wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[Pekka Pietikainen]

Was looking at the relevant local regulations and noticed the regdb allowed 
less power at 5GHz than is actually allowed. Until I found the "If you don't do TPC you have 
to reduce your power by 3dB sometimes" bit on the next page.

And looks like someone that did the entry for CZ fell into the same trap, they have

"stations in the c and d bands must employ automatic transmitter power
control, which provides, on average, an interference mitigation factor at
least 3 dB on the maximum permitted output power of the systems.  If
automatic power control is not employed, the maximum permitted mean e.i.r.p. 
and the corresponding limit of the mean e.i.r.p.  density for bands c and d
must be reduced by 3 dB;"

Please sanity check, I became very confused while looking into this.
(like some places starting their freq ranges at 2400, others at 2402. Didn't
touch those, regs say 2400-2485,5, 5150-5250, 5250-5350 and 5470-5725)

Signed-off-by: Pekka Pietikäinen <pp@ee.oulu.fi>
diff -up ./db.txt.orig ./db.txt
--- ./db.txt.orig	2010-05-25 15:03:48.812116854 +0300
+++ ./db.txt	2010-05-25 15:58:43.947117884 +0300
@@ -170,11 +170,13 @@ country CY:
 
 # Data from http://www.ctu.eu/164/download/VOR/VOR-12-08-2005-34.pdf
 # and http://www.ctu.eu/164/download/VOR/VOR-12-05-2007-6-AN.pdf
+# Power at 5250 - 5350 MHz and 5470 - 5725 MHz can be doubled if TPC is 
+# implemented.
 country CZ:
 	(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
 	(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
-	(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
-	(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
+	(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
+	(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
 
 # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
 # downloaded from http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
@@ -226,11 +228,15 @@ country ES:
 	(5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
 	(5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
 
+# Data from FICORA Regulation 15Z / 2009 M
+# http://www.ficora.fi/attachments/suomiry/5l1x1FIIk/Viestintavirasto15Z2009M.pdf
+# Power at 5250 - 5350 MHz and 5470 - 5725 MHz can be doubled if TPC is 
+# implemented.
 country FI:
-	(2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
-	(5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
-	(5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
-	(5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
+	(2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW)
+	(5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200mW), NO-OUTDOOR
+	(5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
+	(5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 500mW), DFS
 
 country FR:
 	(2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)

Re: wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

Thanks for the patch, Michael, please review and let me know what you think.

  Luis

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 6:20 AM, Pekka Pietikainen <pp@ee.oulu.fi> wrote:
> Was looking at the relevant local regulations and noticed the regdb allowed
> less power at 5GHz than is actually allowed. Until I found the "If you don't do TPC you have
> to reduce your power by 3dB sometimes" bit on the next page.
>
> And looks like someone that did the entry for CZ fell into the same trap, they have
>
> "stations in the c and d bands must employ automatic transmitter power
> control, which provides, on average, an interference mitigation factor at
> least 3 dB on the maximum permitted output power of the systems.  If
> automatic power control is not employed, the maximum permitted mean e.i.r.p.
> and the corresponding limit of the mean e.i.r.p.  density for bands c and d
> must be reduced by 3 dB;"
>
> Please sanity check, I became very confused while looking into this.
> (like some places starting their freq ranges at 2400, others at 2402. Didn't
> touch those, regs say 2400-2485,5, 5150-5250, 5250-5350 and 5470-5725)
>
> Signed-off-by: Pekka Pietikäinen <pp@ee.oulu.fi>
> diff -up ./db.txt.orig ./db.txt
> --- ./db.txt.orig       2010-05-25 15:03:48.812116854 +0300
> +++ ./db.txt    2010-05-25 15:58:43.947117884 +0300
> @@ -170,11 +170,13 @@ country CY:
>
>  # Data from http://www.ctu.eu/164/download/VOR/VOR-12-08-2005-34.pdf
>  # and http://www.ctu.eu/164/download/VOR/VOR-12-05-2007-6-AN.pdf
> +# Power at 5250 - 5350 MHz and 5470 - 5725 MHz can be doubled if TPC is
> +# implemented.
>  country CZ:
>        (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
>        (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> -       (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> -       (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
> +       (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> +       (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>
>  # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
>  # downloaded from http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
> @@ -226,11 +228,15 @@ country ES:
>        (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
>        (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
>
> +# Data from FICORA Regulation 15Z / 2009 M
> +# http://www.ficora.fi/attachments/suomiry/5l1x1FIIk/Viestintavirasto15Z2009M.pdf
> +# Power at 5250 - 5350 MHz and 5470 - 5725 MHz can be doubled if TPC is
> +# implemented.
>  country FI:
> -       (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> -       (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> -       (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
> -       (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
> +       (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW)
> +       (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> +       (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> +       (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 500mW), DFS
>
>  country FR:
>        (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> --
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>

Re: wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 6:20 AM, Pekka Pietikainen <pp@ee.oulu.fi> wrote:
> Was looking at the relevant local regulations and noticed the regdb allowed
> less power at 5GHz than is actually allowed. Until I found the "If you don't do TPC you have
> to reduce your power by 3dB sometimes" bit on the next page.
>
> And looks like someone that did the entry for CZ fell into the same trap, they have
>
> "stations in the c and d bands must employ automatic transmitter power
> control, which provides, on average, an interference mitigation factor at
> least 3 dB on the maximum permitted output power of the systems.  If
> automatic power control is not employed, the maximum permitted mean e.i.r.p.
> and the corresponding limit of the mean e.i.r.p.  density for bands c and d
> must be reduced by 3 dB;"
>
> Please sanity check, I became very confused while looking into this.
> (like some places starting their freq ranges at 2400, others at 2402. Didn't
> touch those, regs say 2400-2485,5, 5150-5250, 5250-5350 and 5470-5725)
>
> Signed-off-by: Pekka Pietikäinen <pp@ee.oulu.fi>
> diff -up ./db.txt.orig ./db.txt
> --- ./db.txt.orig       2010-05-25 15:03:48.812116854 +0300
> +++ ./db.txt    2010-05-25 15:58:43.947117884 +0300
> @@ -170,11 +170,13 @@ country CY:
>
>  # Data from http://www.ctu.eu/164/download/VOR/VOR-12-08-2005-34.pdf
>  # and http://www.ctu.eu/164/download/VOR/VOR-12-05-2007-6-AN.pdf
> +# Power at 5250 - 5350 MHz and 5470 - 5725 MHz can be doubled if TPC is
> +# implemented.
>  country CZ:
>        (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
>        (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> -       (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> -       (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
> +       (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> +       (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS

Michael -- as per David's review this seems fine, please let us know
if you agree.

>  # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
>  # downloaded from http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
> @@ -226,11 +228,15 @@ country ES:
>        (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
>        (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
>
> +# Data from FICORA Regulation 15Z / 2009 M
> +# http://www.ficora.fi/attachments/suomiry/5l1x1FIIk/Viestintavirasto15Z2009M.pdf
> +# Power at 5250 - 5350 MHz and 5470 - 5725 MHz can be doubled if TPC is
> +# implemented.
>  country FI:
> -       (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> -       (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> -       (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
> -       (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
> +       (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW)
> +       (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> +       (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> +       (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 500mW), DFS

Pekka, please remove these changes from this patch, you want to make
your patches atomic, with only one purpose to help the review process
easier. You stashed changes to CZ & FI on one... You also switched
from dBm to mW and note how you actually did change the EIRP here for
only one for FI. Please provide a separate set of patches for that for
FI. If you want to switch to mW for all of the entries for FI first do
that, and then on a separate patch make the actual regulatory changes
so this is crystal clear for the review process.

So in summary: please post another separate patch for CZ and please
lets wait on Michael's final ACK. The other FI changes should be split
up. Also please CC Michael And David on your e-mails for regulatory
changes, they are not subscribed to linux-wireless but can certainly
help with reviewing these changes. I'll post some suggested updates on
guidelines for patches to wireless-regdb later.

Thanks,

  Luis

Re: wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[Pekka Pietikainen]

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:30:37AM -0700, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> Pekka, please remove these changes from this patch, you want to make
> your patches atomic, with only one purpose to help the review process
> easier. You stashed changes to CZ & FI on one... You also switched
> from dBm to mW and note how you actually did change the EIRP here for
> only one for FI. Please provide a separate set of patches for that for
> FI. If you want to switch to mW for all of the entries for FI first do
> that, and then on a separate patch make the actual regulatory changes
> so this is crystal clear for the review process.
Okie

Looking at it a bit more probably makes sense to codify the current
harmonized EU rules, and then just for each country note that they've
actually implemented it in their local legislation (I checked FI, SE and
CZ).  Everyone should have, but some are pretty slow at this, or
have some special national interests...

The legislation uses mW, so that's the reason I switched them.

For review (first hit on google for the decision number
should find the official text), I can do patches once someone
has verified, that this is what the legalese actually says:

# EU Commission Decision 2009/381/EC
       (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW)
# 2005/513/EC and 2007/90/EC, 5250 and 5470 can be doubled if TPC is in use
       (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200mW), NO-OUTDOOR
       (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
       (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500mW), DFS

Re: wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[Carlos Laué]

I've helped with the regulatory rules for CZ, and I thought we should use lower power limits for 5.25 & 5.47 GHz,  because we cannot assure TPC is enabled or not.
Apparently it should be fine to use this higher limit ( 200 mW / 1000 mW ).
Carlos
 
PS: This was discussed here in linux-wireless in december 2008, and Michael Green wrote:

> The tx power levels are worth discussing more. Even though the European
> countries are harmonized on EN301 893 which enforces 200mW EIRP in 5.15-5.35 and
> 1W EIRP in 5.470-5.725, vendors must not blindly set new hardware to transmit at
> these upper limits.
> 
> Each board design must undergo conformance testing to the applicable RF
> conformance spec (in this case 301 893) at which time the vendor will discover
> that various other tests in the conformance spec will limit the achievable
> compliant tx power for that design and it's associated antennas (i.e. power
> spectral density, spurious emissions, etc. So using 200mW and 1W EIRP in code
> may be fine as an upper limit, fail safe, users of the code / hardware
> developers must be educated to ensure awareness that there is no universal
> "compliant tx power" that you can assign for a country that applies to all the
> different hardware out there.
> 
> Michael Green
> Atheros Communications, Inc.
> mgreen@atheros.com

wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[Michael Green]

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Re: wireless-regdb: FI/CZ updates

[John W. Linville]

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 03:42:58PM +0300, Pekka Pietikainen wrote:
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:30:37AM -0700, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> > Pekka, please remove these changes from this patch, you want to make
> > your patches atomic, with only one purpose to help the review process
> > easier. You stashed changes to CZ & FI on one... You also switched
> > from dBm to mW and note how you actually did change the EIRP here for
> > only one for FI. Please provide a separate set of patches for that for
> > FI. If you want to switch to mW for all of the entries for FI first do
> > that, and then on a separate patch make the actual regulatory changes
> > so this is crystal clear for the review process.
> Okie
> 
> Looking at it a bit more probably makes sense to codify the current
> harmonized EU rules, and then just for each country note that they've
> actually implemented it in their local legislation (I checked FI, SE and
> CZ).  Everyone should have, but some are pretty slow at this, or
> have some special national interests...
> 
> The legislation uses mW, so that's the reason I switched them.
> 
> For review (first hit on google for the decision number
> should find the official text), I can do patches once someone
> has verified, that this is what the legalese actually says:
> 
> # EU Commission Decision 2009/381/EC
>        (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW)
> # 2005/513/EC and 2007/90/EC, 5250 and 5470 can be doubled if TPC is in use
>        (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 200mW), NO-OUTDOOR
>        (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
>        (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500mW), DFS

Ping?

-- 
John W. Linville		Someday the world will need a hero, and you
linville@tuxdriver.com			might be all we have.  Be ready.