From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Lee Revell Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 20:28:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Message-Id: <1136492896.847.21.camel@mindpipe> List-Id: References: <20050726150837.GT3160@stusta.de> <200601031522.06898.s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk> <20060103160502.GB5262@irc.pl> <200601031629.21765.s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk> <20060103170316.GA12249@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <20060103203732.GF5262@irc.pl> <9a8748490601031256x916bddav794fecdcf263fb55@mail.gmail.com> <20060103215654.GH3831@stusta.de> <9a8748490601031411p17d4417fyffbfee00ca85ac82@mail.gmail.com> <0D76E9E1-7FB0-41FD-8FAC-E4B3C6E9C902@dalecki.de> <1136486021.31583.26.camel@mindpipe> <1136491503.847.0.camel@mindpipe> <7B34B941-46CC-478F-A870-43FE0D3143AB@dalecki.de> In-Reply-To: <7B34B941-46CC-478F-A870-43FE0D3143AB@dalecki.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Marcin Dalecki Cc: Jan Engelhardt , Takashi Iwai , Jesper Juhl , Adrian Bunk , Tomasz Torcz , Olivier Galibert , Alistair John Strachan , Andi Kleen , perex@suse.cz, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, James@superbug.demon.co.uk, sailer@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux-sound@vger.kernel.org, zab@zabbo.net, kyle@parisc-linux.org, parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org, jgarzik@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe , zwane@commfireservices.com, zaitcev@yahoo.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 21:18 +0100, Marcin Dalecki wrote: > On 2006-01-05, at 21:05, Lee Revell wrote: > > > On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 21:03 +0100, Marcin Dalecki wrote: > >> On 2006-01-05, at 19:33, Lee Revell wrote: > >> > >>> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 13:44 +0100, Marcin Dalecki wrote: > >>>> Second - you still didn't explain why this allows you to conclude > >>>> that sound mixing should in no way be done inside the kernel. > >>> > >>> It works perfectly right now in userspace. > >> > >> Yeah - for you maybe... > >> > > > > Please rephrase your comment in the form of a useful bug report. > > Yes I will. But only after you stop spreading BS about how fine and > generally dandy the situation about sound support in Linux is thanks > to ALSA. I'm not spreading BS, I'm trying to identify the real problems and get them fixed. Unfortunately people like to bitch and moan a lot more than they like to report bugs. > One reports bugs only if one expects that the situation will improve. Um, look at the alsa-devel archives or the ALSA CVS commit mailing list. We close dozens of bugs each week. I personally closed more than 50 last week (most had been fixed months ago). 90% of ALSA development happens through the bug tracker. > Glaring problems on average commodity hardware one expect the > developers to take > care of without any notice. > HAHA, "average commodity hardware", that's a good one. I think you VASTLY underestimate the difficulty of maintaining good ALSA drivers. There are hundreds of times more sound chipset/codec combinations than there are ALSA developers. This is not like network or disk controller drivers where having the datasheet is the norm - in ALSA reverse engineered drivers are the norm and there can be dozens of variations on a single chipset all of which the driver must handle. It would be one thing if the vendors helped but they don't - sound is considered desktop stuff and they don't consider the Linux desktop market worth their time. > However since the beginning the situation with ALSA has always been a > lot of > advertisement how well it will work but the results where always less > then stellar > if one looked at them from the functional side. > Check out the linux-audio-dev and linux-audio-user archives. ALSA has been working perfectly for all of those users for years. Lee