From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sender4-pp-f112.zoho.com (sender4-pp-f112.zoho.com [136.143.188.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D701221DA5; Sat, 6 Sep 2025 15:46:58 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=pass smtp.client-ip=136.143.188.112 ARC-Seal:i=2; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757173620; cv=pass; b=LN5hvWasFah4dhfJ677cpAnQQBSFZ6OFNvwjRex8lybarhVGdsmoe12UmBlzURPlMvjpeJo9fWL+U75W5XNlAmjwBR10xVBS5z2cvyWrufdrvwc4vNLRcn7iMUFXVYp29lMqmLftylTRJVNvPb17SXk88vMUMhPm7/K2pBHoHus= ARC-Message-Signature:i=2; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757173620; c=relaxed/simple; bh=VA7kkpTRw1dX65/GV/SaJakAPJCKyDGAQtNokg2YDCI=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Message-Id:References:To; b=bk4UE+UDZyZm0E5D5EsggA/3tdu8XhT4z/tpIUzeM4MWFce9kJAcb4CjROlUFI/vey+dOzTylHX2ox1SZ2IIDcJ5wyaa95lucGHkka5ilBX4A9vMANhn6pFt0ICblCyhY3C0g/KnmPgjc8F03Jw2mAtE3yjfbbex6/T/K3XXU/k= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=2; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=collabora.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=collabora.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=collabora.com header.i=daniel.almeida@collabora.com header.b=C1QJQ72b; arc=pass smtp.client-ip=136.143.188.112 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=collabora.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=collabora.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=collabora.com header.i=daniel.almeida@collabora.com header.b="C1QJQ72b" ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1757173600; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=L8svGQZhM8ULK+IbmqYBzLQJhWGG7xrcDGxSq9mwb/qYgr6/DtvtulwOrsia9DxkIBV4MqhkMbHc7POK5xcA4c6aM9Z3QcHRO8ZhSEI7TuRHWlcgekH5OPvMw3lFG1QrW4tl3QkwDf8cfcuuPv6cM5v+qlmm2E6kBwAraRE8ZGM= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1757173600; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=VA7kkpTRw1dX65/GV/SaJakAPJCKyDGAQtNokg2YDCI=; b=be6UgmwDq6moPPE1daGzn7rXVVc5JWEQDepqmKZDTmUYDLTgH5urJ9wlxtdTZ1iUdgzAmDo0DZd6xejcTLNFBE2F/gmCrmxS5cn/2MJePEvQtojI83vhfPfDLYQS/G17tOwuA0waK87lD5pzbcZ2kv9rueT/Z17FlkxmqDPCx1E= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=collabora.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=daniel.almeida@collabora.com; dmarc=pass header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1757173600; s=zohomail; d=collabora.com; i=daniel.almeida@collabora.com; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Subject:From:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Date:Cc:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Message-Id:References:To:To:Reply-To; bh=VA7kkpTRw1dX65/GV/SaJakAPJCKyDGAQtNokg2YDCI=; b=C1QJQ72bIgmw/olAKUwaIo7QtMzbkXGLNG3iPmw+oynErQZyzV4vtkg66KNOon2b KEwnLGHrj7bVxbqr4RpQWtgU37wu0wxjSLQ1BaoCWcT/Qa+hmQDuOxPftUjvMLKf0M0 /j4xGyHQ4F+R6h5hB4RIK6ZgG0KXqR/Gi/7Ct1QY= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1757173596944669.3937713519095; Sat, 6 Sep 2025 08:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-usb@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] samples: rust: add a USB driver sample From: Daniel Almeida In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2025 12:46:20 -0300 Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Boqun Feng , Gary Guo , =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Roy_Baron?= , Benno Lossin , Andreas Hindborg , Alice Ryhl , Trevor Gross , Michal Wilczynski , Igor Korotin , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <85B643A9-1657-43ED-BE98-BE7E502D08DA@collabora.com> References: <20250825-b4-usb-v1-0-7aa024de7ae8@collabora.com> <20250825-b4-usb-v1-2-7aa024de7ae8@collabora.com> <2025090618-smudgy-cringing-a7a4@gregkh> <2025090601-iron-glitter-c77d@gregkh> <831C4AE2-6964-4699-9E74-E4B721B87B17@collabora.com> <9657C897-087E-4544-849B-964E99D95A50@collabora.com> To: Danilo Krummrich X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-ZohoMailClient: External > On 6 Sep 2025, at 12:22, Danilo Krummrich wrote: >=20 > On Sat Sep 6, 2025 at 4:50 PM CEST, Daniel Almeida wrote: >> So far I see a pattern where sample drivers count as users. This has = been the >> case, for example, for rust_dma.rs. I was under the impression that = the same >> would apply here. Although I do realize that there were plans for dma = code >> other than rust_dma.rs, of course. >=20 > This isn't the case, we have those sample drivers to make it easy to = review the > the code and illustrate in an isolated context how it works. But, = there has > always been a "real" user behind that. In the case of the DMA work it = was Nova. I see, thanks for clarifying! >=20 >> As for Nova and Tyr, these are projects with a lot of big companies = involved. >>=20 >> They were able to break this chicken and egg situation in part due to = that, >> because companies were willing to allocate engineers for both the = drivers _and_ >> the required infrastructure. Unless the same can be said for USB, = media or any >> other subsystems, I don't see it happening. >=20 > Well, this is true for Nova and Tyr, but I disagree that this is the = reason we > were able to break the chicken and egg problem. >=20 > For instance, the initial lift around the driver core, PCI, I/O, etc. > infrastructure was done by me, a single person. This could have been = happening > in the context of a very simple and small driver as well, rather than = a big GPU > driver with lots of companies and people involved. >=20 > Igor (Cc) is doing the initial lift for I2C and Michal (Cc) for PWM = for > instance. >=20 > So, I see those things happen and I don't think that such initial = lifting > necessarily needs big companies with dozens of engineers being = involved. It=E2=80=99s not about the number of people, or the work being out of = reach for a single person, but more of someone asking themselves why it should be = them to do it when there=E2=80=99s no big project like Nova or Tyr to justify it = and employ them to do it all, vs employ them only for the actual drivers but not = for the abstractions. Or if they=E2=80=99re working on their free time, it = becomes even harder to justify spending energy on the abstractions if all they want = is to write a driver. But if anyone got the impression that it is impossible to do it, my bad. = It isn=E2=80=99t. >=20 > If we know people who want to write drivers for a subsystem that = doesn't yet > have Rust infrastructure (such as USB), let's encourage them to get = started / > involved anyways and let's help them as they go. >=20 > But also please don't get me wrong, I understand and very much = appreciate you > want to get the ball rolling, but let's not discourage people by = making it > sounds as if it would be impossible for individuals. >=20 Yeah, point taken :) As I said to Greg above, I=E2=80=99m here to help if anyone wants to = write a USB driver. Those interested are free to reach out to me and we will work = together to merge the required abstractions with a real user in mind. Hopefully = this encourages others to join in this work :) =E2=80=94 Daniel=