JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Matevz Langus]

Hi folks,

I see you are discussing about BDI2000 here. Our company used EST Tools
for many years and they were really good but since Windriver bought EST
they suck.

Which JTAG debugger do you suggest for Mot 8xx/82xx/85xx processors?
If possible without stupid licensing model, where every time Motorola
changes partnumber for the same chip new license and a couple k$ are
needed.

I hope to get honest answers as all producers promise amazing things
which aren't really to believe.

thanks,
  Matevz


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Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Kumar Gala]

I'm guessing most people would recommend the BDI2000.  If I remember
correctly they end up doing support based on 'Family'.  So support for
85xx is one family, 82xx is another, 8xx a third.


- kumar

On Jun 9, 2004, at 4:12 PM, Matevz Langus wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
>
> I see you are discussing about BDI2000 here. Our company used EST Tools
> for many years and they were really good but since Windriver bought EST
> they suck.
>
> Which JTAG debugger do you suggest for Mot 8xx/82xx/85xx processors?
> If possible without stupid licensing model, where every time Motorola
> changes partnumber for the same chip new license and a couple k$ are
> needed.
>
> I hope to get honest answers as all producers promise amazing things
> which aren't really to believe.
>
> thanks,
>   Matevz
>
>


** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Tom Curran]

Yes, that is indeed correct.  The firmware licensing for the Abatron
emulators is done by processor family, not individual processor.  So in the
case of the PPC82xx, the same firmware for debugging with GDB will cover the
entire range of PPC6xx/7xx/7400,7410,5200, and 82xx processors.

Best Regards,
Tom

Tom Curran
Technical Sales Representative
Ultimate Solutions, Inc.
=====================================================
Providing Professional Development Tools For Embedded Systems
Toll Free: 866.455.3383 x257
Direct: 916.789.9358
Fax: 978.926.3091
Email:  tcurran@ultsol.com <mailto:tcurran@ultsol.com>
Web:  www.ultsol.com <http://www.ultsol.com>
FAQ: www.ultsol.com/faqs.htm <http://www.ultsol.com/faqs.htm>


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org
[mailto:owner-linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org]On Behalf Of Kumar
Gala
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 2:17 PM
To: Matevz Langus
Cc: linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org
Subject: Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx



I'm guessing most people would recommend the BDI2000.  If I remember
correctly they end up doing support based on 'Family'.  So support for
85xx is one family, 82xx is another, 8xx a third.


- kumar

On Jun 9, 2004, at 4:12 PM, Matevz Langus wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
>
> I see you are discussing about BDI2000 here. Our company used EST Tools
> for many years and they were really good but since Windriver bought EST
> they suck.
>
> Which JTAG debugger do you suggest for Mot 8xx/82xx/85xx processors?
> If possible without stupid licensing model, where every time Motorola
> changes partnumber for the same chip new license and a couple k$ are
> needed.
>
> I hope to get honest answers as all producers promise amazing things
> which aren't really to believe.
>
> thanks,
>   Matevz
>
>


** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Mark Chambers]

For 8xx, the open source BDM4GDB (which you can get from www.denx.de) is
great.  I also partially ported the bdm driver to Windows for production
testing work.  Under Windows, I've used CrossView (from Tasking.com) with
Macraigor Wiggler (ocdemon.net) - all priced very reasonably.  However
CrossView does not support linux (but BDM4GDB does, of course)

Mark Chambers

>
> Which JTAG debugger do you suggest for Mot 8xx/82xx/85xx processors?
> If possible without stupid licensing model, where every time Motorola
> changes partnumber for the same chip new license and a couple k$ are
> needed.
>


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Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Wolfgang Denk]

In message <007a01c44e69$bb7de860$0301a8c0@chuck2> you wrote:
>
> For 8xx, the open source BDM4GDB (which you can get from www.denx.de) is
> great.  I also partially ported the bdm driver to Windows for production
> testing work.  Under Windows, I've used CrossView (from Tasking.com) with
> Macraigor Wiggler (ocdemon.net) - all priced very reasonably.  However
> CrossView does not support linux (but BDM4GDB does, of course)

Note that the GDB in our ELDK not only supports the BDM4GDB, but also
the wiggler ...

Best regards,

Wolfgang Denk

--
Software Engineering:  Embedded and Realtime Systems,  Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-4596-87  Fax: (+49)-8142-4596-88  Email: wd@denx.de
"You shouldn't make my toaster angry." - Household security explained
in "Johnny Quest"

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RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Andrew Dennison]

> Wolfgang wrote:
>
> Note that the GDB in our ELDK not only supports the BDM4GDB, but also
> the wiggler ...
>

So I could use a wiggler and GDB from ELDK with MPC5200?

I've been asked to try to avoid buying a BDI2000 for now :(

I already have the Greenhills slingshot and Metrowerks Wiretap from the
5200lite kit but they seem to be paper weights without their (expensive)
integrated software tools...

Andrew


** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Wolfgang Denk]

In message <002601c454f4$13e589a0$ee00a8c0@CAT> you wrote:
>
> > Note that the GDB in our ELDK not only supports the BDM4GDB, but also
> > the wiggler ...
>
> So I could use a wiggler and GDB from ELDK with MPC5200?

No, sorry if I gave you a wrong idea.

So far we can only support the BDM interface; to implement  interface
software  for  the  JTAG/COP  port  as  used  on  60x  based  systems
(including the MPC5200) you need special documentation from Motorola,
which is only available under a pretty strict NDA. The terms of  this
NDA  prevent any open source implementation, so we cannot add this to
GDB.


> I've been asked to try to avoid buying a BDI2000 for now :(

What a silly question ;-)

> I already have the Greenhills slingshot and Metrowerks Wiretap from the
> 5200lite kit but they seem to be paper weights without their (expensive)
> integrated software tools...

Indeed.

Just go ahead and buy a BDI2000...

Best regards,

Wolfgang Denk

--
Software Engineering:  Embedded and Realtime Systems,  Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-4596-87  Fax: (+49)-8142-4596-88  Email: wd@denx.de
Contrary to popular belief, thinking does not cause brain damage.

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Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Mark Chambers]

Thanks for this information Wolfgang.  We've been trying to decide between
5200 and an 8xxx for a project and have gotten the distinct feeling that
5200 is somehow not from the same part of the company as 8xxx, and not
supported in the same way.  Do you know, do the 82xx or 85xx processors have
similar restrictions?

Mark Chambers

> Wolfgang wrote:
> So far we can only support the BDM interface; to implement  interface
> software  for  the  JTAG/COP  port  as  used  on  60x  based  systems
> (including the MPC5200) you need special documentation from Motorola,
> which is only available under a pretty strict NDA. The terms of  this
> NDA  prevent any open source implementation, so we cannot add this to
> GDB.
>


** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Wolfgang Denk]

In message <001501c45535$8aecd120$0301a8c0@chuck2> you wrote:
> Thanks for this information Wolfgang.  We've been trying to decide between
> 5200 and an 8xxx for a project and have gotten the distinct feeling that
> 5200 is somehow not from the same part of the company as 8xxx, and not
> supported in the same way.  Do you know, do the 82xx or 85xx processors have
> similar restrictions?

The same restrictions are in place for all processors with a JTAG/COP
port, i. e. all what's ther eis in the 52xx, 82xx, 85xx,  7xx,  74xx,
... families. Just the 5xx/8xx which use BDM are an exception.

Best regards,

Wolfgang Denk

--
Software Engineering:  Embedded and Realtime Systems,  Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-4596-87  Fax: (+49)-8142-4596-88  Email: wd@denx.de
No user-servicable parts inside. Refer to qualified service personnel.

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Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Mark Chambers]

Andrew,

I went down this same path!  No, the 5200 JTAG is quite different from 8xx
and a little different from 8xxx so no version of the Wiggler will work,
although Macraigor says they are planning to support 5200 soon.

When I was evaluating the 5200Lite I used the Motorola boot to load
zImage.elf, and that let me play with linux.

I hope Greenhills and Metrowerks are listening - their debuggers are
unusable in IMHO.  As a hardware designer I'm typically the guy who
recommends a debugger to the programmers, so if they don't have a tool that
lets you poke around without a whole project structure, they're not going to
get my vote.

So, another win for BDI, I guess.

Mark Chambers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Dennison" <andrew.dennison@motec.com.au>
To: <linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 1:21 AM
Subject: RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx


>
> > Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > Note that the GDB in our ELDK not only supports the BDM4GDB, but also
> > the wiggler ...
> >
>
> So I could use a wiggler and GDB from ELDK with MPC5200?
>
> I've been asked to try to avoid buying a BDI2000 for now :(
>
> I already have the Greenhills slingshot and Metrowerks Wiretap from the
> 5200lite kit but they seem to be paper weights without their (expensive)
> integrated software tools...
>
> Andrew
>
>
>


** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Andrew Dennison]

Mark Chambers wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> I went down this same path!  No, the 5200 JTAG is quite
> different from 8xx
> and a little different from 8xxx so no version of the Wiggler
> will work,
> although Macraigor says they are planning to support 5200 soon.
>
> When I was evaluating the 5200Lite I used the Motorola boot to load
> zImage.elf, and that let me play with linux.
>

Hi Mark,
Yeah - I used the Motorola boot loader to install u-boot to boot low on my
5200lite.

However I've almost finished our custom HW design so need proper tools to
bring up the new board. I'm doing both the hardware and software so I make
my own recommendations - after consulting with others so I don't re-invent
the wheel...

Hadn't realised there was a mix of BDM and JTAG on PPC processors - the
5200 is the first PPC I've played with.

Andrew


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RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Fahd Abidi]

Hi Matevz,

In the BDI, the 85xx is a different family from the 82xx which is different
from 8xx. The reason for this is that the JTAG connection requires a
different startup sequence, plus a whole different set of core registers....
basically enough work went into building the support into the tool that it
justified charging for a new firmware. You can check from
http://www.abatron.ch/products/xr/aspx/rx/default.htm the list of processors
supported in any given firmware.

The BDI is a very well supported tool, Abatron is very fast on its heals in
providing support and identifying (and fixing) bugs with new processor
families. And you know my opinion is totally unbiased since I work for
Ultimate Solutions.... the north American Rep for Abatron... ;)

I hope people on this list can attest to the support Abatron and Myself have
provided to support their development efforts in North America. Can't
promise amazing things, but it works pretty darn well.... That's marketing
speak.

Fahd Abidi
Field Applications Engineer
Ultimate Solutions, Inc.
=================================================
Professional Development Tools for Embedded Systems
Toll Free: 866-455-3383 x255
Facsimile: 978-926-3091
Email: fabidi@ultsol.com
www: http://www.ultsol.com
FAQ: http://www.ultsol.com/faqs.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Matevz Langus [mailto:matevz.langus@fortunal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 4:13 PM
Subject: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

I see you are discussing about BDI2000 here. Our company used EST Tools
for many years and they were really good but since Windriver bought EST
they suck.

Which JTAG debugger do you suggest for Mot 8xx/82xx/85xx processors?
If possible without stupid licensing model, where every time Motorola
changes partnumber for the same chip new license and a couple k$ are
needed.

I hope to get honest answers as all producers promise amazing things
which aren't really to believe.

** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[VanBaren, Gerald (AGRE)]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org
> [mailto:owner-linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org]On Behalf Of Matevz
> Langus
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 5:13 PM
> To: linuxppc-embedded@lists.linuxppc.org
> Subject: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I see you are discussing about BDI2000 here. Our company used
> EST Tools
> for many years and they were really good but since Windriver
> bought EST
> they suck.
>
> Which JTAG debugger do you suggest for Mot 8xx/82xx/85xx processors?
> If possible without stupid licensing model, where every time Motorola
> changes partnumber for the same chip new license and a couple k$ are
> needed.
>
> I hope to get honest answers as all producers promise amazing things
> which aren't really to believe.
>
> thanks,
>   Matevz

BDI2000 beats vision* hands down in pretty much all areas (price, usability, manufacturer's support, linux support, etc.).  Of course, I have to confess I have not used our visionICE since we got our first (of many) BDI2000s, so my knowledge of the visionICE is rather dated :-).

gvb


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RE: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

[Fahd Abidi]

Mark,

The 82xx and 85xx have very Similar Jtag Headers. From the BDI's perspective
the JTAG interface was the same for both, the target JTAG cable we provide
is the same for both the 85xx and 82xx, the JTAG pinouts are the same for
both.

The things that have changed (from the BDI's perspective) are:

Register set has been changed-- the BDI needs to be aware of a whole
different set of registers to access to determine the state of the processor
and set breakpoints.

Startup Sequence has changed,BDI will bring up the 82xx processor set an
initial breakpoint (at the boot vector), then run the processor till we hit
the breakpoint. For the 85xx breakpoints do not work until the debug vectors
point to valid code. Hence it is not possible for the BDI to stop the 85xx
processor by setting a breakpoint at startup like the 82xx series. The work
around is that we loop endlessly in L2SRAM and halt the processor there.
Then unmap the L2SRAM, at which point you can set a breakpoint on the
bootvector and run the processor till it hits the breakpoint. MPC85xx Rev1
will let you single step right from the L2SRAM where as MPC85xx rev2 needs
to hit the bootvector before single stepping is possible.

I attached the PowerQuiccIII Jtag interface guide for you to see, the
interface is exactly the same as for the 82xx.

Fahd

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Chambers
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: JTAG debuggers for Motorola 8xx/82xx/85xx

Thanks for this information Wolfgang. We've been trying to decide
between 5200 and an 8xxx for a project and have gotten the distinct
feeling that 5200 is somehow not from the same part of the company as
8xxx, and not supported in the same way. Do you know, do the 82xx or
85xx processors have similar restrictions?

Mark Chambers

> Wolfgang wrote:
> So far we can only support the BDM interface; to implement interface
> software for the JTAG/COP port as used on 60x based systems (including
> the MPC5200) you need special documentation from Motorola, which
> is only available under a pretty strict NDA. The terms of this NDA
> prevent any open source implementation, so we cannot add this to GDB.

** Sent via the linuxppc-embedded mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/