From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7171C41513 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2023 11:11:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S233293AbjHALLb (ORCPT ); Tue, 1 Aug 2023 07:11:31 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:47684 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S233516AbjHALLL (ORCPT ); Tue, 1 Aug 2023 07:11:11 -0400 Received: from wind.enjellic.com (wind.enjellic.com [76.10.64.91]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63ACE1BF5 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2023 04:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wind.enjellic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wind.enjellic.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 371AsLti023239; Tue, 1 Aug 2023 05:54:21 -0500 Received: (from greg@localhost) by wind.enjellic.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 371AsLAj023238; Tue, 1 Aug 2023 05:54:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2023 05:54:21 -0500 From: "Dr. Greg" To: Paul Moore Cc: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: TSEM feedback. Message-ID: <20230801105421.GA23193@wind.enjellic.com> Reply-To: "Dr. Greg" References: <20230731103822.GA4093@wind.enjellic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (wind.enjellic.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 01 Aug 2023 05:54:22 -0500 (CDT) Precedence: bulk List-ID: On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 10:57:08AM -0400, Paul Moore wrote: Good morning, I hope the day is starting well. > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:39???AM Dr. Greg wrote: > > > > Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well. > > > > We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago. > > > > We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations > > issues that we went on to address. > > > > Haven't heard any reflections from you. Was just wondering if you > > were swamped or had possibly missed the submission? We didn't include > > you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches > > landing in your inbox. > If your mail hits the mail archive on lore.kernel.org, it is almost > a full guarantee that it has hit my inbox and/or the patchwork > instance I use to ensure nothing is missed. So noted. > As one would expect, it takes a good deal of time to review a patch > submission as large as TSEM, and the rather ornate language used in > the documentation only slows the process. For whatever it is worth, as a group, we invested a considerable amount of time, over a period of now 8+ years, in refining the terminology and nomenclature embodied in that document. I guess the only defense at hand is a variant on the alleged response by Austrian Emperor Joseph II to Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail": "It contains as many words, with appropriate ornateness, as was deemed necessary." I believe the case can be made that Quixote/TSEM approaches the challenge of security from a significantly different conceptual basis than a significant body of current art in the field. Legend has it that Dyson and Feynman spent two years talking before they were able to conclude that they were understanding one another, despite the fact they were working toward a common goal. > Rest assured it is firmly on my todo list, but please understand it > will take some time to properly review. In the meantime I would > encourage others to review/play/etc. with TSEM; nothing builds > maintainer comfort quite like seeing reviews from other trusted > members of the community. We respect any time you can afford to this. With respect to the notion of getting others to play with a new technology concept. Security, from an innovation perspective, is an interesting challenge, probably a candidate for a book with my long time trusted consigliere. Who, at the risk of excessive ornateness, would delve deeply into the notion of how structural inherencies act to preclude innovation. > paul-moore.com Thanks for the update, best wishes for a productive remainder of the week. As always, Dr. Greg The Quixote Project - Flailing at the Travails of Cybersecurity