ide-scsi with ide-hd?

ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Thomas Soddemann]

Hi,

does anybody know whether there is there a possibility to use ide-scsi 
in connection with an IDE HD?
If so, where can I get more information from? By looking at the source 
of ide-scsi I get the impression, that only IDE devices work, which have 
a kind of SCSI origin.
The intention is to use IDE HDs via the ide-scsi driver in connection 
with a special file system (GPFS), since it does not (at least not 
officially) support IDE drives. Single node harddisk performance is not 
really an issue, since GPFS is a parallel filesystem, and it will be 
used with GBit Ethernet, in our case.

Thanks,
Thomas

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
 Dr. Thomas Soddemann     |  Boltzmannstrasse 2
 Applications Consultant  |  85748 Garching
 Rechenzentrum der MPG    |  Germany 
 am MPI fuer Plasmaphysik |
---------------------------------------------------
 phone: +49 89 3299 2694  |  fax: +49 89 3299 1301
---------------------------------------------------

Re: ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Douglas Gilbert]

Thomas Soddemann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> does anybody know whether there is there a possibility to use ide-scsi 
> in connection with an IDE HD?

No, "ide" disks use the ATA standards (reference: www.t13.org)
while ide tapes, floppies and cdroms tend to use the ATA
Packet Interface (ATAPI) which is essentially a SCSI
command set over an ide transport. The command set used by
cdwriters is MMC (reference: www.t10.org ).

> If so, where can I get more information from? By looking at the source 
> of ide-scsi I get the impression, that only IDE devices work, which have 
> a kind of SCSI origin.

SCSI standards (www.t10.org) are essentially split into two layers:
   - command sets (e.g. primary (SPC),  block (SBC),
     multi-media? (MMC) )
   - transports (e.g. parallel (SPI), fibre channel (FCP),
     ieee1394 (sbp) )

The definitions of some important transports (e.g. ATAPI
and USB mass storage) are found at their respective sites
(i.e. not on www.t10.org ).

> The intention is to use IDE HDs via the ide-scsi driver in connection 
> with a special file system (GPFS), since it does not (at least not 
> officially) support IDE drives. 

The ide-scsi driver looks like it is going away in the
2.5 series **. Cdrecord controlled cd/dvd writers via the
sg driver which used the ide-scsi driver to access
ATAPI devices. The SG_IO ioctl inside the sg driver
been ported to the block level so now cdrecord
can control both ATAPI writers directly via their
block devices (e.g. /dev/hdd) and "real" SCSI (or
pseudos like USB and 1394) via their block devices
(e.g. /dev/sdc0).

Unfortunately none of this helps you with an ATA _disk_.

> Single node harddisk performance is not 
> really an issue, since GPFS is a parallel filesystem, and it will be 
> used with GBit Ethernet, in our case.


** Are there ATAPI tape drives using the ide-scsi driver?


Doug Gilbert

Re: ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Thomas Soddemann]

Hi Doug,

thanks for your quick and detailed response.
I guess we have to start beta testing for IBM in that case ;).

Cheers,
Thomas


-- 
--------------------------------------------------
 Dr. Thomas Soddemann     |  Boltzmannstrasse 2
 Applications Consultant  |  85748 Garching
 Rechenzentrum der MPG    |  Germany 
 am MPI fuer Plasmaphysik |
---------------------------------------------------
 phone: +49 89 3299 2694  |  fax: +49 89 3299 1301
---------------------------------------------------

Re: ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Alan Cox]

On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 09:16, Thomas Soddemann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> does anybody know whether there is there a possibility to use ide-scsi 
> in connection with an IDE HD?

Basically no - IDE disks don't support ATAPI.

Re: ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Willem Riede]

On 2002.12.06 05:28 Douglas Gilbert wrote:
> 
> The ide-scsi driver looks like it is going away in the
> 2.5 series **.  
> 
> ** Are there ATAPI tape drives using the ide-scsi driver?
> 
Yes there are. Osst supports the IDE/ATAPI variant of the OnStream
tape drives (DI-30 and DI-50). I have been wondering about what to
do given that I had read before that ide-scsi is on its way out
but have not seen any discussion that covers what to do instead in
all cases. If someone can give me instructions on how to bypass
ide-scsi when driving the DI-30 from my osst tape driver, I'll be
happy to work on that.

I am pretty sure there are also generic ATAPI tape drives, (I have
one I use for comparison) but ide-tape may be what we want to be 
used to drive them (though it is not in great shape either).
If we want to get rid of ide-tape too, Kai Makisara (st.c) would 
have a use for the same ide-scsi-replacement as I'm going to need.

Thanks, Willem Riede.

Re: ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Alan Cox]

On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 13:45, Willem Riede wrote:
> On 2002.12.06 05:28 Douglas Gilbert wrote:
> > 
> > The ide-scsi driver looks like it is going away in the
> > 2.5 series **.  

IDE-SCSI isnt going anywhere.

Re: ide-scsi with ide-hd?

[Andre Hedrick]

Yes they do, but only ones with special firmware.

IE Tivo modified drives.

On 6 Dec 2002, Alan Cox wrote:

> On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 09:16, Thomas Soddemann wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > does anybody know whether there is there a possibility to use ide-scsi 
> > in connection with an IDE HD?
> 
> Basically no - IDE disks don't support ATAPI.
> 
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Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group