> outlining how we should modify the on-disk structures of XFS to
> support host aware SMR drives on the (long) plane flights to Boston.
> 
> TL;DR: not a lot of change to the XFS kernel code is required, no
> specific SMR awareness is needed by the kernel code.  Only
> relatively minor tweaks to the on-disk format will be needed and
> most of the userspace changes are relatively straight forward, too.
> 
> The source for that document can be found in this git tree here:
> 
> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation
> 
> in the file design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc. Alternatively,
> pull it straight from cgit:
> 
> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation.git/tree/design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc
> 
> Or there is a pdf version built from the current TOT on the xfs.org
> wiki here:
> 
> http://xfs.org/index.php/Host_Aware_SMR_architecture
> 
> Happy reading!

I don't think it would have caused too much heartache to post the entire
doc to the list, but anyway

The first is a meta question: What happened to the idea of separating
the fs block allocator from filesystems?  It looks like a lot of the
updates could be duplicated into other filesystems, so it might be a
very opportune time to think about this.


> == Data zones
> 
> What we need is a mechanism for tracking the location of zones (i.e. start LBA),
> free space/write pointers within each zone, and some way of keeping track of
> that information across mounts. If we assign a real time bitmap/summary inode
> pair to each zone, we have a method of tracking free space in the zone. We can
> use the existing bitmap allocator with a small tweak (sequentially ascending,
> packed extent allocation only) to ensure that newly written blocks are allocated
> in a sane manner.
> 
> We're going to need userspace to be able to see the contents of these inodes;
> read only access wil be needed to analyse the contents of the zone, so we're
> going to need a special directory to expose this information. It would be useful
> to have a ".zones" directory hanging off the root directory that contains all
> the zone allocation inodes so userspace can simply open them.

The ZBC standard is being constructed.  However, all revisions agree
that the drive is perfectly capable of tracking the zone pointers (and
even the zone status).  Rather than having you duplicate the information
within the XFS metadata, surely it's better with us to come up with some
block way of reading it from the disk (and caching it for faster
access)?


> == Quantification of Random Write Zone Capacity
> 
> A basic guideline is that for 4k blocks and zones of 256MB, we'll need 8kB of
> bitmap space and two inodes, so call it 10kB per 256MB zone. That's 40MB per TB
> for free space bitmaps. We'll want to suport at least 1 million inodes per TB,
> so that's another 512MB per TB, plus another 256MB per TB for directory
> structures. There's other bits and pieces of metadata as well (attribute space,
> internal freespace btrees, reverse map btrees, etc.
> 
> So, at minimum we will probably need at least 2GB of random write space per TB
> of SMR zone data space. Plus a couple of GB for the journal if we want the easy
> option. For those drive vendors out there that are listening and want good
> performance, replace the CMR region with a SSD....

This seems to be a place where standards work is still needed.  Right at
the moment for Host Managed, the physical layout of the drives makes it
reasonably simple to convert edge zones from SMR to CMR and vice versa
at the expense of changing capacity.  It really sounds like we need a
simple, programmatic way of doing this.  The question I'd have is: are
you happy with just telling manufacturers ahead of time how much CMR
space you need and hoping they comply, or should we push for a standards
way of flipping end zones to CMR?


> === Crash recovery
> 
> Write pointer location is undefined after power failure. It could be at an old
> location, the current location or anywhere in between. The only guarantee that
> we have is that if we flushed the cache (i.e. fsync'd a file) then they will at
> least be in a position at or past the location of the fsync.
> 
> Hence before a filesystem runs journal recovery, all it's zone allocation write
> pointers need to be set to what the drive thinks they are, and all of the zone
> allocation beyond the write pointer need to be cleared. We could do this during
> log recovery in kernel, but that means we need full ZBC awareness in log
> recovery to iterate and query all the zones.

If you just use a cached zone pointer provided by block, this should
never be a problem because you'd always know where the drive thought the
pointer was.


> === RAID on SMR....
> 
> How does RAID work with SMR, and exactly what does that look like to
> the filesystem?
> 
> How does libzbc work with RAID given it is implemented through the scsi ioctl
> interface?

Probably need to cc dm-devel here.  However, I think we're all agreed
this is RAID across multiple devices, rather than within a single
device?  In which case we just need a way of ensuring identical zoning
on the raided devices and what you get is either a standard zone (for
mirror) or a larger zone (for hamming etc).

James

Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[Adrian Palmer]

Thanks for the document!  I think we are off to a good start going in
a common direction.  We have quite a few details to iron out, but I
feel that we are getting there by everyone simply expressing what's
needed.

My additions are in-line.


Adrian Palmer
Firmware Engineer II
R&D Firmware
Seagate, Longmont Colorado
720-684-1307
adrian.palmer@seagate.com


On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:28 AM, James Bottomley
<James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
> [cc to linux-scsi added since this seems relevant]
> On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 17:00 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> As I told many people at Vault last week, I wrote a document
>> outlining how we should modify the on-disk structures of XFS to
>> support host aware SMR drives on the (long) plane flights to Boston.
>>
>> TL;DR: not a lot of change to the XFS kernel code is required, no
>> specific SMR awareness is needed by the kernel code.  Only
>> relatively minor tweaks to the on-disk format will be needed and
>> most of the userspace changes are relatively straight forward, too.
>>
>> The source for that document can be found in this git tree here:
>>
>> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation
>>
>> in the file design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc. Alternatively,
>> pull it straight from cgit:
>>
>> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation.git/tree/design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc
>>
>> Or there is a pdf version built from the current TOT on the xfs.org
>> wiki here:
>>
>> http://xfs.org/index.php/Host_Aware_SMR_architecture
>>
>> Happy reading!
>
> I don't think it would have caused too much heartache to post the entire
> doc to the list, but anyway
>
> The first is a meta question: What happened to the idea of separating
> the fs block allocator from filesystems?  It looks like a lot of the
> updates could be duplicated into other filesystems, so it might be a
> very opportune time to think about this.
>

That's not a half-bad idea.  In speaking to EXT4 dev group, we're
already looking at pulling the block allocator out and making it
plugable.  I'm looking at doing a clean re-write anyway for SMR.
However, the question I have is in Cow vs non-CoW system differences
for allocation preferences, and what other changes need to be made in
*all* the file systems.

>
>> == Data zones
>>
>> What we need is a mechanism for tracking the location of zones (i.e. start LBA),
>> free space/write pointers within each zone, and some way of keeping track of
>> that information across mounts. If we assign a real time bitmap/summary inode
>> pair to each zone, we have a method of tracking free space in the zone. We can
>> use the existing bitmap allocator with a small tweak (sequentially ascending,
>> packed extent allocation only) to ensure that newly written blocks are allocated
>> in a sane manner.
>>
>> We're going to need userspace to be able to see the contents of these inodes;
>> read only access wil be needed to analyse the contents of the zone, so we're
>> going to need a special directory to expose this information. It would be useful
>> to have a ".zones" directory hanging off the root directory that contains all
>> the zone allocation inodes so userspace can simply open them.
>
> The ZBC standard is being constructed.  However, all revisions agree
> that the drive is perfectly capable of tracking the zone pointers (and
> even the zone status).  Rather than having you duplicate the information
> within the XFS metadata, surely it's better with us to come up with some
> block way of reading it from the disk (and caching it for faster
> access)?
>

In discussions with Dr. Reinecke, it seems extremely prudent to have a
kernel cache somewhere.  The SD driver would be the base for updating
the cache, but it would need to be available to the allocators, the
/sys fs for userspace utilities, and possibly other processes.  In
EXT4, I don't think it's feasible to have the cache -- however, the
metadata will MIRROR the cache ( BG# = Zone#, databitmap = WP, etc)

>
>> == Quantification of Random Write Zone Capacity
>>
>> A basic guideline is that for 4k blocks and zones of 256MB, we'll need 8kB of
>> bitmap space and two inodes, so call it 10kB per 256MB zone. That's 40MB per TB
>> for free space bitmaps. We'll want to suport at least 1 million inodes per TB,
>> so that's another 512MB per TB, plus another 256MB per TB for directory
>> structures. There's other bits and pieces of metadata as well (attribute space,
>> internal freespace btrees, reverse map btrees, etc.
>>
>> So, at minimum we will probably need at least 2GB of random write space per TB
>> of SMR zone data space. Plus a couple of GB for the journal if we want the easy
>> option. For those drive vendors out there that are listening and want good
>> performance, replace the CMR region with a SSD....
>
> This seems to be a place where standards work is still needed.  Right at
> the moment for Host Managed, the physical layout of the drives makes it
> reasonably simple to convert edge zones from SMR to CMR and vice versa
> at the expense of changing capacity.  It really sounds like we need a
> simple, programmatic way of doing this.  The question I'd have is: are
> you happy with just telling manufacturers ahead of time how much CMR
> space you need and hoping they comply, or should we push for a standards
> way of flipping end zones to CMR?
>

I agree this is an issue, but for HA (and less for HM), there is a lot
of flexability needed for this.  In our BoFs at Vault, we talked about
partitioning needs.  We cannot assume that there is 1 partition per
disk, and that it has absolute boundaries.  Sure a data disk can have
1 partition from LBA 0 to end of disk, but an OS disk can't.  For
example, GPT and EFI cause problems.  On the other end, gamers and
hobbists tend to dual/triple boot....  There cannot be a onesize
partition for all purposes.

The conversion between CMR and SMR zones is not simple.  That's a
hardware format.  Any change in the LBA space would be non-linear.

One idea that I came up with in our BoFs is using flash with an FTL.
If the manufacturers put in enough flash to cover 8 or so zones, then
a command could be implemented to allow the flash to be assigned to
zones.  That way, a limited number of CMR zones can be placed anywhere
on the disk without disrupting format or LBA space.  However, ZAC/ZBC
is to be applied to flash also...

>
>> === Crash recovery
>>
>> Write pointer location is undefined after power failure. It could be at an old
>> location, the current location or anywhere in between. The only guarantee that
>> we have is that if we flushed the cache (i.e. fsync'd a file) then they will at
>> least be in a position at or past the location of the fsync.
>>
>> Hence before a filesystem runs journal recovery, all it's zone allocation write
>> pointers need to be set to what the drive thinks they are, and all of the zone
>> allocation beyond the write pointer need to be cleared. We could do this during
>> log recovery in kernel, but that means we need full ZBC awareness in log
>> recovery to iterate and query all the zones.
>
> If you just use a cached zone pointer provided by block, this should
> never be a problem because you'd always know where the drive thought the
> pointer was.

This would require a look at the order of updating the stack
information, and also WCD vs WCE behavior.  As for the WP, the spec
says that any data after the WP is returned with a clear pattern
(zeros on Seagate drives) -- it is already cleared.

>
>
>> === RAID on SMR....
>>
>> How does RAID work with SMR, and exactly what does that look like to
>> the filesystem?
>>
>> How does libzbc work with RAID given it is implemented through the scsi ioctl
>> interface?
>
> Probably need to cc dm-devel here.  However, I think we're all agreed
> this is RAID across multiple devices, rather than within a single
> device?  In which case we just need a way of ensuring identical zoning
> on the raided devices and what you get is either a standard zone (for
> mirror) or a larger zone (for hamming etc).
>

I agree.  It's up to the DM to mangle the zones and provide proper
modified zone info up to the FS.  In the case of mirror, keeps the
same zone size, just half the total of zones (or half in a condition
of read-only/full).  In stripped paradigms, double (or more if the
zone sizes don't match, or if more that 2 drives) the zone size and
let the DM mod the block numbers to determine the correct disk.  For
EXT4, this REQUIRES the equivalent of 8k Blocks.

> James
>
>

== Kernel implementation

The allocator will need to learn about multiple allocation zones based on
bitmaps. They aren't really allocation groups, but the initialisation and
iteration of them is going to be similar to allocation groups. To get use going
we can do some simple mapping between inode AG and data AZ mapping so that we
keep some form of locality to related data (e.g. grouping of data by parent
directory).

We can do simple things first - simply rotoring allocation across zones will get
us moving very quickly, and then we can refine it once we have more than just a
proof of concept prototype.

Optimising data allocation for SMR is going to be tricky, and I hope to be able
to leave that to drive vendor engineers....

Ideally, we won't need a zbc interface in the kernel, except to erase zones.
I'd like to see an interface that doesn't even require that. For example, we
issue a discard (TRIM) on an entire  zone and that erases it and
resets the write
pointer. This way we need no new infrastructure at the filesystem layer to
implement SMR awareness. In effect, the kernel isn't even aware that it's an SMR
drive underneath it.


Dr. Reinecke has already done the Discard/TRIM stuff.  However, he's
as of yet ignored the zone management pieces.  I have thought
(briefly) of the possible need for a new allocator:  the group
allocator.  As there can only be a few (relatively) zones available at
any one time, We might need a mechanism to tell which are available
and which are not.  The stack will have to collectively work together
to find a way to request and use zones in an orderly fashion.



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Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[James Bottomley]

On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 12:23 -0600, Adrian Palmer wrote:
[...]
> >> == Data zones
> >>
> >> What we need is a mechanism for tracking the location of zones (i.e. start LBA),
> >> free space/write pointers within each zone, and some way of keeping track of
> >> that information across mounts. If we assign a real time bitmap/summary inode
> >> pair to each zone, we have a method of tracking free space in the zone. We can
> >> use the existing bitmap allocator with a small tweak (sequentially ascending,
> >> packed extent allocation only) to ensure that newly written blocks are allocated
> >> in a sane manner.
> >>
> >> We're going to need userspace to be able to see the contents of these inodes;
> >> read only access wil be needed to analyse the contents of the zone, so we're
> >> going to need a special directory to expose this information. It would be useful
> >> to have a ".zones" directory hanging off the root directory that contains all
> >> the zone allocation inodes so userspace can simply open them.
> >
> > The ZBC standard is being constructed.  However, all revisions agree
> > that the drive is perfectly capable of tracking the zone pointers (and
> > even the zone status).  Rather than having you duplicate the information
> > within the XFS metadata, surely it's better with us to come up with some
> > block way of reading it from the disk (and caching it for faster
> > access)?
> >
> 
> In discussions with Dr. Reinecke, it seems extremely prudent to have a
> kernel cache somewhere.  The SD driver would be the base for updating
> the cache, but it would need to be available to the allocators, the
> /sys fs for userspace utilities, and possibly other processes.  In
> EXT4, I don't think it's feasible to have the cache -- however, the
> metadata will MIRROR the cache ( BG# = Zone#, databitmap = WP, etc)

I think I've got two points: if we're caching it, we should have a
single cache and everyone should use it.  There may be a good reason why
we can't do this, but I'd like to see it explained before everyone goes
off and invents their own zone pointer cache.  If we do it in one place,
we can make the cache properly shrinkable (the information can be purged
under memory pressure and re-fetched if requested).

> >
> >> == Quantification of Random Write Zone Capacity
> >>
> >> A basic guideline is that for 4k blocks and zones of 256MB, we'll need 8kB of
> >> bitmap space and two inodes, so call it 10kB per 256MB zone. That's 40MB per TB
> >> for free space bitmaps. We'll want to suport at least 1 million inodes per TB,
> >> so that's another 512MB per TB, plus another 256MB per TB for directory
> >> structures. There's other bits and pieces of metadata as well (attribute space,
> >> internal freespace btrees, reverse map btrees, etc.
> >>
> >> So, at minimum we will probably need at least 2GB of random write space per TB
> >> of SMR zone data space. Plus a couple of GB for the journal if we want the easy
> >> option. For those drive vendors out there that are listening and want good
> >> performance, replace the CMR region with a SSD....
> >
> > This seems to be a place where standards work is still needed.  Right at
> > the moment for Host Managed, the physical layout of the drives makes it
> > reasonably simple to convert edge zones from SMR to CMR and vice versa
> > at the expense of changing capacity.  It really sounds like we need a
> > simple, programmatic way of doing this.  The question I'd have is: are
> > you happy with just telling manufacturers ahead of time how much CMR
> > space you need and hoping they comply, or should we push for a standards
> > way of flipping end zones to CMR?
> >
> 
> I agree this is an issue, but for HA (and less for HM), there is a lot
> of flexability needed for this.  In our BoFs at Vault, we talked about
> partitioning needs.  We cannot assume that there is 1 partition per
> disk, and that it has absolute boundaries.  Sure a data disk can have
> 1 partition from LBA 0 to end of disk, but an OS disk can't.  For
> example, GPT and EFI cause problems.  On the other end, gamers and
> hobbists tend to dual/triple boot....  There cannot be a onesize
> partition for all purposes.
> 
> The conversion between CMR and SMR zones is not simple.  That's a
> hardware format.  Any change in the LBA space would be non-linear.
> 
> One idea that I came up with in our BoFs is using flash with an FTL.
> If the manufacturers put in enough flash to cover 8 or so zones, then
> a command could be implemented to allow the flash to be assigned to
> zones.  That way, a limited number of CMR zones can be placed anywhere
> on the disk without disrupting format or LBA space.  However, ZAC/ZBC
> is to be applied to flash also...

Perhaps we need to step back a bit.  The problem is that most
filesystems will require some CMR space for metadata that is
continuously updated in place.  The amount will probably vary wildly by
specific filesystem and size, but it looks like everyone (except
possibly btrfs) will need some.  One possibility is that we let the
drives be reformatted in place, say as part of the initial filesystem
format, so the CMR requirements get tuned exactly.  The other is that we
simply let the manufacturers give us "enough" and try to determine what
"enough" is.

I suspect forcing a tuning command through the ZBC workgroup would be a
nice quick way of getting the manufacturers to focus on what is
possible, but I think we do need some way of closing out this either/or
debate (we tune or you tune).

> >
> >> === Crash recovery
> >>
> >> Write pointer location is undefined after power failure. It could be at an old
> >> location, the current location or anywhere in between. The only guarantee that
> >> we have is that if we flushed the cache (i.e. fsync'd a file) then they will at
> >> least be in a position at or past the location of the fsync.
> >>
> >> Hence before a filesystem runs journal recovery, all it's zone allocation write
> >> pointers need to be set to what the drive thinks they are, and all of the zone
> >> allocation beyond the write pointer need to be cleared. We could do this during
> >> log recovery in kernel, but that means we need full ZBC awareness in log
> >> recovery to iterate and query all the zones.
> >
> > If you just use a cached zone pointer provided by block, this should
> > never be a problem because you'd always know where the drive thought the
> > pointer was.
> 
> This would require a look at the order of updating the stack
> information, and also WCD vs WCE behavior.  As for the WP, the spec
> says that any data after the WP is returned with a clear pattern
> (zeros on Seagate drives) -- it is already cleared.

As long as the drive behaves to spec, our consistency algorithms should
be able to cope.  We would expect that on a crash the write pointer
would be further back than we think it should be, but then the FS will
just follow its consistency recovery procedures and either roll back or
forward the transactions from where the WP is at.  In some ways, the WP
will help us, because we do a lot of re-committing transactions that may
be on disk currently because we don't clearly know where the device
stopped writing data.

> >> === RAID on SMR....
> >>
> >> How does RAID work with SMR, and exactly what does that look like to
> >> the filesystem?
> >>
> >> How does libzbc work with RAID given it is implemented through the scsi ioctl
> >> interface?
> >
> > Probably need to cc dm-devel here.  However, I think we're all agreed
> > this is RAID across multiple devices, rather than within a single
> > device?  In which case we just need a way of ensuring identical zoning
> > on the raided devices and what you get is either a standard zone (for
> > mirror) or a larger zone (for hamming etc).
> >
> 
> I agree.  It's up to the DM to mangle the zones and provide proper
> modified zone info up to the FS.  In the case of mirror, keeps the
> same zone size, just half the total of zones (or half in a condition
> of read-only/full).  In stripped paradigms, double (or more if the
> zone sizes don't match, or if more that 2 drives) the zone size and
> let the DM mod the block numbers to determine the correct disk.  For
> EXT4, this REQUIRES the equivalent of 8k Blocks.
> 
> > James
> >
> >
> 
> == Kernel implementation
> 
> The allocator will need to learn about multiple allocation zones based on
> bitmaps. They aren't really allocation groups, but the initialisation and
> iteration of them is going to be similar to allocation groups. To get use going
> we can do some simple mapping between inode AG and data AZ mapping so that we
> keep some form of locality to related data (e.g. grouping of data by parent
> directory).
> 
> We can do simple things first - simply rotoring allocation across zones will get
> us moving very quickly, and then we can refine it once we have more than just a
> proof of concept prototype.
> 
> Optimising data allocation for SMR is going to be tricky, and I hope to be able
> to leave that to drive vendor engineers....

I think we'd all be interested in whether the write and return
allocation position suggested at LSF/MM would prove useful for this (and
whether the manufacturers are interested in prototyping it with us).

> Ideally, we won't need a zbc interface in the kernel, except to erase zones.
> I'd like to see an interface that doesn't even require that. For example, we
> issue a discard (TRIM) on an entire  zone and that erases it and
> resets the write
> pointer. This way we need no new infrastructure at the filesystem layer to
> implement SMR awareness. In effect, the kernel isn't even aware that it's an SMR
> drive underneath it.
> 
> 
> Dr. Reinecke has already done the Discard/TRIM stuff.  However, he's
> as of yet ignored the zone management pieces.  I have thought
> (briefly) of the possible need for a new allocator:  the group
> allocator.  As there can only be a few (relatively) zones available at
> any one time, We might need a mechanism to tell which are available
> and which are not.  The stack will have to collectively work together
> to find a way to request and use zones in an orderly fashion.

Here I think the sense of LSF/MM was that only allowing a fixed number
of zones to be open would get a bit unmanageable (unless the drive
silently manages it for us).  The idea of different sized zones is also
a complicating factor.  The other open question is that if we go for
fully drive managed, what sort of alignment, size, trim + anything else
should we do to make the drive's job easier.  I'm guessing we won't
really have a practical answer to any of these until we see how the
market responds.

James

Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[Dave Chinner]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 03:06:27PM -0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 12:23 -0600, Adrian Palmer wrote:
> [...]
> > >> == Data zones
> > >>
> > >> What we need is a mechanism for tracking the location of zones (i.e. start LBA),
> > >> free space/write pointers within each zone, and some way of keeping track of
> > >> that information across mounts. If we assign a real time bitmap/summary inode
> > >> pair to each zone, we have a method of tracking free space in the zone. We can
> > >> use the existing bitmap allocator with a small tweak (sequentially ascending,
> > >> packed extent allocation only) to ensure that newly written blocks are allocated
> > >> in a sane manner.
> > >>
> > >> We're going to need userspace to be able to see the contents of these inodes;
> > >> read only access wil be needed to analyse the contents of the zone, so we're
> > >> going to need a special directory to expose this information. It would be useful
> > >> to have a ".zones" directory hanging off the root directory that contains all
> > >> the zone allocation inodes so userspace can simply open them.
> > >
> > > The ZBC standard is being constructed.  However, all revisions agree
> > > that the drive is perfectly capable of tracking the zone pointers (and
> > > even the zone status).  Rather than having you duplicate the information
> > > within the XFS metadata, surely it's better with us to come up with some
> > > block way of reading it from the disk (and caching it for faster
> > > access)?

You misunderstand my proposal - XFS doesn't track the write pointer
in it's metadata at all. It tracks a sequential allocation target
block in each zone via the per-zone allocation bitmap inode. The
assumption is that this will match the underlying zone write
pointer, as long as we verify they match when we first go to
allocate from the zone.

> > In discussions with Dr. Reinecke, it seems extremely prudent to have a
> > kernel cache somewhere.  The SD driver would be the base for updating
> > the cache, but it would need to be available to the allocators, the
> > /sys fs for userspace utilities, and possibly other processes.  In
> > EXT4, I don't think it's feasible to have the cache -- however, the
> > metadata will MIRROR the cache ( BG# = Zone#, databitmap = WP, etc)
> 
> I think I've got two points: if we're caching it, we should have a
> single cache and everyone should use it.  There may be a good reason why
> we can't do this, but I'd like to see it explained before everyone goes
> off and invents their own zone pointer cache.  If we do it in one place,
> we can make the cache properly shrinkable (the information can be purged
> under memory pressure and re-fetched if requested).

Sure, but XFS won't have it's own cache, so what the kernel does
here when we occasionally query the location of the write pointer is
irrelevant to me...

> > >> == Quantification of Random Write Zone Capacity
> > >>
> > >> A basic guideline is that for 4k blocks and zones of 256MB, we'll need 8kB of
> > >> bitmap space and two inodes, so call it 10kB per 256MB zone. That's 40MB per TB
> > >> for free space bitmaps. We'll want to suport at least 1 million inodes per TB,
> > >> so that's another 512MB per TB, plus another 256MB per TB for directory
> > >> structures. There's other bits and pieces of metadata as well (attribute space,
> > >> internal freespace btrees, reverse map btrees, etc.
> > >>
> > >> So, at minimum we will probably need at least 2GB of random write space per TB
> > >> of SMR zone data space. Plus a couple of GB for the journal if we want the easy
> > >> option. For those drive vendors out there that are listening and want good
> > >> performance, replace the CMR region with a SSD....
> > >
> > > This seems to be a place where standards work is still needed.  Right at
> > > the moment for Host Managed, the physical layout of the drives makes it
> > > reasonably simple to convert edge zones from SMR to CMR and vice versa
> > > at the expense of changing capacity.  It really sounds like we need a
> > > simple, programmatic way of doing this.  The question I'd have is: are
> > > you happy with just telling manufacturers ahead of time how much CMR
> > > space you need and hoping they comply, or should we push for a standards
> > > way of flipping end zones to CMR?

I've taken what manufacturers are already shipping and found that it
is sufficient for our purposes. They've already set the precendence,
we'll be dependent on them maintaining that same percentage of
CMR:SMR regions in their drives. Otherwise, they won't have
filesystems that run on their drives and they won't sell any of
them.

i.e. we don't need to standardise anything here - the problem is
already solved.

> possibly btrfs) will need some.  One possibility is that we let the
> drives be reformatted in place, say as part of the initial filesystem
> format, so the CMR requirements get tuned exactly.  The other is that we
> simply let the manufacturers give us "enough" and try to determine what
> "enough" is.

Drive manufacturers are already giving us "enough" for market space
that we see XFS-on-SMR-drives will be seen. Making it tunable is
silly - if you are that close to the edge then DM can build you a
device that has a larger CMR from a SSD....

> I suspect forcing a tuning command through the ZBC workgroup would be a
> nice quick way of getting the manufacturers to focus on what is
> possible, but I think we do need some way of closing out this either/or
> debate (we tune or you tune).

It's already there in shipping drives...

> > >> === Crash recovery
> > >>
> > >> Write pointer location is undefined after power failure. It could be at an old
> > >> location, the current location or anywhere in between. The only guarantee that
> > >> we have is that if we flushed the cache (i.e. fsync'd a file) then they will at
> > >> least be in a position at or past the location of the fsync.
> > >>
> > >> Hence before a filesystem runs journal recovery, all it's zone allocation write
> > >> pointers need to be set to what the drive thinks they are, and all of the zone
> > >> allocation beyond the write pointer need to be cleared. We could do this during
> > >> log recovery in kernel, but that means we need full ZBC awareness in log
> > >> recovery to iterate and query all the zones.
> > >
> > > If you just use a cached zone pointer provided by block, this should
> > > never be a problem because you'd always know where the drive thought the
> > > pointer was.
> > 
> > This would require a look at the order of updating the stack
> > information, and also WCD vs WCE behavior.  As for the WP, the spec
> > says that any data after the WP is returned with a clear pattern
> > (zeros on Seagate drives) -- it is already cleared.
> 
> As long as the drive behaves to spec, our consistency algorithms should
> be able to cope.  We would expect that on a crash the write pointer
> would be further back than we think it should be, but then the FS will
> just follow its consistency recovery procedures and either roll back or
> forward the transactions from where the WP is at.

Journal recovery doesn't work that way - you can't roll back random
changes mid way through recovery and expect the result to be a
consistent filesystem.

If we run recovery fully, then we have blocks allocated to files
beyond the write pointer and that leaves us two choices:

	- writing zeros to the blocks allocated beyond the write
	  pointer during log recovery to get stuff back in sync,
	  prevent stale data exposure and double-referenced blocks
	- revoke the allocated blocks beyond the write pointer so
	  they can be allocated correctly on the next write.

Either way, it's different behaviour and we need to run write pointer
synchronisation after log recovery to detect the problems...

> In some ways, the WP
> will help us, because we do a lot of re-committing transactions that may
> be on disk currently because we don't clearly know where the device
> stopped writing data.

And therein lies the fundamental reason why write pointer
sychronisation after unclean shutdown is a really hard problem.

> > == Kernel implementation
> > 
> > The allocator will need to learn about multiple allocation zones based on
> > bitmaps. They aren't really allocation groups, but the initialisation and
> > iteration of them is going to be similar to allocation groups. To get use going
> > we can do some simple mapping between inode AG and data AZ mapping so that we
> > keep some form of locality to related data (e.g. grouping of data by parent
> > directory).
> > 
> > We can do simple things first - simply rotoring allocation across zones will get
> > us moving very quickly, and then we can refine it once we have more than just a
> > proof of concept prototype.
> > 
> > Optimising data allocation for SMR is going to be tricky, and I hope to be able
> > to leave that to drive vendor engineers....

Maybe in 5 years time....

> I think we'd all be interested in whether the write and return
> allocation position suggested at LSF/MM would prove useful for this (and
> whether the manufacturers are interested in prototyping it with us).

Right, that's where we need to head. I've got several other block
layer interfaces in mind that could use exactly this semantic to
avoid significant complexity in the filesystem layers.

> > Ideally, we won't need a zbc interface in the kernel, except to erase zones.
> > I'd like to see an interface that doesn't even require that. For example, we
> > issue a discard (TRIM) on an entire  zone and that erases it and
> > resets the write
> > pointer. This way we need no new infrastructure at the filesystem layer to
> > implement SMR awareness. In effect, the kernel isn't even aware that it's an SMR
> > drive underneath it.
> > 
> > 
> > Dr. Reinecke has already done the Discard/TRIM stuff.  However, he's
> > as of yet ignored the zone management pieces.  I have thought
> > (briefly) of the possible need for a new allocator:  the group
> > allocator.  As there can only be a few (relatively) zones available at
> > any one time, We might need a mechanism to tell which are available
> > and which are not.  The stack will have to collectively work together
> > to find a way to request and use zones in an orderly fashion.
> 
> Here I think the sense of LSF/MM was that only allowing a fixed number
> of zones to be open would get a bit unmanageable (unless the drive
> silently manages it for us).  The idea of different sized zones is also
> a complicating factor.

Not for XFS - my proposal handles variable sized zones without any
additional complexity. Indeed, it will handle zone sizes from 16MB
to 1TB without any modification - mkfs handles it all when it
queries the zones and sets up the zone allocation inodes...

And we limit the number of "open zones" by the number of zone groups
we alow concurrent allocation to....

> The other open question is that if we go for
> fully drive managed, what sort of alignment, size, trim + anything else
> should we do to make the drive's job easier.  I'm guessing we won't
> really have a practical answer to any of these until we see how the
> market responds.

I'm not aiming this proposal at drive managed, or even host-managed
drives: this proposal is for full host-aware (i.e. error on
out-of-order write) drive support. If you have drive managed SMR,
then there's pretty much nothing to change in existing filesystems.

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com

Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[Dave Chinner]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:28:53AM -0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> [cc to linux-scsi added since this seems relevant]
> On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 17:00 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
> > 
> > As I told many people at Vault last week, I wrote a document
> > outlining how we should modify the on-disk structures of XFS to
> > support host aware SMR drives on the (long) plane flights to Boston.
> > 
> > TL;DR: not a lot of change to the XFS kernel code is required, no
> > specific SMR awareness is needed by the kernel code.  Only
> > relatively minor tweaks to the on-disk format will be needed and
> > most of the userspace changes are relatively straight forward, too.
> > 
> > The source for that document can be found in this git tree here:
> > 
> > git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation
> > 
> > in the file design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc. Alternatively,
> > pull it straight from cgit:
> > 
> > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation.git/tree/design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc
> > 
> > Or there is a pdf version built from the current TOT on the xfs.org
> > wiki here:
> > 
> > http://xfs.org/index.php/Host_Aware_SMR_architecture
> > 
> > Happy reading!
> 
> I don't think it would have caused too much heartache to post the entire
> doc to the list, but anyway
> 
> The first is a meta question: What happened to the idea of separating
> the fs block allocator from filesystems?  It looks like a lot of the
> updates could be duplicated into other filesystems, so it might be a
> very opportune time to think about this.

Which requires a complete rework of the fs/block layer. That's the
long term goal, but we aren't going to be there for a few years yet.
Hust look at how long it's taken for copy offload (which is trivial
compared to allocation offload) to be implemented....

> > === RAID on SMR....
> > 
> > How does RAID work with SMR, and exactly what does that look like to
> > the filesystem?
> > 
> > How does libzbc work with RAID given it is implemented through the scsi ioctl
> > interface?
> 
> Probably need to cc dm-devel here.  However, I think we're all agreed
> this is RAID across multiple devices, rather than within a single
> device?  In which case we just need a way of ensuring identical zoning
> on the raided devices and what you get is either a standard zone (for
> mirror) or a larger zone (for hamming etc).

Any sort of RAID is a bloody hard problem, hence the fact that I'm
designing a solution for a filesystem on top of an entire bare
drive. I'm not trying to solve every use case in the world, just the
one where the drive manufactures think SMR will be mostly used: the
back end of "never delete" distributed storage environments....

We can't wait for years for infrastructure layers to catch up in the
brave new world of shipping SMR drives. We may not like them, but we
have to make stuff work. I'm not trying to solve every problem - I'm
just tryin gto address the biggest use case I see for SMR devices
and it just so happens that XFS is already used pervasively in that
same use case, mostly within the same "no raid, fs per entire
device" constraints as I've documented for this proposal...

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com

Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[Alireza Haghdoost]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:28:53AM -0400, James Bottomley wrote:
>> [cc to linux-scsi added since this seems relevant]
>> On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 17:00 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
>> > Hi Folks,
>> >
>> > As I told many people at Vault last week, I wrote a document
>> > outlining how we should modify the on-disk structures of XFS to
>> > support host aware SMR drives on the (long) plane flights to Boston.
>> >
>> > TL;DR: not a lot of change to the XFS kernel code is required, no
>> > specific SMR awareness is needed by the kernel code.  Only
>> > relatively minor tweaks to the on-disk format will be needed and
>> > most of the userspace changes are relatively straight forward, too.
>> >
>> > The source for that document can be found in this git tree here:
>> >
>> > git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation
>> >
>> > in the file design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc. Alternatively,
>> > pull it straight from cgit:
>> >
>> > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/fs/xfs/xfs-documentation.git/tree/design/xfs-smr-structure.asciidoc
>> >
>> > Or there is a pdf version built from the current TOT on the xfs.org
>> > wiki here:
>> >
>> > http://xfs.org/index.php/Host_Aware_SMR_architecture
>> >
>> > Happy reading!
>>
>> I don't think it would have caused too much heartache to post the entire
>> doc to the list, but anyway
>>
>> The first is a meta question: What happened to the idea of separating
>> the fs block allocator from filesystems?  It looks like a lot of the
>> updates could be duplicated into other filesystems, so it might be a
>> very opportune time to think about this.
>
> Which requires a complete rework of the fs/block layer. That's the
> long term goal, but we aren't going to be there for a few years yet.
> Hust look at how long it's taken for copy offload (which is trivial
> compared to allocation offload) to be implemented....
>
>> > === RAID on SMR....
>> >
>> > How does RAID work with SMR, and exactly what does that look like to
>> > the filesystem?
>> >
>> > How does libzbc work with RAID given it is implemented through the scsi ioctl
>> > interface?
>>
>> Probably need to cc dm-devel here.  However, I think we're all agreed
>> this is RAID across multiple devices, rather than within a single
>> device?  In which case we just need a way of ensuring identical zoning
>> on the raided devices and what you get is either a standard zone (for
>> mirror) or a larger zone (for hamming etc).
>
> Any sort of RAID is a bloody hard problem, hence the fact that I'm
> designing a solution for a filesystem on top of an entire bare
> drive. I'm not trying to solve every use case in the world, just the
> one where the drive manufactures think SMR will be mostly used: the
> back end of "never delete" distributed storage environments....
> We can't wait for years for infrastructure layers to catch up in the
> brave new world of shipping SMR drives. We may not like them, but we
> have to make stuff work. I'm not trying to solve every problem - I'm
> just tryin gto address the biggest use case I see for SMR devices
> and it just so happens that XFS is already used pervasively in that
> same use case, mostly within the same "no raid, fs per entire
> device" constraints as I've documented for this proposal...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave.


I am confused what kind of application you are referring to for this
"back end, no raid, fs per entire device". Are you gonna rely on the
application to do replication for disk failure protection ?

I think it is a good idea to devise the file system changes with a
little bit concern about its negative impact on RAID. My impression is
that these changes push more in-place parity update if file system
deployed on the top of parity based RAID array since it would convert
most of random IOs to sequential IOs that might happen to be in the
same parity stripe.

--Alireza

Re: [ANNOUNCE] xfs: Supporting Host Aware SMR Drives

[Dave Chinner]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 08:12:16PM -0500, Alireza Haghdoost wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:28:53AM -0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> >> Probably need to cc dm-devel here.  However, I think we're all agreed
> >> this is RAID across multiple devices, rather than within a single
> >> device?  In which case we just need a way of ensuring identical zoning
> >> on the raided devices and what you get is either a standard zone (for
> >> mirror) or a larger zone (for hamming etc).
> >
> > Any sort of RAID is a bloody hard problem, hence the fact that I'm
> > designing a solution for a filesystem on top of an entire bare
> > drive. I'm not trying to solve every use case in the world, just the
> > one where the drive manufactures think SMR will be mostly used: the
> > back end of "never delete" distributed storage environments....
> > We can't wait for years for infrastructure layers to catch up in the
> > brave new world of shipping SMR drives. We may not like them, but we
> > have to make stuff work. I'm not trying to solve every problem - I'm
> > just tryin gto address the biggest use case I see for SMR devices
> > and it just so happens that XFS is already used pervasively in that
> > same use case, mostly within the same "no raid, fs per entire
> > device" constraints as I've documented for this proposal...
> 
> I am confused what kind of application you are referring to for this
> "back end, no raid, fs per entire device". Are you gonna rely on the
> application to do replication for disk failure protection ?

Exactly. Think distributed storage such as Ceph and gluster where
the data redundancy and failure recovery algorithms are in layers
*above* the local filesystem, not in the storage below the fs.  The
"no raid, fs per device" model is already a very common back end
storage configuration for such deployments.

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com

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