From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC992C433FE for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 02:22:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229861AbiKJCWk (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Nov 2022 21:22:40 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:40496 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S232520AbiKJCWJ (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Nov 2022 21:22:09 -0500 Received: from ams.source.kernel.org (ams.source.kernel.org [145.40.68.75]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D08D23BF9 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 18:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.kernel.org (relay.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ams.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA480B8205A for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 02:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50C82C433B5; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 02:22:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1668046926; bh=o8xm1CjLcRVR9h1geVorPKMVCHrBiVQJ4TsI0ltjezE=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=OWPobBndVNSeRFQ44bC5ifeHG9Ol040oE0kSbFOpj5ow7ILDiHeAgjARiyVTi7mvo UCD7/HOHTIZupQcqSuiReMI+/5gVhful0GQOFVfqLHoXJ1OYN9JSubtXEDVn3LZ1n1 Ccs1f0UDjvQptbsJa0eMgtLOBiD0Dm/+2XsGAezhVN1/nkEoMVh7P4x6vyeBIQkxxG RATDPWU1ddBfSiESavLZSTpZhN6y917p/tpsjEG51SX8z6xm0LOVr03/XSPQ9YtHbG RMlRMsvF+FKferJNnKCK1JAgL2kOOQ9eRTpyvjLlWrJvyTo+gWkDD99/PYvxqiS61c GMpGejxC8VaOA== Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:22:05 -0800 From: Kees Cook To: Tetsuo Handa , Paul Moore CC: Casey Schaufler , "Serge E. Hallyn" , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, John Johansen , Linus Torvalds Subject: Re: [PATCH 04/10] CaitSith: Add header file. User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <82e46552-54da-6df5-c451-485991dcb5c3@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> References: <20221102171025.126961-1-penguin-kernel@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> <20221102171025.126961-4-penguin-kernel@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> <20221105024345.GA15957@mail.hallyn.com> <5d31873f-f477-ef5a-591f-6f0195f258a8@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> <20221105234614.GA23523@mail.hallyn.com> <52fdbbe4-cad5-6cd0-9574-2e5efb88a478@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> <4ead148f-1629-22ec-91f3-44c71f70fce4@schaufler-ca.com> <133ffb84-551e-866d-5597-e62a5a39bc05@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> <82e46552-54da-6df5-c451-485991dcb5c3@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp> Message-ID: <7CED07F5-A6FC-46AD-8F9D-ECFC28FE23C9@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: On November 9, 2022 3:57:06 PM PST, Tetsuo Handa wrote: >On 2022/11/09 23:48, Paul Moore wrote: >> If there is a significant >> change, e=2Eg=2E the overall kernel policy towards out-of-tree code, we >> can reconsider this policy but as of right now only upstream LSMs will >> have LSM ID tokens assigned to them; in-development LSMs are free to >> temporarily assign themselves an ID token (which may change when the >> LSM is merged upstream), and out-of-tree LSMs are free to do whatever >> they like with respect to their code, just as they do now=2E > >If in-development LSMs and out-of-tree LSMs cannot get a stable ID token, >developers cannot write and publish userspace tools which make use of ID >token=2E If ID collision happens by use of temporarily ID token, this tok= en >is no longer an identifier=2E That is a pointless and needless constraint >for getting LSM modules created / tested / used=2E You have to let this go=2E You aren't hearing us: this ID reservation proc= ess is not a problem for anyone but you=2E It is the same for all the sysca= lls that get added, and all the prctls, etc etc=2E This isn't a problem for= userspace tools using those, and there won't be a problem here either=2E We will not support out of tree code, so needing ID stability for out-of-t= ree LSMs isn't a valid argument=2E Additionally, not having an LSM built into a distro kernel is a distro ker= nel problem=2E Open a bug with them and get it fixed=2E E=2Eg=2E Ubuntu has= no problem with multiple LSMs: $ grep 'CONFIG_SECURITY_[^_]*[ =3D]' /boot/config-$( uname -r) =2E=2E=2E CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX=3Dy CONFIG_SECURITY_SMACK=3Dy CONFIG_SECURITY_TOMOYO=3Dy CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR=3Dy # CONFIG_SECURITY_LOADPIN is not set CONFIG_SECURITY_YAMA=3Dy CONFIG_SECURITY_SAFESETID=3Dy CONFIG_SECURITY_LANDLOCK=3Dy And they just leave the "exclusive"s disabled at runtime: CONFIG_LSM=3D"landlock,lockdown,yama,integrity,apparmor" -Kees --=20 Kees Cook