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[86.18.22.167]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-390e485d906sm21573380f8f.90.2025.03.05.07.27.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 05 Mar 2025 07:27:19 -0800 (PST) From: To: Cc: "'Nicolas Cavallari'" , "'Dennis Bland'" , "'Ping-Ke Shih'" , , , "'Johannes Berg'" References: <000201db8822$98f28da0$cad7a8e0$@gmail.com> <002d01db8da7$daf2ed50$90d8c7f0$@gmail.com> <319c9de5-e26f-45c0-9200-747c86bce303@green-communications.fr> <001a01db8ddc$019e8890$04db99b0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: wireless-regdb: Allow 6ghz in the US Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 15:27:23 -0000 Message-ID: <000101db8de3$18727b10$49577130$@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQMUrzCf8XdNoAU6+fu4ECJnDc0awgHIktuQAg9ms7MCOQTCTwHce3oJAeRkceYB16Yw4QG9HTMVAdpTHyuweFySQA== Content-Language: en-gb Thank you Wens for cc'ing Johannes One of the issues [1] reported with one the openwrt devices ... my = understanding / experience is that if there is NO-IR basically clients = will not connect (I can't think of a use case where there's prior = traffic) [1] https://github.com/openwrt/openwrt/issues/18079 -----Original Message----- From: Chen-Yu Tsai =20 Sent: 05 March 2025 15:11 To: rmandrad@gmail.com Cc: Nicolas Cavallari ; = Dennis Bland ; Ping-Ke Shih = ; linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org; = wireless-regdb@lists.infradead.org; Johannes Berg = Subject: Re: wireless-regdb: Allow 6ghz in the US Cc-ing Johannes since I think this discussion also involves what = cfg80211 does. On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:36=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > > See below > > > [1] Beacon Hints > " cfg80211 has a feature called beacon hinting to assist cfg80211 in = allowing a card to lift passive-scan and no-beaconing flags. = Passive-scan flags are used on channels to ensure that an interface will = not issue a probe request out. The no-ir flag exists to allow regulatory = domain definitions to disallow a device from initiating radiation of any = kind and that includes using beacons, so for example AP/IBSS/Mesh/GO = interfaces would not be able to initiate communication on these channels = unless the channel does not have this flag. If either of these flags are = present on a channel a device is prohibited from initiating = communication on cfg80211." Doesn't this do what the FCC rules say? No initiating communications = unless prior traffic has been seen on the channel for client devices. > ... > > " It is also important to note that the Linux kernel beacon hint = mechanism only trusts beacons from 802.11 APs, not Mesh or IBSS." > > [1[ =20 > https://wireless.docs.kernel.org/en/latest/en/developers/regulatory/pr > ocessing_rules.html > > My experience is with Openwrt and APs. We have users in the US=20 > complaining that they can't use 6GHz due to NO-IR OK. It would have helped if you explained that it is the AP side that is = not working. Regarding that, AFAIK we don't really have a way to specify different = rules for APs vs client devices. AFAIK all the power limits written in = the database are for client devices, because clients seem to have more = restrictions. ChenYu > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas Cavallari > Sent: 05 March 2025 12:19 > To: wens@kernel.org; rmandrad@gmail.com > Cc: Dennis Bland ; Ping-Ke Shih=20 > ; linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org;=20 > wireless-regdb@lists.infradead.org > Subject: Re: wireless-regdb: Allow 6ghz in the US > > On 05/03/2025 09:58, Chen-Yu Tsai wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 4:23=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > >> > >> That is not specifying NO-IR which basically is denying any 6Ghz in = > >> the US what it means in my opinion is > >> > >> > >> > >> Client devices (like phones, tablets, laptops) need to find Wi-Fi = networks before they can join them. > >> > >> One-way devices do this is by sending out probe requests. These are = little "Are you there?" signals that ask nearby access points (routers) = to respond, so the device knows which networks are available. > > > > Section 122 says: The Commission therefore only permits a client=20 > > device to send a probe request to an access point after it has=20 > > detected a transmission from the access point. The client device=20 > > will be required to send the probe request on the same frequency as=20 > > the access point's transmission. > > > > I think this translates to "passive scanning only", which is what=20 > > NO_IR is meant to specify. NO-IR was previously called PASSIVE-SCAN, = > > and was renamed when it was merged with NO-IBSS. > > > > Maybe the kernel's implementation needs work? I'm not a WiFi person=20 > > so I really don't know all the details. > > > >> That is why drivers use the non 6Ghz for allowing clients to=20 > >> identify the router has 6ghz capabilities=E2=80=A6 I don=E2=80=99t = think is for=20 > >> wireless-regdb to take over the HW router compliance and=20 > >> certification which is what 122. is about > > > > No, section 122 is definitely about client devices, which is what=20 > > Linux devices are. > > No, Linux also supports access point, IBSS, OBSS and mesh, not to = mention monitor injection. > > If you remove NO-IR, you are allowing Linux to create access points, = ad-hoc and mesh networks on the channel without conditions. >