* rt2500usb vs rt73usb
@ 2008-12-28 6:35 Piter PUNK
2008-12-28 9:34 ` Ivo van Doorn
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Piter PUNK @ 2008-12-28 6:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-wireless
Hi,
I have three rt2573 wireless devices:
. TP-Link WN321G
. D-Link DWA-110
. Built-in inside Intel ClassmatePC
The D-Link device loads only the rt73usb module and
works really fine. The other two loads rt73usb AND
rt2500usb. The correct module for all is rt73usb.
Loading rt2500usb AND rt73usb don't have any functional
problem. All wireless devices works fine. But is very
annoying the additional modules loaded.
Both modules are loaded because both handle 148f:2573
devices. Of course my universe is very small, only two
devices, but... devices 148f:2573 that works with
rt2500usb exists? Those devices can work with rt73usb?
If the those 148f:2573 USB devices doesn't exists or
if they exists and works fine with rt73usb, can we
remove 148f:2573 from rt2500usb?
Thanks!
Piter Punk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: rt2500usb vs rt73usb
2008-12-28 6:35 rt2500usb vs rt73usb Piter PUNK
@ 2008-12-28 9:34 ` Ivo van Doorn
2008-12-28 22:14 ` Pavel Roskin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ivo van Doorn @ 2008-12-28 9:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Piter PUNK; +Cc: linux-wireless
On Sunday 28 December 2008, Piter PUNK wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have three rt2573 wireless devices:
>
> . TP-Link WN321G
> . D-Link DWA-110
> . Built-in inside Intel ClassmatePC
>
> The D-Link device loads only the rt73usb module and
> works really fine. The other two loads rt73usb AND
> rt2500usb. The correct module for all is rt73usb.
>
> Loading rt2500usb AND rt73usb don't have any functional
> problem. All wireless devices works fine. But is very
> annoying the additional modules loaded.
>
> Both modules are loaded because both handle 148f:2573
> devices. Of course my universe is very small, only two
> devices, but... devices 148f:2573 that works with
> rt2500usb exists? Those devices can work with rt73usb?
rt2500usb and rt73usb drivers are for different chipsets,
so when rt73usb works for a particular chip the rt2500usb
driver will not work for that same chip.
> If the those 148f:2573 USB devices doesn't exists or
> if they exists and works fine with rt73usb, can we
> remove 148f:2573 from rt2500usb?
No we can't, you can blame manufacturers for shipping
USB sticks with different chipsets but the exact same USB ID.
Ivo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: rt2500usb vs rt73usb
2008-12-28 9:34 ` Ivo van Doorn
@ 2008-12-28 22:14 ` Pavel Roskin
2008-12-28 22:32 ` Ivo van Doorn
2009-01-06 20:27 ` John W. Linville
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Roskin @ 2008-12-28 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ivo van Doorn; +Cc: Piter PUNK, linux-wireless
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 886 bytes --]
On Sun, 2008-12-28 at 10:34 +0100, Ivo van Doorn wrote:
> On Sunday 28 December 2008, Piter PUNK wrote:
> > If the those 148f:2573 USB devices doesn't exists or
> > if they exists and works fine with rt73usb, can we
> > remove 148f:2573 from rt2500usb?
>
> No we can't, you can blame manufacturers for shipping
> USB sticks with different chipsets but the exact same USB ID.
Maybe there are some hints on the USB level that would make it possible
to distinguish between the devices without loading the driver?
Something like the number of endpoints? Then we could ask USB
developers to provide a way to specify them in the USB devece table.
I have a device that works with rt73usb, but not rt2500usb. I'm
attaching the output of "lsusb -v" for the device. If we look at
similar information for other devices, we could find out how to
distinguish them.
--
Regards,
Pavel Roskin
[-- Attachment #2: rt73 --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 2369 bytes --]
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 148f:2573 Ralink Technology, Corp. RT2501USB Wireless Adapter
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x148f Ralink Technology, Corp.
idProduct 0x2573 RT2501USB Wireless Adapter
bcdDevice 0.01
iManufacturer 1 Ralink
iProduct 2 802.11 bg WLAN
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 32
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0x80
(Bus Powered)
MaxPower 300mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 2
bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
bLength 10
bDescriptorType 6
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
bNumConfigurations 1
Device Status: 0x0000
(Bus Powered)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: rt2500usb vs rt73usb
2008-12-28 22:14 ` Pavel Roskin
@ 2008-12-28 22:32 ` Ivo van Doorn
2008-12-28 22:44 ` Luis Correia
2009-01-06 20:27 ` John W. Linville
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ivo van Doorn @ 2008-12-28 22:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pavel Roskin; +Cc: Piter PUNK, linux-wireless
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1473 bytes --]
On Sunday 28 December 2008, Pavel Roskin wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-12-28 at 10:34 +0100, Ivo van Doorn wrote:
> > On Sunday 28 December 2008, Piter PUNK wrote:
>
> > > If the those 148f:2573 USB devices doesn't exists or
> > > if they exists and works fine with rt73usb, can we
> > > remove 148f:2573 from rt2500usb?
> >
> > No we can't, you can blame manufacturers for shipping
> > USB sticks with different chipsets but the exact same USB ID.
>
> Maybe there are some hints on the USB level that would make it possible
> to distinguish between the devices without loading the driver?
> Something like the number of endpoints? Then we could ask USB
> developers to provide a way to specify them in the USB devece table.
Number of endpoints varies, your rt73usb device only has 2 endpoints, while
mine appears to have 5.
The only thing the driver is doing now is reading the EEPROM and double checking
the first 2 bytes to see which device has been loaded.
> I have a device that works with rt73usb, but not rt2500usb. I'm
> attaching the output of "lsusb -v" for the device. If we look at
> similar information for other devices, we could find out how to
> distinguish them.
Please note that some manufacturers (most notorious example Linksys) managed
to get 5 different chipsets under a single USB ID. chipsets came from Broadcom,
Ralink and Prism.
For what it is worth, I am attaching the lsusb -v output from my hardware
(both rt73usb as well as rt2500usb).
Ivo
[-- Attachment #2: usb.rt2500usb --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 4735 bytes --]
Bus 001 Device 006: ID 0681:3c06 Siemens Information and Communication Products
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x0681 Siemens Information and Communication Products
idProduct 0x3c06
bcdDevice 0.01
iManufacturer 1 ANI
iProduct 2 802.11g W
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 32
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0x80
(Bus Powered)
MaxPower 300mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 2
bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
bLength 10
bDescriptorType 6
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
bNumConfigurations 1
Device Status: 0x0000
(Bus Powered)
Bus 001 Device 007: ID 2001:3c00 D-Link Corp. [hex] DWL-G122 802.11g rev. B1 [ralink]
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x2001 D-Link Corp. [hex]
idProduct 0x3c00 DWL-G122 802.11g rev. B1 [ralink]
bcdDevice 0.01
iManufacturer 1 ANI
iProduct 2 802.11g WLAN Adapter
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 32
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0x80
(Bus Powered)
MaxPower 300mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 2
bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
bLength 10
bDescriptorType 6
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
bNumConfigurations 1
Device Status: 0x0000
(Bus Powered)
[-- Attachment #3: usb.rt73usb --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 3450 bytes --]
Bus 001 Device 008: ID 1044:8008 Chu Yuen Enterprise Co., Ltd
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x1044 Chu Yuen Enterprise Co., Ltd
idProduct 0x8008
bcdDevice 0.01
iManufacturer 1 Ralink
iProduct 2 802.11 bg WLAN
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 53
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 4
bmAttributes 0x80
(Bus Powered)
MaxPower 300mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 5
bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol
iInterface 5
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x03 EP 3 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x04 EP 4 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
bLength 10
bDescriptorType 6
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
bNumConfigurations 1
Device Status: 0x0000
(Bus Powered)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: rt2500usb vs rt73usb
2008-12-28 22:32 ` Ivo van Doorn
@ 2008-12-28 22:44 ` Luis Correia
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Luis Correia @ 2008-12-28 22:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ivo van Doorn; +Cc: Pavel Roskin, Piter PUNK, linux-wireless
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1701 bytes --]
Hi all,
for completeness sake, here's the output of my devices as well.
Luis Correia
rt2x00 project admin
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 22:32, Ivo van Doorn <ivdoorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 28 December 2008, Pavel Roskin wrote:
>> On Sun, 2008-12-28 at 10:34 +0100, Ivo van Doorn wrote:
>> > On Sunday 28 December 2008, Piter PUNK wrote:
>>
>> > > If the those 148f:2573 USB devices doesn't exists or
>> > > if they exists and works fine with rt73usb, can we
>> > > remove 148f:2573 from rt2500usb?
>> >
>> > No we can't, you can blame manufacturers for shipping
>> > USB sticks with different chipsets but the exact same USB ID.
>>
>> Maybe there are some hints on the USB level that would make it possible
>> to distinguish between the devices without loading the driver?
>> Something like the number of endpoints? Then we could ask USB
>> developers to provide a way to specify them in the USB devece table.
>
> Number of endpoints varies, your rt73usb device only has 2 endpoints, while
> mine appears to have 5.
> The only thing the driver is doing now is reading the EEPROM and double checking
> the first 2 bytes to see which device has been loaded.
>
>> I have a device that works with rt73usb, but not rt2500usb. I'm
>> attaching the output of "lsusb -v" for the device. If we look at
>> similar information for other devices, we could find out how to
>> distinguish them.
>
> Please note that some manufacturers (most notorious example Linksys) managed
> to get 5 different chipsets under a single USB ID. chipsets came from Broadcom,
> Ralink and Prism.
>
> For what it is worth, I am attaching the lsusb -v output from my hardware
> (both rt73usb as well as rt2500usb).
>
> Ivo
>
[-- Attachment #2: usb.rt2500usb --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 2352 bytes --]
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 148f:2570 Ralink Technology, Corp. 802.11g WiFi
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x148f Ralink Technology, Corp.
idProduct 0x2570 802.11g WiFi
bcdDevice 0.01
iManufacturer 1 Ralink
iProduct 2 802.11g WLAN + Pen Drive
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 32
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0x80
(Bus Powered)
MaxPower 300mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 2
bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
bLength 10
bDescriptorType 6
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
bNumConfigurations 1
Device Status: 0x0000
(Bus Powered)
[-- Attachment #3: usb.rt73usb --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 3469 bytes --]
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 1044:8008 Chu Yuen Enterprise Co., Ltd GN-WB01GS
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x1044 Chu Yuen Enterprise Co., Ltd
idProduct 0x8008 GN-WB01GS
bcdDevice 0.01
iManufacturer 1 Ralink
iProduct 2 802.11 bg WLAN
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 53
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 4
bmAttributes 0x80
(Bus Powered)
MaxPower 300mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 5
bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol
iInterface 5
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x03 EP 3 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x04 EP 4 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes
bInterval 0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
bLength 10
bDescriptorType 6
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
bNumConfigurations 1
Device Status: 0x0000
(Bus Powered)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: rt2500usb vs rt73usb
2008-12-28 22:14 ` Pavel Roskin
2008-12-28 22:32 ` Ivo van Doorn
@ 2009-01-06 20:27 ` John W. Linville
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: John W. Linville @ 2009-01-06 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pavel Roskin; +Cc: Ivo van Doorn, Piter PUNK, linux-wireless
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 05:14:54PM -0500, Pavel Roskin wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-12-28 at 10:34 +0100, Ivo van Doorn wrote:
> > On Sunday 28 December 2008, Piter PUNK wrote:
>
> > > If the those 148f:2573 USB devices doesn't exists or
> > > if they exists and works fine with rt73usb, can we
> > > remove 148f:2573 from rt2500usb?
> >
> > No we can't, you can blame manufacturers for shipping
> > USB sticks with different chipsets but the exact same USB ID.
>
> Maybe there are some hints on the USB level that would make it possible
> to distinguish between the devices without loading the driver?
> Something like the number of endpoints? Then we could ask USB
> developers to provide a way to specify them in the USB devece table.
Seems like a trouble to solve a non-problem...
> > On Sunday 28 December 2008, Piter PUNK wrote:
> > > Loading rt2500usb AND rt73usb don't have any functional
> > > problem. All wireless devices works fine. But is very
> > > annoying the additional modules loaded.
I'm not sure I see how it is annoying, but I'm sorry it annoys you.
Nevertheless, I don't think it is worth much effort to fix it.
John
--
John W. Linville Linux should be at the core
linville@tuxdriver.com of your literate lifestyle.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-01-06 20:30 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2008-12-28 6:35 rt2500usb vs rt73usb Piter PUNK
2008-12-28 9:34 ` Ivo van Doorn
2008-12-28 22:14 ` Pavel Roskin
2008-12-28 22:32 ` Ivo van Doorn
2008-12-28 22:44 ` Luis Correia
2009-01-06 20:27 ` John W. Linville
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