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c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=68c8020a cx=c_pps a=XiAAW1AwiKB2Y8Wsi+sD2Q==:117 a=XiAAW1AwiKB2Y8Wsi+sD2Q==:17 a=6eWqkTHjU83fiwn7nKZWdM+Sl24=:19 a=z/mQ4Ysz8XfWz/Q5cLBRGdckG28=:19 a=lCpzRmAYbLLaTzLvsPZ7Mbvzbb8=:19 a=wKuvFiaSGQ0qltdbU6+NXLB8nM8=:19 a=Ol13hO9ccFRV9qXi2t6ftBPywas=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=yJojWOMRYYMA:10 a=GoEa3M9JfhUA:10 a=xtoeP79OCLh7t6D0JHwA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-Proofpoint-GUID: iY-Bhk3tc6DVEwDy20W8RjJoJkjevHm8 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details-Enc: AW1haW4tMjUwOTEzMDAxMiBTYWx0ZWRfX7s6f/KwJ+4E7 yxfQH4EfriCAexRKM1lwZiG+2E+7kyZhV+jcrcuif8dL/D/dFA33Yx5JhMCYQkIe01hHW0ORlp2 BN2c4rVk509eAVHEnGxwb3Ps66kXVDzZr4MyM6YFsiqJB2LrruvwGTPcnnpzX66VqEpK4PWrQuZ IyBCv5/QNSVR0CUWTWVEIIUCaMRuRQ9/I2sBH8LCmvJpMm/FLXm3Ed2bwnUuXmd82bJ2WnMHQQO vAinvDJ1a5+ak4zsy90u2qWoH7Nig8wErYxcqEgNTeMuUaOa6XHYY7D4aden4mApNmzWoYn9nT1 bMWZKL3eJJ1HuDjAkr8jZc+dfSuB2iARwU/siE1/eezz6JG9vCLr2cosLWynFv9QoZX+7RfAWMd RRYMswA3 On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:01:26PM +0100, Kiryl Shutsemau wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:45:39PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > On 15.09.25 13:35, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:29:22PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > On 15.09.25 13:23, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:14:32PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > > On 15.09.25 13:02, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 12:52:03PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > > > > On 15.09.25 12:43, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 12:22:07PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 -> ~100% used (~0% none) > > > > > > > > > > 1 -> ~50% used (~50% none) > > > > > > > > > > 2 -> ~25% used (~75% none) > > > > > > > > > > 3 -> ~12.5% used (~87.5% none) > > > > > > > > > > 4 -> ~11.25% used (~88,75% none) > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > 10 -> ~0% used (~100% none) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and shouldn't this be inverted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 eagerness = we eat up all none PTE entries? Isn't that pretty eager? :P > > > > > > > > > 10 eagerness = we aren't eager to eat up none PTE entries at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or am I being dumb here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For swappiness it's: 0 -> no swap (conservative) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So intuitively I assumed: 0 -> no pte_none (conservative) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the native speaker, so you tell me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me this is about 'eagerness to consume empty PTE entries' so 10 is more > > > > > > > eager, 0 is not eager at all, i.e. inversion of what you suggest :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Just so we are on the same page: it is about "eagerness to collapse", right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't a 0 mean "I am not eager, I will not waste any memory, I am very > > > > > > careful and bail out on any pte_none" vs. 10 meaning "I am very eager, I > > > > > > will collapse no matter what I find in the page table, waste as much memory > > > > > > as I want"? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, this is my understanding of your scale, or is my understanding also > > > > > inverted? :) > > > > > > > > > > Right now it's: > > > > > > > > > > eagerness max_ptes_none > > > > > > > > > > 0 -> 511 > > > > > ... > > > > > 10 -> 0 > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > Just so we are on the same page, this is what I had: > > > > > > > > 0 -> ~100% used (~0% none) > > > > > > > > So "0" -> 0 pte_none or 512 used. > > > > > > > > (note the used vs. none) > > > > > > OK right so we're talking about the same thing, I guess? > > > > > > I was confused partly becuase of the scale, becuase weren't people setting > > > this parameter to low values in practice? > > > > > > And now we make it so we have equivalent of: > > > > > > 0 -> 0 > > > 1 -> 256 > > > 2 -> 384 > > > > Ah, there is the problem, that's not what I had in mind. > > > > 0 -> ~100% used (~0% none) > > ... > > 8 -> ~87,5% used (~12.5% none) > > 9 -> ~75% used (~25% none) > > 9 -> ~50% used (~50% none) > > 10 -> ~0% used (~100% none) > > > > Hopefully I didn't mess it up again. > > I think this kind of table is fine for initial implementation of the > knob, but we don't want to document it to userspace like this. > I think we want to be strategically ambiguous on what the knob does > exactly, so kernel could evolve the meaning of the knob over time. > > We don't want to repeat the problem we have with max_ptes_none which too > prescriptive and got additional meaning with introduction of shrinker. > > As kernel evolves, we want ability to adjust the meaning and keep the > knob useful. I mean, having said this exact thing several times in the thread obviously I agree... FWIW... To repeat, I think it should be an abstraction that we entirely control and whose meaning we can vary over time.