Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Alexey Zaytsev]

Hello.

Is sparse going to participate in this year's soc?
I e-mailed Josh a day or two ago, but got no answer,
and the org application deadline is May 12, 12:00 PDT.

I know, last year was not all that successful, but maybe
there will be more applications this year. I've got some
ideas about abstract interpretation for one. I can't promise
that I'll choose sparse, there should be lots of interesting
projects this year, but there are other people as well.

Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Josh Triplett]

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Alexey Zaytsev wrote:
> Is sparse going to participate in this year's soc?
> I e-mailed Josh a day or two ago, but got no answer,
> and the org application deadline is May 12, 12:00 PDT.
> 
> I know, last year was not all that successful, but maybe
> there will be more applications this year. I've got some
> ideas about abstract interpretation for one. I can't promise
> that I'll choose sparse, there should be lots of interesting
> projects this year, but there are other people as well.

At least one other person has asked about Sparse and SoC, which
suggests that some interest exists.  I'll work on getting the
org forms filled out today.

If anyone else on the Sparse list has an interest in mentoring, please
let me know as soon as possible.

For anyone thinking about project ideas, I'd like to make two general
recommendations:

* Have specific goals, rather than just "improve support for $FOO".

* Release early, release often.  Please get comfortable with the idea
  of releasing your work to the Sparse mailing list, regardless of the
  current state of that work.

Regarding specific project ideas, I would have a particularly strong
interest in projects related to improved context checking (including
via abstract interpretation or similar), projects to make it easier to
add new checks to Sparse or maintain the existing checks, or projects
attempting to port C test suites (such as GCC's) to Sparse.

(In that last case, many tests will not apply due to the lack of code
generation, but if you want to write a code eneration backend do feel
free. :)  Also, many tests would still not apply due to lack of
specific optimizations.)

- Josh Triplett


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Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[James Westby]

On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 11:20 -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> If anyone else on the Sparse list has an interest in mentoring, please
> let me know as soon as possible.
> 
> For anyone thinking about project ideas, I'd like to make two general
> recommendations:
> 
> * Have specific goals, rather than just "improve support for $FOO".
> 
> * Release early, release often.  Please get comfortable with the idea
>   of releasing your work to the Sparse mailing list, regardless of the
>   current state of that work.
> 
> Regarding specific project ideas, I would have a particularly strong
> interest in projects related to improved context checking (including
> via abstract interpretation or similar), projects to make it easier to
> add new checks to Sparse or maintain the existing checks, or projects
> attempting to port C test suites (such as GCC's) to Sparse.

Hi,

I have some interest in abstract interpretation and the like, and I 
think it would be cool for someone to work on it, so I would be willing
to (co-)mentor someone on this project.

I realise I am not known on this list, so you may not want to trust me
with the role, and I would understand that.

Thanks,

James

Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Christopher Li]

Hi,

I am glad to mentor some projects with sparse.

Here is some project ideas for the checker. I really want to implement some
thing like the Stanford Checker. Here is some hand waving road map:

- Inside function check. I already have some patch does that.
- serialize the compiled c type and linearized byte code so you can
load it as module.
- cross file symbol dictionary look up and reference. aka linker.
- cross file function check.

I can write it into more detailed project requirement and mile stone if there
is interest on this.

Chris


On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Josh Triplett <josh@kernel.org> wrote:
> Alexey Zaytsev wrote:
>  > Is sparse going to participate in this year's soc?
>  > I e-mailed Josh a day or two ago, but got no answer,
>  > and the org application deadline is May 12, 12:00 PDT.
>  >
>  > I know, last year was not all that successful, but maybe
>  > there will be more applications this year. I've got some
>  > ideas about abstract interpretation for one. I can't promise
>  > that I'll choose sparse, there should be lots of interesting
>  > projects this year, but there are other people as well.
>
>  At least one other person has asked about Sparse and SoC, which
>  suggests that some interest exists.  I'll work on getting the
>  org forms filled out today.
>
>  If anyone else on the Sparse list has an interest in mentoring, please
>  let me know as soon as possible.
>
>  For anyone thinking about project ideas, I'd like to make two general
>  recommendations:
>
>  * Have specific goals, rather than just "improve support for $FOO".
>
>  * Release early, release often.  Please get comfortable with the idea
>   of releasing your work to the Sparse mailing list, regardless of the
>   current state of that work.
>
>  Regarding specific project ideas, I would have a particularly strong
>  interest in projects related to improved context checking (including
>  via abstract interpretation or similar), projects to make it easier to
>  add new checks to Sparse or maintain the existing checks, or projects
>  attempting to port C test suites (such as GCC's) to Sparse.
>
>  (In that last case, many tests will not apply due to the lack of code
>  generation, but if you want to write a code eneration backend do feel
>  free. :)  Also, many tests would still not apply due to lack of
>  specific optimizations.)
>
>  - Josh Triplett
>
>

Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Derek M Jones]

Josh,

>> I know, last year was not all that successful, but maybe
>> there will be more applications this year. I've got some
>> ideas about abstract interpretation for one. I can't promise
>> that I'll choose sparse, there should be lots of interesting
>> projects this year, but there are other people as well.
> 
> At least one other person has asked about Sparse and SoC, which
> suggests that some interest exists.  I'll work on getting the
> org forms filled out today.
> 
> If anyone else on the Sparse list has an interest in mentoring, please
> let me know as soon as possible.

The ideas so far proposed are major undertakings.  The sort of
thing a summer student will only scratch the surface of.

I think it would be useful to analyze the Linux bug history,
looking for known faults and their fixes, that are currently not
detected by Sparse, but which look like they are amenable to static
detection.
If more faults are required there is always the BSD bug list.

If the existing faults were categorized it would give some idea
of the kinds of constructs that ought to be searched for.

-- 
Derek M. Jones                              tel: +44 (0) 1252 520 667
Knowledge Software Ltd                      mailto:derek@knosof.co.uk
Applications Standards Conformance Testing    http://www.knosof.co.uk

Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Alexey Zaytsev]

On 3/12/08, Derek M Jones <derek@knosof.co.uk> wrote:
> Josh,
>
>
>  >> I know, last year was not all that successful, but maybe
>  >> there will be more applications this year. I've got some
>  >> ideas about abstract interpretation for one. I can't promise
>  >> that I'll choose sparse, there should be lots of interesting
>  >> projects this year, but there are other people as well.
>  >
>  > At least one other person has asked about Sparse and SoC, which
>  > suggests that some interest exists.  I'll work on getting the
>  > org forms filled out today.
>  >
>  > If anyone else on the Sparse list has an interest in mentoring, please
>  > let me know as soon as possible.
>
>
> The ideas so far proposed are major undertakings.  The sort of
>  thing a summer student will only scratch the surface of.
>
I have nothing against adding more easier projects, but please
keep the proposed ones. ;)

>  I think it would be useful to analyze the Linux bug history,
>  looking for known faults and their fixes, that are currently not
>  detected by Sparse, but which look like they are amenable to static
>  detection.
>  If more faults are required there is always the BSD bug list.
>
>  If the existing faults were categorized it would give some idea
>  of the kinds of constructs that ought to be searched for.
>
>  --
>  Derek M. Jones                              tel: +44 (0) 1252 520 667
>  Knowledge Software Ltd                      mailto:derek@knosof.co.uk
>  Applications Standards Conformance Testing    http://www.knosof.co.uk
>
> --
>  To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-sparse" in
>  the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>  More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>

Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Josh Triplett]

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Derek M Jones wrote:
>>> I know, last year was not all that successful, but maybe
>>> there will be more applications this year. I've got some
>>> ideas about abstract interpretation for one. I can't promise
>>> that I'll choose sparse, there should be lots of interesting
>>> projects this year, but there are other people as well.
>> At least one other person has asked about Sparse and SoC, which
>> suggests that some interest exists.  I'll work on getting the
>> org forms filled out today.
>>
>> If anyone else on the Sparse list has an interest in mentoring, please
>> let me know as soon as possible.
> 
> The ideas so far proposed are major undertakings.  The sort of
> thing a summer student will only scratch the surface of.

To clarify, I wouldn't expect a student project to do everything
necessary to complete any of the areas I mentioned.  I wouldn't expect
complete handling of contexts, or a complete port of an extensive test
suite.  (And the comment about code generation falls under "sarcastic
offhand remark", not "project suggestion"; anyone wanting to do that
should scale back their expectations significantly unless they have
lots of compiler experience.)  On the other hand, a student project
could reasonably add one or two additional things to context checking,
or do a proof-of-concept port of a handful of tests with some
underlying infrastructure.

> I think it would be useful to analyze the Linux bug history,
> looking for known faults and their fixes, that are currently not
> detected by Sparse, but which look like they are amenable to static
> detection.
> If more faults are required there is always the BSD bug list.
> 
> If the existing faults were categorized it would give some idea
> of the kinds of constructs that ought to be searched for.

Agreed entirely, and that sounds like an excellent project possibility.
Any additional useful warning in Sparse represents a good contribution.

- Josh Triplett


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Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Neil Booth]

Josh Triplett wrote:-

> To clarify, I wouldn't expect a student project to do everything
> necessary to complete any of the areas I mentioned.  I wouldn't expect
> complete handling of contexts, or a complete port of an extensive test
> suite.

Of course, the real goal should be not a testsuite port to sparse,
but a testsuite full stop.  One that works with trivial tweaks for
any given compiler.  That would be of much more value than a
"port" to sparse or anything else.

Neil.

Re: Sparse and the Google Summer of Code 2008

[Josh Triplett]

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Neil Booth wrote:
> Josh Triplett wrote:-
>> To clarify, I wouldn't expect a student project to do everything
>> necessary to complete any of the areas I mentioned.  I wouldn't expect
>> complete handling of contexts, or a complete port of an extensive test
>> suite.
> 
> Of course, the real goal should be not a testsuite port to sparse,
> but a testsuite full stop.  One that works with trivial tweaks for
> any given compiler.  That would be of much more value than a
> "port" to sparse or anything else.

Agreed entirely, and I would happily accept such a project under the Sparse
banner.

- Josh Triplett


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