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From: James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com (James Bottomley)
To: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org
Subject: [PATCH] security: Fix IMA Kconfig for dependencies on ARM64
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:06:45 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1520899605.4522.67.camel@HansenPartnership.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1520897400.3547.253.camel@linux.vnet.ibm.com>

On Mon, 2018-03-12 at 19:30 -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-03-12 at 15:30 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 2018-03-12 at 17:53 -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> [...]
> > 
> > > 
> > > - This use case, when the TPM is not builtin and unavailable
> > > before
> > > IMA is initialized.
> > > 
> > > I would classify this use case as an IMA testing/debugging
> > > environment, when it cannot, for whatever reason, be builtin the
> > > kernel or initialized before IMA.
> > > 
> > > From Dave Safford:
> > > ????For the TCG chain of trust to have any meaning, all files
> > > have to
> > > ????be measured and extended into the TPM before they are
> > > accessed.
> > > If
> > > ????the TPM driver is loaded after any unmeasured file, the chain
> > > is
> > > ????broken, and IMA is useless for any use case or any threat
> > > model.
> > 
> > I don't think this is quite the correct characterisation. ?In
> > principle the kernel could also touch the files before IMA is
> > loaded. ?However, we know from the way the kernel operates that it
> > doesn't. ?We basically trust that the kernel measurement tells us
> > this. ?The same thing can be made to apply to the initrd.
> 
> With the builtin "tcb" policy, IMA-measurement is enabled from the
> very beginning. ?Afterwards, the system can transition to a custom
> policy based on finer grain LSM labels, which aren't available on
> boot.
> 
> > 
> > The key question is not whether the component could theoretically
> > access the files but whether it actually does so.
> 
> As much as you might think you know what is included in the
> initramfs, IMA-measurement is your safety net, including everything
> accessed in the TCB.

The initrd *is* part of the Trusted Computing Base because it's part of
the boot custody chain. ?That's really my point. ?If I don't know
what's in my initrd, I've broken the chain there and IMA can't fix it.

James

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  reply	other threads:[~2018-03-13  0:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-03-07  5:26 [PATCH] security: Fix IMA Kconfig for dependencies on ARM64 Jiandi An
2018-03-07 18:51 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-03-07 18:55   ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-07 19:08     ` James Bottomley
2018-03-07 19:21       ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-07 19:41         ` James Bottomley
2018-03-07 21:12           ` Jiandi An
2018-03-07 21:16             ` James Bottomley
2018-03-07 22:19           ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-08 18:42             ` Jiandi An
2018-03-08 20:06               ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-09 17:11               ` James Bottomley
2018-03-12 21:53                 ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-12 21:59                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-03-12 22:58                     ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-12 23:05                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-03-12 23:19                         ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-12 22:30                   ` James Bottomley
2018-03-12 23:30                     ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-13  0:06                       ` James Bottomley [this message]
2018-03-13 12:57                         ` Safford, David (GE Global Research, US)
2018-03-14 14:41                           ` James Bottomley
2018-03-14 17:08                             ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-14 17:25                               ` James Bottomley
2018-03-15 16:19                                 ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-15 17:08                                   ` James Bottomley
2018-03-15 17:14                                     ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-15 17:29                                       ` James Bottomley
2018-03-16 16:51                                         ` Mimi Zohar
2018-03-11 22:06 ` Mimi Zohar

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