From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-alma10-1.taild15c8.ts.net [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0E653AE6FC; Thu, 20 Aug 2026 06:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1787205801; cv=none; b=KjV2RWgSaCqOa+0SL0WCNI/QTTzbtiW9v5lhXt8GyqQmXB6NVaBVXELbtdfFAXNnNJWAC6tz1hmW58Y1jJdphtQTTcqQg/NoGDMsmHvUqih77ABoscn+h24iD5RBfVGcMk/0M8ET8aygNO5XtKtBqj9XfjkX3Tv/WSy2i16yyM8= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1787205801; c=relaxed/simple; bh=jnFPaMuN6Jw6pqqQT/InQ6wYjEGcdsE/XK1iLLP36bA=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=uF9Xa3KuX3JB850O9zCxkT7X+LI/ONqICoez4t2bW41UNrXlv5tCsP33f0wsZwuNeswc93b3+oBpo3NNyI9/TjQXEtJz5+n6vQ/q4EfThR9YDXqRd6HV5E5Jz5by28rOibDnLYy0A6ndmt0xxIJZUe6MKzlJLd3OvIP/D/rR3iQ= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=Bk2yfDZB; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="Bk2yfDZB" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FAE91F000E9; Thu, 20 Aug 2026 06:03:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1787205799; bh=uXj7CZeqo1loDtSz0pXTzQ1JoeNkYByZu2BnknAMqN4=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=Bk2yfDZB6ALt7tiJO60H8je+GokIcayDpuTkE3D5rvn1AlEbdc77/FF7OZkHPCre7 zq4000MqgbBOhr3+hNKWJRyOoyVarikKf44o/jkI2msY2RDpReLXk1JyALSDg3sCae 6ZnloNUZO8g/SebhY2GzcEDdEtrNoaEgF8s2C/vrfzdl5K3Q/Jsw777YqhJTkk1Xlo 8FteA5mrBIYyQzCmyEVqzDr/TcRQ47XDGiiUEtMwwXwjPCwLO0ROYaK5gP9IKH+hGL r0L0MzbK8xnRxSZbmULLCUK68afRvzghIr52WbmEK1UXowkc9ys0UZ/BDp9PfXoqXZ E7WpsEJ5+JGXA== Message-ID: <56db332f-a18e-4a9e-be9d-67d2e25c3666@kernel.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2026 08:03:03 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-serial@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 4/5] arm64: dts: google: Add initial dts for frankel/blazer/mustang To: Doug Anderson Cc: Rob Herring , Conor Dooley , Peter Griffin , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Conor Dooley , =?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Draszik?= , Tudor Ambarus , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Jiri Slaby , Catalin Marinas , Will Deacon , Arnd Bergmann , Alexandre Belloni , Linus Walleij , Drew Fustini , Kees Cook , Tony Luck , "Guilherme G. Piccoli" , devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-samsung-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-serial@vger.kernel.org, soc@lists.linux.dev, Juan Yescas , RD Babiera , Brian Norris , William McVicker , kernel-team@android.com References: <20260722-contrib-pg-pixel10-initial-dts-v2-0-3abae9717feb@linaro.org> <20260722-contrib-pg-pixel10-initial-dts-v2-4-3abae9717feb@linaro.org> <20260724-dancing-skunk-of-novelty-72c1b8@quoll> From: Krzysztof Kozlowski Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=krzk@kernel.org; keydata= xsFNBFVDQq4BEAC6KeLOfFsAvFMBsrCrJ2bCalhPv5+KQF2PS2+iwZI8BpRZoV+Bd5kWvN79 cFgcqTTuNHjAvxtUG8pQgGTHAObYs6xeYJtjUH0ZX6ndJ33FJYf5V3yXqqjcZ30FgHzJCFUu JMp7PSyMPzpUXfU12yfcRYVEMQrmplNZssmYhiTeVicuOOypWugZKVLGNm0IweVCaZ/DJDIH gNbpvVwjcKYrx85m9cBVEBUGaQP6AT7qlVCkrf50v8bofSIyVa2xmubbAwwFA1oxoOusjPIE J3iadrwpFvsZjF5uHAKS+7wHLoW9hVzOnLbX6ajk5Hf8Pb1m+VH/E8bPBNNYKkfTtypTDUCj NYcd27tjnXfG+SDs/EXNUAIRefCyvaRG7oRYF3Ec+2RgQDRnmmjCjoQNbFrJvJkFHlPeHaeS BosGY+XWKydnmsfY7SSnjAzLUGAFhLd/XDVpb1Een2XucPpKvt9ORF+48gy12FA5GduRLhQU vK4tU7ojoem/G23PcowM1CwPurC8sAVsQb9KmwTGh7rVz3ks3w/zfGBy3+WmLg++C2Wct6nM Pd8/6CBVjEWqD06/RjI2AnjIq5fSEH/BIfXXfC68nMp9BZoy3So4ZsbOlBmtAPvMYX6U8VwD TNeBxJu5Ex0Izf1NV9CzC3nNaFUYOY8KfN01X5SExAoVTr09ewARAQABzSVLcnp5c3p0b2Yg S296bG93c2tpIDxrcnprQGtlcm5lbC5vcmc+wsGPBBMBCgA5AhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsE FgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBJvQfg4MUfjVlne3VBuTQ307QWKbBQJp2mE8AAoJEBuTQ307QWKbeaIP /ihHTkTW4KsN/DQ945JJbyu5tI0J80Wue7QyyLPglyKfhgb5cLLNPpOC8cCIJsc7+W3i2P38 s2c1cOH6CYGE7E9ur3Vfme8NW2S2I/Z8VC7bZnzyS23wT17LrsdS/qCpx4o8U+pt/xdXDKph EGRYrIEmMpUWvyYzyYKGIe25FtaayIIKpq8eZYyFcp2f/sG5IkOW5uZzHPMPdcm87jU7fyuQ rAU2vx9r+ulUfQ/q9Z2roC/ode3l7t2pN7BCBCsUDp6JCrUyZrtT1e7EbA0ZRP3aOBNk2P2E DQOgJGjGdO5Yx2Y9LFtltu6JbsBJHi1syGRX3AtQYOMc4Y1WGoeZJmMlvKj2ZqqXNkcWi2DS IQEWB0uW6CqFsBBIMGDa+6OzdaVO/uAVXWDWml02Men3CILdI1MbVjoh8ECqYUY7OQ+JJvNN vnliuq5WM3Ghd3jg/LZZrxXjdIginRHFQCjIJYLKpLZWm1/iDFedcfzqRNYmTtqscdCNHW41 oT3Z7BmO9xwdjuwBS6nmS6JJwkbf5Ot2QR4pB/DRU7ZwjT1qHe+9r9gF32wXVQatHNGK/VVu sfwOnkdxCWkp/qb2gdQRmZh+SedStWshigH6sNfuHBloF/q+hjMRc8b2m326OZdrbSHwY1Sz vti8Hn7n8NjdHO9LKB7BIdjkA9DA5WsqOuVCzsFNBFVDXDQBEADNkrQYSREUL4D3Gws46JEo Z9HEQOKtkrwjrzlw/tCmqVzERRPvz2Xg8n7+HRCrgqnodIYoUh5WsU84N03KlLueMNsWLJBv BaubYN4JuJIdRr4dS4oyF1/fQAQPHh8Thpiz0SAZFx6iWKB7Qrz3OrGCjTPcW6eiOMheesVS 5hxietSmlin+SilmIAPZHx7n242u6kdHOh+/SyLImKn/dh9RzatVpUKbv34eP1wAGldWsRxb f3WP9pFNObSzI/Bo3kA89Xx2rO2roC+Gq4LeHvo7ptzcLcrqaHUAcZ3CgFG88CnA6z6lBZn0 WyewEcPOPdcUB2Q7D/NiUY+HDiV99rAYPJztjeTrBSTnHeSBPb+qn5ZZGQwIdUW9YegxWKvX XHTwB5eMzo/RB6vffwqcnHDoe0q7VgzRRZJwpi6aMIXLfeWZ5Wrwaw2zldFuO4Dt91pFzBSO IpeMtfgb/Pfe/a1WJ/GgaIRIBE+NUqckM+3zJHGmVPqJP/h2Iwv6nw8U+7Yyl6gUBLHFTg2h YnLFJI4Xjg+AX1hHFVKmvl3VBHIsBv0oDcsQWXqY+NaFahT0lRPjYtrTa1v3tem/JoFzZ4B0 p27K+qQCF2R96hVvuEyjzBmdq2esyE6zIqftdo4MOJho8uctOiWbwNNq2U9pPWmu4vXVFBYI GmpyNPYzRm0QPwARAQABwsF2BBgBCgAgAhsMFiEEm9B+DgxR+NWWd7dUG5NDfTtBYpsFAmna YUkACgkQG5NDfTtBYptX+BAApg32CkxwNucNEi8WfWA8oKkW0y8YDuY6ORMo9FWNGiT/OTy0 vyJrLocrpn86zwfjVp+eCrssPYh8eqJfnWqmYv6ACQtHPYzPZQ3mSo8H97Z01oUxITzCxpXm ZkLgPIqtDPcC2E3dPM/fVxcyowM8XsaMA9wcsaUYrta8toOq2b9tKcjleKMfMrm0gQ9u7wUc QbLkwj6TCLOwucb07GXzLTNF9PZmaDUpKAZjMjmrW+le+SFvQbhamx0rxLWPR0NWntXpbCn+ +ACch03p/JyTBVktxFsFyCt7pTPE1kEaeuXBTe/a2D9iQvRxRW19LvuO2e59/u1wYUiH/orz wbIC2S4dBsPAPihL3ztOU1yE86GPyQtSE0kU+/7snnLt4QGi6PChf3t5gnNjAzjUUovO8rgI c+5yN5heq5loYHgK6OQ9OlHzsPHO9e9MOQcKlFycs1pyijFGzDwdNUm/SchK8iWT2QApTx4A K9bCVaboTA2T77QYkRcRJYSsO1alGX0ome/hMLD1daXlkrNUp1HWa3K4iytLRXjCSIorWiGs n+q3krnpXu3TFkA8qtOFZMdnIiFuiq1yLT8hptsV5xh1TA2nsVvSYiaCr3q4s4BKjS/KrLDb qoxzw8ISjdUp4pA85vb6YLCmb39NgidD+7PmAr65lBNveIFynTgsja1rRQ4= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 19/08/2026 19:04, Doug Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2026 at 2:02 AM Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: >> >>> Is there some other documentation saying "aliases == evil" that I >>> missed? Maybe some email thread we're all supposed to have read? >> >> A lot of rules are implied by other rules and this one, how Linus stated >> in other thread, might be implied by no-Linuxisms as you want ordering >> or stable naming of Linux /dev entries. >> >> I understand your reason is actually different than above, but your code >> does not suggest that. >> >> Anyway, if you wanted to have aliases as ABI, it would have to be >> documented. You cannot send post-factum DTS and say "we already use it". >> Every ABI must be documented before usage. > > I'm happy to document. Can you please point to how / where I would Description of: Documentation/devicetree/bindings/ufs/ufs-common.yaml And obviously, as with every binding/ABI, you also need open-source, upstream user of this. > document this? As far as I can tell, no aliases are documented today, git grep disagrees with you, e.g. second paragraph of serial.yaml. > so this would be the first. If you could give me a hint of where you'd > expect it, that would probably be better than me guessing. > > >> And this is what my comment was about: "they MUST talk >> with upstream open source maintainers before they ship such ABI." >> >> And no, sending such DTS in your v1 is not documenting ABI. Does not count. > > Sure, sending a DTS isn't documenting, but it _is_ talking. Discussion > in responses to patches is where we figure things out. For that to > work, reviewers need to point out problems and then we need to have a > continued discussion until we can figure out a solution. When that > discussion just stops, it's incredibly hard to make progress. > > >>> thus implicitly provides an "instance ID"? Would it be OK if I >>> changed my alias name to "ufs-primary" or "ufs-internal" or "ufs-boot" >>> or just "ufs"? We're not using the alias to get an instance ID, but >>> when I added the alias I followed the pattern of all the other aliases >>> and put an number at the end. >>> >>> I'm happy to attempt to fix our bootloader using whatever scheme >>> upstream suggests. I'm trying to "talk to upstream" as requested, but >>> for it to work I need upstream to talk back. :-) >> >> Make your case - what is the purpose of it? Boot device? Then you have >> "chosen" node for stuff between firmware and OS. There is even a >> property called "bootsource". If this is not boot device, but some >> calibration data for ONE given instance of IP, regardless whether you >> boot from it or not, then I find such case as border-base and not worth >> implementing, because basically one can come one month later with "I >> need 1000 aliases because my bootloader is patching up every device >> node". > > I think I've presened my problem fairly concretely [1]. If you hate There is no description of the problem at [1], except "bootloader adds the same type of calibration data". So I repeat my questions: to every UFS node? To every node? To one UFS node (but how do you guarantee that?)? I gave you two solutions, depending on actual upstream need of this. If you have the second case - so not the boot device - then you basically want to re-implement overlays which you cannot. Use overlays, which gives you nice stable and build-time verifiable label/phandle. Best regards, Krzysztof