Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[David Lawyer]

I'm maintaining the Linux Documentation Project's Serial-HOWTO but it
doesn't cover programming.  The Serial-Programming-HOWTO is supposed to
cover this but it needs a lot of improvement.  Vern Hoxie rewrote it in
1999 but never submitted it.  Instead, a new maintainer took over an old
1997 version and essentially did nothing with it.  Even though the
latest version is dated 2001, it's really just the 1997 version.  So it
needs a new maintainer who will rework it and combine the two versions
(the 1997 and Vern's 1999 which are very much different) or just redo
the whole thing from scratch.  Any volunteers?

You might argue that little has changed since 1997 which is true.  But
the 1997 version omitted a number of introductory topics which needed to
be included (and which Vern included).  However, on my last communication
with Vern, he still refused to submit it (he didn't like having to use
sgml format, especially DocBook and didn't want to maintain it in
sgml format).  He actually wrote it in Linuxdoc Format but didn't like
the rendering the "code" environment, etc.  Statements on the discussion
list about the need to use DocBook and cvs turned him off.  And my
personal contacts with him did no good.  So I'm not even Ccing him, in
part because he is not currently active in discussion groups like he
once was.  Fortunately, both versions use the same license so they may
be merged.
			David Lawyer

Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Gary Frerking]

Gee, did you ever try to contact the "new" maintainer that essentially did
nothing?

I've tried to contact Vern a couple of times, but his email and my email
don't seem to get along very well. I didn't think it would be right to grab
his stuff without his permission.

I've asked others for input, got nada in return.

Now, you look for someone else to take over without even trying to contact
me.

Instead of looking for someone else to do another iteration of the loop;
let's break out, eh? I'm busy like everyone else. I've got a version 2 in
the works, but it's been in the works for awhile now. Not being able to get
in touch with people and not getting feedback from people doesn't help
things when I'm already overloaded elsewhere.

If someone wants to take it over and has the time and know how (and follow
through) to do a good job, then I'll happily step aside -- but I'm still
willing to work on it and I'm not exactly thrilled about your approach on
this.

-- Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lawyer" <dave@lafn.org>
To: "linux-serial" <linux-serial@vger.kernel.org>
Cc: <discuss@en.tldp.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:55 PM
Subject: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO


> I'm maintaining the Linux Documentation Project's Serial-HOWTO but it
> doesn't cover programming.  The Serial-Programming-HOWTO is supposed to
> cover this but it needs a lot of improvement.  Vern Hoxie rewrote it in
> 1999 but never submitted it.  Instead, a new maintainer took over an old
> 1997 version and essentially did nothing with it.  Even though the
> latest version is dated 2001, it's really just the 1997 version.  So it
> needs a new maintainer who will rework it and combine the two versions
> (the 1997 and Vern's 1999 which are very much different) or just redo
> the whole thing from scratch.  Any volunteers?
>
> You might argue that little has changed since 1997 which is true.  But
> the 1997 version omitted a number of introductory topics which needed to
> be included (and which Vern included).  However, on my last communication
> with Vern, he still refused to submit it (he didn't like having to use
> sgml format, especially DocBook and didn't want to maintain it in
> sgml format).  He actually wrote it in Linuxdoc Format but didn't like
> the rendering the "code" environment, etc.  Statements on the discussion
> list about the need to use DocBook and cvs turned him off.  And my
> personal contacts with him did no good.  So I'm not even Ccing him, in
> part because he is not currently active in discussion groups like he
> once was.  Fortunately, both versions use the same license so they may
> be merged.
> David Lawyer
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-serial" in
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Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Alexander Bartolich]

David Lawyer:
> [...] So it needs a new maintainer who will rework it and combine the
> two versions (the 1997 and Vern's 1999 which are very much different)
> or just redo the whole thing from scratch.  Any volunteers?

I had a look on the version shown on en.tldp.org.
Looks nice and cosy.

However, I never saw the new 1999-stuff from Vern.
And and on the few occasions I toyed with serial programming I read
http://www.easysw.com/~mike/serial, not the HOWTO.

> [...] He actually wrote it in Linuxdoc Format but didn't like
> the rendering the "code" environment, etc.  Statements on the
> discussion list about the need to use DocBook and cvs turned him off. 

Not sure whether you are searching a programmer or SGML maintainer.
I am a regular user of minicom, but never seriously fed anything than
a socket to select(2).

I feel confident to solve DocBook issues, though.
There are two things I don't like about Serial-Programming-HOWTO.sgml
on http://cvsview.tldp.org/

1. It is a single file.
   I prefer separate sect1 referenced as system entities.
   But then the whole thing is just 837 lines, real cosy ...

2. The code examples are written inline with <screen>
   This is madness. It it absolutely required to make that
  
      <programlisting><inlinemediaobject><imageobject><imagedata
        format="linespecific"
        fileref="example.c"
      /></imageobject></inlinemediaobject></programlisting

   and perhaps wrap a Makefile around that to actually compile and
   test example.c.

Well, I'd do it if I get a separate directory in CVS.
And if you give me a few weeks time.
And if nobody with more programming experience claims it.

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RE: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Gary Frerking]

>> However, I never saw the new 1999-stuff from Vern.

The useful and/or unique info from Vern (stuff that is tough to find
elsewhere) is in a series of separate files called "blurbs". These
should really be merged in as well.

These blurbs, however, are somewhat unstructured/unorganized and would
require a good bit of messaging to properly work them into the HOWTO.
They also have no licensing information, which is why I tried to contact
Vern to obtain permission to merge them into the HOWTO as appropriate.

>> And on the few occasions I toyed with serial programming I 
>> read http://www.easysw.com/~mike/serial, not the HOWTO.

An excellent reference. When I was getting started, I found this
document to be more useful than the 1997 & 1999 HOWTOs combined. Easily.
By a large margin.

>> There are two things I don't like about Serial-Programming-HOWTO.sgml
>> on http://cvsview.tldp.org/

These would be fairly easy to fix. I simply followed the examples that
were given to me. If you could point me to a couple of good examples of
code being listed the way you describe, I'd be grateful.


-- Gary

Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[David Lawyer]

On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 04:00:38PM -0700, Gary Frerking wrote:
> >> However, I never saw the new 1999-stuff from Vern.
> 
> The useful and/or unique info from Vern (stuff that is tough to find
> elsewhere) is in a series of separate files called "blurbs". These
> should really be merged in as well.

No.  Vern wrote Serial-Programming-HOWTO which is not one of his blurbs.
I looked at his blurbs years ago and made sure that the most important
info in them was also in Serial-HOWTO (not to be confused
with Serial-Programming-HOWTO).  Note that Vern labeled it HOWTO-serial
in his index.  It has two parts, the first of which is the
Serial-Programming-HOWTO with the second part being a rewrite of the
termios man page.  I suggested that he submit the man page to the
appropriate man page maintainer and not to LDP.  Don't know if he did.

See Serial Suite ftp://scicom.alphacdc.com/pub/linux.  "HOWTO-serial" is
about programming the serial port and is much different than
"Serial-HOWTO".

> These blurbs, however, are somewhat unstructured/unorganized and would
> require a good bit of messaging to properly work them into the HOWTO.
> They also have no licensing information, which is why I tried to contact
> Vern to obtain permission to merge them into the HOWTO as appropriate.
> 
			David Lawyer

Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Gary Frerking]

From: "David Lawyer" <dave@lafn.org>
> > The useful and/or unique info from Vern (stuff that is tough to find
> > elsewhere) is in a series of separate files called "blurbs". These
> > should really be merged in as well.
>
> No.  Vern wrote Serial-Programming-HOWTO which is not one of his blurbs.

??

What did I say that indicated I was somehow confused between his blurbs and
his HOWTO?

I'm well aware that they're separate documents, and I have a good handle on
the contents of all involved documents -- I've been through all of them many
times.

I still feel there's info in his blurbs that should be merged into the LDP
version of Serial-Programming-HOWTO (which was my main point). True, you've
merged some of the info into the Serial-HOWTO, but it's really not
approached from a programming point of view (and it shouldn't be).

-- Gary

Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Alexander Bartolich]

Greg Ferguson wrote:
> [...] The CVS request can be easily done. Not a problem on our end.

Well, since nobody stood up and protested I had a first go on the document.

http://tux.bartolich.at/Serial-Programming-HOWTO/
http://tux.bartolich.at/Serial-Programming-HOWTO-03-03-30.tar.gz

Not much changed, but at least the examples compile cleanly now with -Wall.
One of them is incomplete and does not link, and hey, I said nothing of
actually
testing them, but that's why I requested a few weeks time.

What is on schedule, apart from that?

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Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Gary Frerking]

> Well, since nobody stood up and protested I had a first go on the
document.

Hmm.

Well, I said I was alive and well and willing to continue to work on it --
and asked David why he didn't bother contacting me prior to posting to the
list -- and asked you for a pointer to a good example that demonstrated how
to properly address your concerns.

But I guess that wasn't a protest.

If you want to take it over, be my guest.

-- Gary

Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Alexander Bartolich]

Gary Frerking wrote:
> [...] But I guess that wasn't a protest.

Oops. The last thing I want is to be used in an LDP internal feud.
You can have it back again, if you like.
And since I did no content related changes you can remove my
name from the title page.

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Re: Maintainer needed for Serial-Programming-HOWTO

[Gary Frerking]

> Alexander Bartolich wrote:
>
> Oops. The last thing I want is to be used in an LDP internal feud.
> You can have it back again, if you like.
> And since I did no content related changes you can remove my
> name from the title page.

No sweat, Alexander.

I don't think it's a feud. Not something I'm interested in fighting over,
anyway.

I know you're just trying to help -- just like I was trying to do when I
made the realization that the HOWTO was dead a year and a half ago. The
author's email wasn't even working at that time. At least my email has
always worked, and I've been doing what I can to answer the questions I get.

I'll take the hit that I've failed to progress beyond "step one" of getting
the original document converted to sgml. Life happens.

If you are sincerely interested in taking it and moving forward with it,
then go ahead. I do have a lot on my plate.

If you were only taking it because you thought no one else was interested,
then we should probably talk some more.

-- Gary