For those interested in the Dreamcast

For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Adrian McMenamin]

Veterans of the Dreamcast development community will recall we used to
have a pretty good general mailing list, but it long ago fell into
disuse.

I know the community is much smaller now than before but it would be
good to have a general list, so I have set one up. Please consider
subscribing

http://transpero.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dreamcastdev

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Paul Mundt]

On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 07:48:48PM +0000, Adrian McMenamin wrote:
> Veterans of the Dreamcast development community will recall we used to
> have a pretty good general mailing list, but it long ago fell into
> disuse.
> 
> I know the community is much smaller now than before but it would be
> good to have a general list, so I have set one up. Please consider
> subscribing
> 
> http://transpero.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dreamcastdev
> 
Please explain how more fragmentation in this area is going to help
anything. It seems like you are aiming for one mailing list per dreamcast
developer.

Any OS specific stuff needs to go through the port-specific list, and
architecture specific issues can be cross-posted across those as well.
The only thing a dreamcast-specific list would be useful for would be
discussions of native development on bare metal that people don't see a
good fit for anywhere else. However, even that stuff is likely marginal
enough at this point that there is no reason to discourage such threads
from popping up on the OS-specific lists.

When you are already suffering from lack of activity due to your platform
being in its death throes, more mailing list fragmentation is definitely
not the answer.

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Adrian McMenamin]

On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 16:54 +0900, Paul Mundt wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 07:48:48PM +0000, Adrian McMenamin wrote:
> > Veterans of the Dreamcast development community will recall we used to
> > have a pretty good general mailing list, but it long ago fell into
> > disuse.
> > 
> > I know the community is much smaller now than before but it would be
> > good to have a general list, so I have set one up. Please consider
> > subscribing
> > 
> > http://transpero.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dreamcastdev
> > 
> Please explain how more fragmentation in this area is going to help
> anything. It seems like you are aiming for one mailing list per dreamcast
> developer.
> 
> Any OS specific stuff needs to go through the port-specific list, and
> architecture specific issues can be cross-posted across those as well.
> The only thing a dreamcast-specific list would be useful for would be
> discussions of native development on bare metal that people don't see a
> good fit for anywhere else. However, even that stuff is likely marginal
> enough at this point that there is no reason to discourage such threads
> from popping up on the OS-specific lists.
> 
> When you are already suffering from lack of activity due to your platform
> being in its death throes, more mailing list fragmentation is definitely
> not the answer.

If you don't want to subscribe that is up to you.

In the meantime this is not further fragmentation but the opposite - an
attempt to (once again) have a single point where cross-OS issues could
be discussed.

As it is the very creation of the list has revealed (to me) that
significant extra pieces of hardware have been reversed by developers
working in other areas.

That's a very positive result as far as I am concerned and will, I hope,
result in a driver for Linux in due course. Perhaps BSD developers will
be similarly interested.

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Paul Mundt]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 08:16:54AM +0000, Adrian McMenamin wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 16:54 +0900, Paul Mundt wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 07:48:48PM +0000, Adrian McMenamin wrote:
> > > Veterans of the Dreamcast development community will recall we used to
> > > have a pretty good general mailing list, but it long ago fell into
> > > disuse.
> > > 
> > > I know the community is much smaller now than before but it would be
> > > good to have a general list, so I have set one up. Please consider
> > > subscribing
> > > 
> > > http://transpero.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dreamcastdev
> > > 
> > Please explain how more fragmentation in this area is going to help
> > anything. It seems like you are aiming for one mailing list per dreamcast
> > developer.
> > 
> > Any OS specific stuff needs to go through the port-specific list, and
> > architecture specific issues can be cross-posted across those as well.
> > The only thing a dreamcast-specific list would be useful for would be
> > discussions of native development on bare metal that people don't see a
> > good fit for anywhere else. However, even that stuff is likely marginal
> > enough at this point that there is no reason to discourage such threads
> > from popping up on the OS-specific lists.
> > 
> > When you are already suffering from lack of activity due to your platform
> > being in its death throes, more mailing list fragmentation is definitely
> > not the answer.
> 
> If you don't want to subscribe that is up to you.
> 
> In the meantime this is not further fragmentation but the opposite - an
> attempt to (once again) have a single point where cross-OS issues could
> be discussed.
> 
You seem to have entirely missed the point about cross-posting being OK
for these situations today. The linux-sh list is certainly open to
cross-posting, regardless of whether people are subscribed or not, and
general architectural issues are certainly best discussed there.

The very definition of fragmentation in this context is when a small
marginal interest group runs off to start a separate forum for discussion
with the express purpose of only focusing on a fixed issue. In practice
this tends never to work in the long haul, so you either have people
subscribed to both places, or you miss out on the knowledge base
available on the higher volume list (including the people who designed
the hardware in the first place).

Encouraging discussion within your own interest group is great, but there
is no reason why this can not be done on the existing lists today without
trying to drive another wedge in to the development community. There are
simply not enough developers for a new list to be necessary.

The time to split off a list is when there is too much chatter about a
particular area of interest on a more general purpose list that it
actively becomes a distraction, and there are enough people and momentum
to carry it forward. Only in these situations can fragmenting be useful,
and these lists tend to fall in to disarray and die off completely once
that particular issue has been dealt with, or the momentum falls off
naturally. Premature fragmentation just means that you have small pockets
of people with similar interests split off in to totally separate groups
with very little communication between them.

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Monday 12 January 2009 03:40:08 Paul Mundt wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 08:16:54AM +0000, Adrian McMenamin wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 16:54 +0900, Paul Mundt wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 07:48:48PM +0000, Adrian McMenamin wrote:
> > > > Veterans of the Dreamcast development community will recall we used
> > > > to have a pretty good general mailing list, but it long ago fell into
> > > > disuse.
> > > >
> > > > I know the community is much smaller now than before but it would be
> > > > good to have a general list, so I have set one up. Please consider
> > > > subscribing
> > > >
> > > > http://transpero.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dreamcastdev
> > >
> > > Please explain how more fragmentation in this area is going to help
> > > anything. It seems like you are aiming for one mailing list per
> > > dreamcast developer.
> > >
> > > Any OS specific stuff needs to go through the port-specific list, and
> > > architecture specific issues can be cross-posted across those as well.
> > > The only thing a dreamcast-specific list would be useful for would be
> > > discussions of native development on bare metal that people don't see a
> > > good fit for anywhere else. However, even that stuff is likely marginal
> > > enough at this point that there is no reason to discourage such threads
> > > from popping up on the OS-specific lists.
> > >
> > > When you are already suffering from lack of activity due to your
> > > platform being in its death throes, more mailing list fragmentation is
> > > definitely not the answer.
> >
> > If you don't want to subscribe that is up to you.
> >
> > In the meantime this is not further fragmentation but the opposite - an
> > attempt to (once again) have a single point where cross-OS issues could
> > be discussed.
>
> You seem to have entirely missed the point about cross-posting being OK
> for these situations today. The linux-sh list is certainly open to
> cross-posting, regardless of whether people are subscribed or not, and
> general architectural issues are certainly best discussed there.

if people cant be bothered to find all the relevant lists, how about you 
(Adrian) create an alias that simply expands to all the relevant lists ?

a quick glance at netbsd archives indicates that the sh3/dreamcast lists see 
very little traffic anyways ...
-mike

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Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Adrian McMenamin]

On Mon, January 12, 2009 12:53 pm, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> if people cant be bothered to find all the relevant lists, how about you
> (Adrian) create an alias that simply expands to all the relevant lists ?
>
> a quick glance at netbsd archives indicates that the sh3/dreamcast lists
> see
> very little traffic anyways ...
> -mike
>

There are over 100 people subscribed to the kallistios development list,
bringing them (or at least those who are still engaged) together with nix
orientated developers on a low traffic list to discuss occassional issues
of mutual interest is what this (the dreamcastdev list) is for.

To repeat: this is what used to exist in any case.

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Peter Bortas]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Adrian McMenamin
<adrian@newgolddream.dyndns.info> wrote:
> On Mon, January 12, 2009 12:53 pm, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> if people cant be bothered to find all the relevant lists, how about you
>> (Adrian) create an alias that simply expands to all the relevant lists ?
>>
>> a quick glance at netbsd archives indicates that the sh3/dreamcast lists
>> see
>> very little traffic anyways ...
>> -mike
>>
>
> There are over 100 people subscribed to the kallistios development list,
> bringing them (or at least those who are still engaged) together with nix
> orientated developers on a low traffic list to discuss occassional issues
> of mutual interest is what this (the dreamcastdev list) is for.
>
> To repeat: this is what used to exist in any case.

Is dcdev@yahoogroups.com broken?

-- 
Peter Bortas

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Adrian McMenamin]

On Tue, January 13, 2009 7:38 am, Peter Bortas wrote:


> Is dcdev@yahoogroups.com broken?
>


The last email was in September 2006.

But this is because the moderator neglected to moderate.

Re: For those interested in the Dreamcast

[Peter Bortas]

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Adrian McMenamin
<adrian@newgolddream.dyndns.info> wrote:
> On Tue, January 13, 2009 7:38 am, Peter Bortas wrote:
>
>> Is dcdev@yahoogroups.com broken?
>
> The last email was in September 2006.
>
> But this is because the moderator neglected to moderate.

That would be a valid reason to start a new list. And a cross-projects
DC list is nice.

-- 
Peter Bortas