From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailgw2.hygon.cn (unknown [101.204.27.37]) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B593B25A357; Thu, 16 Apr 2026 11:48:33 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=101.204.27.37 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776340131; cv=none; b=n7vztheC25PJ42u+XM3Vyu3vWQuPeliSPE+teGWXHhC46/4VfWORoeOJ6iP0yXFj5hmiCuqTQ0wck8Yu4cUf03SST5ZXjRBFECK8T6YkKd5LdtBc5Cb97TtIp0M+Mkoct4nD3SC5JOBRlA4lzmdU1A9ai2P/ptEPwTHfW9fTDi8= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776340131; c=relaxed/simple; bh=zyZe1jx0hO5jVoW7hrnjF3AvZ7XWdFK+r/bsC+RDY5w=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=hvvqxOxm5zElrMjEgTeVVxYQMnp6Vj8j9jaxj24xlQEq6YVmPjuVNdXhASCrNwvB4FMuLfRZLJG0JfpHDck9hbIJK8zgUa+YkLDWmOT3S7Lrx2G7x3xYo/THOIxod1HKqBEoJb+YsxocKSbIn4kLP3CM9n3Zs+5EWea2wJafU7U= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=hygon.cn; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=hygon.cn; arc=none smtp.client-ip=101.204.27.37 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=hygon.cn Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=hygon.cn Received: from maildlp2.hygon.cn (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw2.hygon.cn (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fxGVj1kD1z1YQpmX; Thu, 16 Apr 2026 19:48:29 +0800 (CST) Received: from maildlp2.hygon.cn (unknown [172.23.18.61]) by mailgw2.hygon.cn (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fxGVh5pwfz1YQpmX; Thu, 16 Apr 2026 19:48:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from cncheex04.Hygon.cn (unknown [172.23.18.114]) by maildlp2.hygon.cn (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC695300D1F6; Thu, 16 Apr 2026 19:46:31 +0800 (CST) Received: from SH-HV00110.Hygon.cn (172.19.26.208) by cncheex04.Hygon.cn (172.23.18.114) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1544.36; Thu, 16 Apr 2026 19:48:27 +0800 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2026 19:48:24 +0800 From: Huang Shijie To: Mateusz Guzik CC: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] mm: split the file's i_mmap tree for NUMA Message-ID: References: <20260413062042.804-1-huangsj@hygon.cn> <76pfiwabdgsej6q2yxfh3efuqvsyg7mt7rvl5itzzjyhdrto5r@53viaxsackzv> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: cncheex06.Hygon.cn (172.23.18.116) To cncheex04.Hygon.cn (172.23.18.114) On Thu, Apr 16, 2026 at 12:29:50PM +0200, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 11:11 AM Huang Shijie wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 05:33:21PM +0200, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 02:20:39PM +0800, Huang Shijie wrote: > > > > In NUMA, there are maybe many NUMA nodes and many CPUs. > > > > For example, a Hygon's server has 12 NUMA nodes, and 384 CPUs. > > > > In the UnixBench tests, there is a test "execl" which tests > > > > the execve system call. > > > > > > > > When we test our server with "./Run -c 384 execl", > > > > the test result is not good enough. The i_mmap locks contended heavily on > > > > "libc.so" and "ld.so". For example, the i_mmap tree for "libc.so" can have > > > > over 6000 VMAs, all the VMAs can be in different NUMA mode. > > > > The insert/remove operations do not run quickly enough. > > > > > > > > patch 1 & patch 2 are try to hide the direct access of i_mmap. > > > > patch 3 splits the i_mmap into sibling trees, and we can get better > > > > performance with this patch set: > > > > we can get 77% performance improvement(10 times average) > > > > > > > > > > To my reading you kept the lock as-is and only distributed the protected > > > state. > > > > > > While I don't doubt the improvement, I'm confident should you take a > > > look at the profile you are going to find this still does not scale with > > > rwsem being one of the problems (there are other global locks, some of > > > which have experimental patches for). > > IMHO, when the number of VMAs in the i_mmap is very large, only optimise the rwsem > > lock does not help too much for our NUMA case. > > > > In our NUMA server, the remote access could be the major issue. > > > > I'm confused how this is not supposed to help. You moved your data to > be stored per-domain. With my proposal the lock itself will also get > that treatment. > > Modulo the issue of what to do with code wanting to iterate the entire > thing, this is blatantly faster. > I tested an old lock patch yesterday. It really helps a lot. The lock patch is from this link: https://lkml.org/lkml/2024/9/14/280 The test results: v7.0-rc5 + (lock patch) : improve about %60% v7.0-rc5 + (lock patch) + (this patch set) : improve about 130% > > > > > > > > Apart from that this does nothing to help high core systems which are > > > all one node, which imo puts another question mark on this specific > > > proposal. > > Yes, this patch set only focus on the NUMA case. > > The one-node case should use the original i_mmap. > > > > Maybe I can add a new config, CONFIG_SPILT_I_MMAP. The config is disabled > > by default, and enabled when the NUMA node is not one. > > > > > > > > Of course one may question whether a RB tree is the right choice here, > > > it may be the lock-protected cost can go way down with merely a better > > > data structure. > > > > > > Regardless of that, for actual scalability, there will be no way around > > > decentralazing locking around this and partitioning per some core count > > > (not just by numa awareness). > > > > > > Decentralizing locking is definitely possible, but I have not looked > > > into specifics of how problematic it is. Best case scenario it will > > > merely with separate locks. Worst case scenario something needs a fully > > > stabilized state for traversal, in that case another rw lock can be > > Yes. > > > > The traversal may need to hold many locks. > > > > The very paragraph you partially quoted answers what to do in that > case: wrap everything with a new rwsem taken for reading when > adding/removing entries and taken for writing when iterating the > entire thing. Then the iteration sticks to one lock. > > The new rw lock puts an upper ceiling on scalability of the thing, but > it is way higher than the current state. Could you tell me the patch about it? Is this lock patch merged ? or not? I can test it. > > Given the extra overhead associated with it one could consider > sticking to one centralized state by default and switching to > distributed state if there is enough contention. > > > > slapped around this, creating locking order read lock -> per-subset > > > write lock -- this will suffer scalability due to the read locking, but > > > it will still scale drastically better as apart from that there will be > > > no serialization. In this setting the problematic consumer will write > > > lock the new thing to stabilize the state. > > > > > > So my non-maintainer opinion is that the patchset is not worth it as it > > > fails to address anything for significantly more common and already > > > affected setups. > > This patch set is to reduce the remote access latency for insert/remove VMA > > in NUMA. > > > > And I am saying the mmap semaphore is a significant problem already on > high-core no-numa setups. Addressing scalability in that case would > sort out the problem in your setup and to a significantly higher > extent. I am afraid even the lock patch resolves the scalability high-core no-numa setups, we still need to split the i_mmap for NUMA. > > > > > > > Have you looked into splitting the lock? > > > > > I ever tried. > > > > But there are two disadvantages: > > 1.) The traversal may need to hold many locks which makes the > > code very horrible. > > > > I already above this is avoidable. > > > 2.) Even we split the locks. Each lock protects a tree, when the tree becomes > > big enough, the VMA insert/remove will also become slow in NUMA. > > The reason is that the tree has VMAs in different NUMA nodes. > > > > This is orthogonal to my proposal. In fact, if one is to pretend this > is never a factor with your patch, I would like to point out it will > remain not a factor if the per-numa struct gets its own lock. Yes. It is orthogonal to your proposal. Thanks Huang Shijie