From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp-relay-canonical-0.canonical.com (smtp-relay-canonical-0.canonical.com [185.125.188.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC86814263 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2024 03:05:56 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=185.125.188.120 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1727924759; cv=none; b=DH6yffwtiL3N75urUxSDqFkdJdEmw4j7koxRWw2sgvu13vyf6VAn/zeSO/ivvLY/Pr9VharMiWWAnoPflHW9QEiPHMZeVkibYJYb4BQNBh74IX7IlIKr8Q0X5lU8fro0aCY4MpFGNjEtmjhwdgBQHJH8NgUm8MLFXUpY7hR2imQ= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1727924759; c=relaxed/simple; bh=R0/3VLTmk0IcNQ6jz+qIJFGheLlPqYbslHc33PkZw3U=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=Kh4CICyxSQ0Znt0VtLgeuTbrVnrfGWj8tIIiaSNjLQH6ZuV01PzPpnnfi+aXcFCyJSVrV5rNqJ33Fi8uakxanxAvPIDUnsyXolmp4WPMuxgZmjfKrw3NmjpF2H7gCTZY6DyC3A5Znjjz4pKcTFHtWOg+AF6gjCPNjQfPzN7NyMY= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=canonical.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=canonical.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=canonical.com header.i=@canonical.com header.b=VrtTib7P; arc=none smtp.client-ip=185.125.188.120 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=canonical.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=canonical.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=canonical.com header.i=@canonical.com header.b="VrtTib7P" Received: from [192.168.192.84] (unknown [50.39.103.33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-relay-canonical-0.canonical.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65E3D3F24D; Thu, 3 Oct 2024 03:05:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=canonical.com; s=20210705; t=1727924754; bh=9NSWhLUvNE3M7TROEt/MiEFBePmk6FmDDuCFPYWKFZY=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=VrtTib7PADV/pq6SRTD38bNjqVnXwfYkCZTDdc3hmBeK85e4ouoHRXAtxzfvoBOo7 CKQffgX1Y7Ng1C0xsyv6OKqZNhdBXgJxgv7PUPj7LIzdVv1J5gh3CYdl7Xhc6TUaI7 LvDarn7NgO5t+4DoZQarEX+DcIz4LwePTsy965gNEzHVvXHY+5mfrimdm4gXzqv3Pv tyKVXrxxmtGHLz3FtQ0jkWrb7DVHxixEC/bTZbjZglHHrDV98ynZdcy8KPY0a18o8q cst/iW4BvHdXxYwOWnomQm9I4871SG1sUrFcj4ParTMftEeUkvyIeeDr84vpgemYQp 5ORufLD9WgBAw== Message-ID: <75615335-cb4f-4195-ba28-845153be04ed@canonical.com> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:05:48 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: TOMOYO's pull request for v6.12 To: "Serge E. Hallyn" , Paul Moore Cc: Tetsuo Handa , Fan Wu , =?UTF-8?Q?Micka=C3=ABl_Sala=C3=BCn?= , Mimi Zohar , Micah Morton , Casey Schaufler , Roberto Sassu , KP Singh , Kees Cook , Jonathan Corbet , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org References: <20241003024307.GA833999@mail.hallyn.com> Content-Language: en-US From: John Johansen Autocrypt: addr=john.johansen@canonical.com; keydata= xsFNBE5mrPoBEADAk19PsgVgBKkImmR2isPQ6o7KJhTTKjJdwVbkWSnNn+o6Up5knKP1f49E BQlceWg1yp/NwbR8ad+eSEO/uma/K+PqWvBptKC9SWD97FG4uB4/caomLEU97sLQMtnvGWdx rxVRGM4anzWYMgzz5TZmIiVTZ43Ou5VpaS1Vz1ZSxP3h/xKNZr/TcW5WQai8u3PWVnbkjhSZ PHv1BghN69qxEPomrJBm1gmtx3ZiVmFXluwTmTgJOkpFol7nbJ0ilnYHrA7SX3CtR1upeUpM a/WIanVO96WdTjHHIa43fbhmQube4txS3FcQLOJVqQsx6lE9B7qAppm9hQ10qPWwdfPy/+0W 6AWtNu5ASiGVCInWzl2HBqYd/Zll93zUq+NIoCn8sDAM9iH+wtaGDcJywIGIn+edKNtK72AM gChTg/j1ZoWH6ZeWPjuUfubVzZto1FMoGJ/SF4MmdQG1iQNtf4sFZbEgXuy9cGi2bomF0zvy BJSANpxlKNBDYKzN6Kz09HUAkjlFMNgomL/cjqgABtAx59L+dVIZfaF281pIcUZzwvh5+JoG eOW5uBSMbE7L38nszooykIJ5XrAchkJxNfz7k+FnQeKEkNzEd2LWc3QF4BQZYRT6PHHga3Rg ykW5+1wTMqJILdmtaPbXrF3FvnV0LRPcv4xKx7B3fGm7ygdoowARAQABzStKb2huIEpvaGFu c2VuIDxqb2huLmpvaGFuc2VuQGNhbm9uaWNhbC5jb20+wsF3BBMBCgAhBQJOjRdaAhsDBQsJ CAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJEAUvNnAY1cPYi0wP/2PJtzzt0zi4AeTrI0w3Rj8E Waa1NZWw4GGo6ehviLfwGsM7YLWFAI8JB7gsuzX/im16i9C3wHYXKs9WPCDuNlMc0rvivqUI JXHHfK7UHtT0+jhVORyyVVvX+qZa7HxdZw3jK+ROqUv4bGnImf31ll99clzo6HpOY59soa8y 66/lqtIgDckcUt/1ou9m0DWKwlSvulL1qmD25NQZSnvB9XRZPpPd4bea1RTa6nklXjznQvTm MdLq5aJ79j7J8k5uLKvE3/pmpbkaieEsGr+azNxXm8FPcENV7dG8Xpd0z06E+fX5jzXHnj69 DXXc3yIvAXsYZrXhnIhUA1kPQjQeNG9raT9GohFPMrK48fmmSVwodU8QUyY7MxP4U6jE2O9L 7v7AbYowNgSYc+vU8kFlJl4fMrX219qU8ymkXGL6zJgtqA3SYHskdDBjtytS44OHJyrrRhXP W1oTKC7di/bb8jUQIYe8ocbrBz3SjjcL96UcQJecSHu0qmUNykgL44KYzEoeFHjr5dxm+DDg OBvtxrzd5BHcIbz0u9ClbYssoQQEOPuFmGQtuSQ9FmbfDwljjhrDxW2DFZ2dIQwIvEsg42Hq 5nv/8NhW1whowliR5tpm0Z0KnQiBRlvbj9V29kJhs7rYeT/dWjWdfAdQSzfoP+/VtPRFkWLr 0uCwJw5zHiBgzsFNBE5mrPoBEACirDqSQGFbIzV++BqYBWN5nqcoR+dFZuQL3gvUSwku6ndZ vZfQAE04dKRtIPikC4La0oX8QYG3kI/tB1UpEZxDMB3pvZzUh3L1EvDrDiCL6ef93U+bWSRi GRKLnNZoiDSblFBST4SXzOR/m1wT/U3Rnk4rYmGPAW7ltfRrSXhwUZZVARyJUwMpG3EyMS2T dLEVqWbpl1DamnbzbZyWerjNn2Za7V3bBrGLP5vkhrjB4NhrufjVRFwERRskCCeJwmQm0JPD IjEhbYqdXI6uO+RDMgG9o/QV0/a+9mg8x2UIjM6UiQ8uDETQha55Nd4EmE2zTWlvxsuqZMgy W7gu8EQsD+96JqOPmzzLnjYf9oex8F/gxBSEfE78FlXuHTopJR8hpjs6ACAq4Y0HdSJohRLn 5r2CcQ5AsPEpHL9rtDW/1L42/H7uPyIfeORAmHFPpkGFkZHHSCQfdP4XSc0Obk1olSxqzCAm uoVmRQZ3YyubWqcrBeIC3xIhwQ12rfdHQoopELzReDCPwmffS9ctIb407UYfRQxwDEzDL+m+ TotTkkaNlHvcnlQtWEfgwtsOCAPeY9qIbz5+i1OslQ+qqGD2HJQQ+lgbuyq3vhefv34IRlyM sfPKXq8AUTZbSTGUu1C1RlQc7fpp8W/yoak7dmo++MFS5q1cXq29RALB/cfpcwARAQABwsFf BBgBCgAJBQJOZqz6AhsMAAoJEAUvNnAY1cPYP9cP/R10z/hqLVv5OXWPOcpqNfeQb4x4Rh4j h/jS9yjes4uudEYU5xvLJ9UXr0wp6mJ7g7CgjWNxNTQAN5ydtacM0emvRJzPEEyujduesuGy a+O6dNgi+ywFm0HhpUmO4sgs9SWeEWprt9tWrRlCNuJX+u3aMEQ12b2lslnoaOelghwBs8IJ r998vj9JBFJgdeiEaKJLjLmMFOYrmW197As7DTZ+R7Ef4gkWusYFcNKDqfZKDGef740Xfh9d yb2mJrDeYqwgKb7SF02Hhp8ZnohZXw8ba16ihUOnh1iKH77Ff9dLzMEJzU73DifOU/aArOWp JZuGJamJ9EkEVrha0B4lN1dh3fuP8EjhFZaGfLDtoA80aPffK0Yc1R/pGjb+O2Pi0XXL9AVe qMkb/AaOl21F9u1SOosciy98800mr/3nynvid0AKJ2VZIfOP46nboqlsWebA07SmyJSyeG8c XA87+8BuXdGxHn7RGj6G+zZwSZC6/2v9sOUJ+nOna3dwr6uHFSqKw7HwNl/PUGeRqgJEVu++ +T7sv9+iY+e0Y+SolyJgTxMYeRnDWE6S77g6gzYYHmcQOWP7ZMX+MtD4SKlf0+Q8li/F9GUL p0rw8op9f0p1+YAhyAd+dXWNKf7zIfZ2ME+0qKpbQnr1oizLHuJX/Telo8KMmHter28DPJ03 lT9Q Organization: Canonical In-Reply-To: <20241003024307.GA833999@mail.hallyn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/2/24 19:43, Serge E. Hallyn wrote: > On Wed, Oct 02, 2024 at 04:12:50PM -0400, Paul Moore wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Hopefully by now you've at least seen the TOMOYO v6.12 pull request >> thread; if you haven't read it yet, I suggest you do so before reading >> the rest of this mail: >> >> https://lore.kernel.org/all/0c4b443a-9c72-4800-97e8-a3816b6a9ae2@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp >> >> Of the three commits in the pull request, the commit which concerns me >> the most is 8b985bbfabbe ("tomoyo: allow building as a loadable LSM >> module"). The commit worries me as it brings management of the TOMOYO >> LSM callbacks into TOMOYO itself, overriding the LSM framework. >> Jonathan raises a similar point, although his issue is more focused on >> the symbol export approach itself, rather than conceptual issues >> relating to the LSM framework. I will admit there are some high level >> similarities to this approach and the BPF LSM, but I believe we can >> say that the BPF LSM exception is necessary due to the nature of BPF, >> and not something we want to see duplicated outside of that one >> special case. >> >> As I wrote in my original response to this pull request, this is not >> something I would accept in a new LSM submission and thus I feel >> compelled to speak out against this change and submit a revert to >> Linus. However, as the LSM framework exists to satisfy the needs of >> the individual LSMs, I've tried to ensure that significant changes >> like these are done with support of the majority of LSMs. I >> understand that in a case like this, reverting LSM-specific commits, >> individual LSM maintainers may not want to speak up on the issue so >> I'm going to let this message sit on-list until Friday morning, unless >> I see the majority of the LSMs voicing support *against* reverting the >> TOMOYO commit above (and the other related commit) I will proceed with >> submitting the revert to Linus on Friday. I would prefer if all >> responses are sent on-list, but you can also mail me privately with >> your objection to the revert and I will include it in the count. >> >> Thanks. > > Huh! Honestly, when I read the thread, especially Jon's comments, I was > worried. But getting a chance to look at the patch now, it actually > seems good to me. No one is getting affected unless they enable > CONFIG_TOMOYO_LKM. Even those distros which have been enabling TOMOYO > won't be exporting new hooks without a config change, iiuc. > for now, but when that doesn't get enabled when does it silently change from under us? This is the wrong approach and it is going to force us to disable Tomoyo if it isn't reverted.