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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 041d0276e058f4541bfd54115b2a4a49; Sat, 05 Oct 2024 16:10:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4eaea237-d259-44bb-a546-26a0558a4453@schaufler-ca.com> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 09:10:08 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: TOMOYO's pull request for v6.12 To: Tetsuo Handa , Kees Cook Cc: Paul Moore , Fan Wu , =?UTF-8?Q?Micka=C3=ABl_Sala=C3=BCn?= , Mimi Zohar , Micah Morton , John Johansen , Roberto Sassu , KP Singh , Jonathan Corbet , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, Casey Schaufler References: <202410041305.544EA7E4E@keescook> <202410041645.27A48DA@keescook> <5b09909b-fe43-4a9c-b9a7-2e1122b2cdb6@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> Content-Language: en-US From: Casey Schaufler In-Reply-To: <5b09909b-fe43-4a9c-b9a7-2e1122b2cdb6@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22645 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo On 10/5/2024 12:10 AM, Tetsuo Handa wrote: > ... It is possible that an attempt to make it > possible to use SELinux and Smack together is a wrong direction. Even if SELinux > and TSEM conflicts about their security models (and cannot be used together), it > might not be something we need to care... In the past I have said that having SELinux and Smack on the same system is the test case for module stacking, but that I didn't see it having a practical application. I have since been presented with a use case that seems reasonable. Because LSM is a mechanism for additional restrictions it is impossible for two security models to "conflict". LSMs *must* be written to allow for cases where access is denied for other reasons. You never get to the MAC check if the DAC check has already failed. If TSEM can't handle what SELinux or TOMOYO decides it shouldn't be accepted. Of course, there are details of the Linux kernel (e.g. secmarks) that prove the rule. These are not issues of "model", but of implementation.