From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECC1B13C695; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 20:53:52 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1742590435; cv=none; b=Ta1iMjN+k4vGr3Woe93xPaJfK//bRcy5RkDPle4Tafo9Qk8rRsh0l+tezXK1fWqSkClTq/O0421IPk2k8wt0kby0wYhWwu5myEUNQJ0vplPEWQB4+G0BJHfbwLxWwas0hIs5t7I/61pyNfoC/Qz6/4Yu8mBmhaomCrUIPswEuWE= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1742590435; c=relaxed/simple; bh=3mziEVFqnm/DilQ76gdsC6EyBbbIXtWkETF0gxcPbqQ=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=QaIykniOa7Ifi4zEZ2o6O5tW66e26ASk1eSVcXAeAHswuK2X6t3Y7GLxtzlb4noryrhH2lqwvRJ+JhTIZpl6FkXkwgi/xumuuJ/N0JyEwqoAEv1xnBeooScEzgDT0UcasjWM/E77jSErT2iiatjIW/3b24e8bEfXyxahjdMFjjk= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=A7eJRPpd; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="A7eJRPpd" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1742590431; bh=3mziEVFqnm/DilQ76gdsC6EyBbbIXtWkETF0gxcPbqQ=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=A7eJRPpdVs9rkIM963gfnF158n6tSi7ZDA7KGUH1/ACOXFfawCoYr1gll5Ec+TuFW Vp6rBiSXxzCDzO8DiiSZO5zoao6Qol8/I9x4oA+wC70OE7zUGv3hS0vk06wq5vZzGY OzZVPNbUwFvcdu2vqe53l/nEmTMkQrAD8I9cN0FU= Received: from lingrow.int.hansenpartnership.com (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::a774]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E62C51C00DA; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6de0d2978abd641ac1e5ddaaf88d1c25ba612a85.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/13] Clavis LSM From: James Bottomley To: Eric Snowberg Cc: Paul Moore , Mimi Zohar , David Howells , Jarkko Sakkinen , "open list:SECURITY SUBSYSTEM" , David Woodhouse , "herbert@gondor.apana.org.au" , "davem@davemloft.net" , Ard Biesheuvel , James Morris , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Roberto Sassu , Dmitry Kasatkin , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Sala=FCn?= , "casey@schaufler-ca.com" , Stefan Berger , "ebiggers@kernel.org" , Randy Dunlap , open list , "keyrings@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-efi@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org" Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:53:50 -0400 In-Reply-To: <15462D72-FED1-4B71-8F16-715CA282D37D@oracle.com> References: <20241017155516.2582369-1-eric.snowberg@oracle.com> <72F52F71-C7F3-402D-8441-3D636A093FE8@oracle.com> <506e8e58e5236a4525b18d84bafa9aae80b24452.camel@linux.ibm.com> <73B78CE7-1BB8-4065-9EBA-FB69E327725E@oracle.com> <1A222B45-FCC4-4BBD-8E17-D92697FE467D@oracle.com> <1956e7f9d60.28a7.85c95baa4474aabc7814e68940a78392@paul-moore.com> <95e7a43a2dd675615a146c56a10abf6921f955f9.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <172F304A-B719-4FBB-8FF5-23B6961A2DCE@oracle.com> <3e400185af56a899a9d93e792ea314292fb2adb9.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <15462D72-FED1-4B71-8F16-715CA282D37D@oracle.com> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Fri, 2025-03-21 at 20:15 +0000, Eric Snowberg wrote: > > On Mar 21, 2025, at 10:55=E2=80=AFAM, James Bottomley > > wrote: [...] > > > =C2=A0 Hopefully that is not the case, since the public=C2=A0 key shi= ps on > > > just about every single PC built. > >=20 > > I don't understand why Microsoft no-longer owning the private key > > is a problem?=C2=A0 Only the public key ships on PCs and that hasn't > > changed (at least not yet, it might have to for NIST requirements > > since RSA2048 is being deprecated). >=20 > A couple concerns come to mind.=C2=A0 First, the vetting process being > done for individuals that have signing authority with the HSM outside > of Microsoft. I'm not aware UEFI has published any information on this. I think the shim-review repo predates UEFI ownership, but I'm sure the maintainers of the repository can answer how they came to be trusted ... > Another would be access control of the HSM.=C2=A0 Especially if it is not > within Microsoft's possession. ... and how they handle the HSM. However, if you're worried about risks to the integrity of secure boot, I'd be much more concerned about the number of ODM motherboard manufacturers who seem to have managed to lose their PK private keys, or keys they placed into db, somehow ... Regards, James