AW: Sound on an iBook?

AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Halfmann, Klaus]

Christof Petig <mailto:christof.petig@wtal.de> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I got no answer on the debian-ppc list, so I'll try here.
>
> does anybody know a way to get the sound hardware on my iBook working?
> Everything else is working fine.
>

The iBook has a different Hardware than all other Macs found so far.

There is an (unsupported, ugly ...) version of dmasound that
sometimes works on iBooks, but it provides no control of the
output, it just takes what OF or MacOS left behind. So using
such a Kernel/Module is a kind of russian roulette because it
will block forever when intializing fails.

This issue needs a good assembler-/Forth- Programmer that must
use MacsBug in MacOS or dissassemble the OF to find out whats
going on there. I'd really like to do that but that is nothing
I can do when going to work by train ....

              |          __    hasi@penguinppc.org
+--------+    |   |\  | |  \
| +----+ |    v   | \ | |__/   Klaus Halfmann
| |... | |   .^.  |  \| |      Kirchstraße 24a
| |..  | |  <   >      |       67691 Hochspeyer
| +----+ |   'v'       |
|_____==_|+==-------------==+  GERMANY
 |      | |   --__  __--    |
 +------+ +-------==--------+


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Michael Schmitz]

> > I got no answer on the debian-ppc list, so I'll try here.
> >
> > does anybody know a way to get the sound hardware on my iBook working?
> > Everything else is working fine.
> >
>
> The iBook has a different Hardware than all other Macs found so far.
[...]
> This issue needs a good assembler-/Forth- Programmer that must
> use MacsBug in MacOS or dissassemble the OF to find out whats
> going on there. I'd really like to do that but that is nothing
> I can do when going to work by train ....

Christof could always resort to petitioning Apple to release the specs, or
digging though Darwin source code to discover the secret.

	Michael


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Iain Sandoe]

Hi All,

(Michael, this might not make to you... because of the dreaded ORBS
situation - which *still* hasn't been resolved after 4 months).

>> > I got no answer on the debian-ppc list, so I'll try here.
>> >
>> > does anybody know a way to get the sound hardware on my iBook working?
>> > Everything else is working fine.
>> >
>>
>> The iBook has a different Hardware than all other Macs found so far.
> [...]
>> This issue needs a good assembler-/Forth- Programmer that must
>> use MacsBug in MacOS or dissassemble the OF to find out whats
>> going on there. I'd really like to do that but that is nothing
>> I can do when going to work by train ....
>
> Christof could always resort to petitioning Apple to release the specs, or
> digging though Darwin source code to discover the secret.

There was a guy working on the iBook sound (which was why I'd left it alone
for now).  He said that it only took a couple of lines to get sound out...
although I suspect you'll have to rely on whatever settings MacOS last left
for it.... because...

The "problem" is that the mixer abstraction needs a re-write to talk to the
Micronas chip.

I've been (very) out of circulation and will be until Xmas or so... but if I
have a chance I'll see if I can find the relevant lines (IIRC it only
involves detecting the iBook in init and dealing with the register
assignments... but it's been a while since I looked).

Iain.

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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Iain Sandoe]

duh! just read the whole thread...

[...]
> Christof could always resort to petitioning Apple to release the specs, or
> digging though Darwin source code to discover the secret.

the chip specs are freely available:

http://www.micronas.com/documentation/data_sheet/dac3550a_1ds.pdf

Ben H might know something about driving the iBook i2c busses - I think that
they are the new Apple "cereal" style which are also present on the PCI host
bridges... but not quite sure.

Iain.

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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Benjamin Herrenschmidt]

>This issue needs a good assembler-/Forth- Programmer that must
>use MacsBug in MacOS or dissassemble the OF to find out whats
>going on there. I'd really like to do that but that is nothing
>I can do when going to work by train ..

Well, the DACA chip itself seem to be a non-Apple thing, so doc
for it may be available. The issue is more to have an i2c driver
for KeyLargo.

I don't think hacking the forth code is the easiest solution for
that ;) It's probably a lot simpler to look at Darwin driver to
figure out how the chip works ;)

Ben.


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Christof Petig]

"Halfmann, Klaus" wrote:

> Christof Petig <mailto:christof.petig@wtal.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I got no answer on the debian-ppc list, so I'll try here.
> >
> > does anybody know a way to get the sound hardware on my iBook working?
> > Everything else is working fine.
> >
>
> The iBook has a different Hardware than all other Macs found so far.

Yes, this validates my suspicions.

> There is an (unsupported, ugly ...) version of dmasound that
> sometimes works on iBooks, but it provides no control of the
> output,

read: no volume control, no frequency change? That is not nice but
acceptable.

> it just takes what OF or MacOS left behind. So using
> such a Kernel/Module is a kind of russian roulette because it
> will block forever when intializing fails.

I would love/dare to try it.

> This issue needs a good assembler-/Forth- Programmer that must
> use MacsBug in MacOS or dissassemble the OF to find out whats
> going on there.

Oh no, that sounds really bad. No specs available, no darwin driver?

> I'd really like to do that but that is nothing
> I can do when going to work by train ....

Hmm. It reads like a joke. But I love to work on my computer in a train.

I would offer some time but I don't know any PPC assembly. C and
Linux-kernel are no strangers to me.

Christof


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Christof Petig]

Iain Sandoe wrote:

> duh! just read the whole thread...
>
> [...]
> > Christof could always resort to petitioning Apple to release the specs, or
> > digging though Darwin source code to discover the secret.
>
> the chip specs are freely available:
>
> http://www.micronas.com/documentation/data_sheet/dac3550a_1ds.pdf
>
> Ben H might know something about driving the iBook i2c busses - I think that
> they are the new Apple "cereal" style which are also present on the PCI host
> bridges... but not quite sure.

The link is dead, but
http://www.micronas.com/products/documentation/consumer/dac3550a/index.php
works for me well.

Thank you very much for this information!

Christof


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Iain Sandoe]

Christof Petig wrote:

>[...]
>
> The link is dead, but
> http://www.micronas.com/products/documentation/consumer/dac3550a/index.php
> works for me well.

thanks for the update.

> Thank you very much for this information!

OK.  I think my first reply may have gone astray (it never showed up here
anyway)...

This is what I (think) I know about the "problem".

1/  The output uses dmdma same as the other chips - so fixing up init() to
recognise the iBook and do the necessary register assignments from the OF
tree should be an OK solution (i.e. no more ugly than any other version of
the dmasound driver)... except for:

2/  There is *no* mixer abstraction - because the chip is driven through i2c
(like the sound control chip on the G3/beige - which I *have* played with -
unfortunately a different i2c bus).  Which is why you get whatever OF
leaves..

I suspect that 'freezing' has got nothing to do with the chip per se... but
probably more to do with invalid mixer abstraction code being called.

========

So you will need to:

Fix up the init code - and maybe the register map. although I suspect this
has been done in the hack to which Klaus referred.. don't know which hack
(it's not in mine ;-).

write a mixer abstraction modelled on the ones for awacs and burgundy.  A
little nasty 'cos the code has evolved into something with many arms... ;-)

also there are many bodges to represent the Apple hardware under OSS - which
doesn't really have the API for the resources...  I have an idea to address
this as well - but it will have to wait for a few more weeks.

I have a request...

when I get back on line with the dmasound driver (expect Jan 01) I want to
continue with a code tidy - basically partitioning the source so that one
chip set is dealt with in one file (leaving the common dbdma abstraction
aside).

There are many issues (not least of which is maintaining a common base
across the 68k stuff as well) to address in this split-up but I think it's
long overdue.

So, if you have a go (and think there *are* some bits of useful code in
Darwin)... it would help me if the daca-specific mixer abstraction was
clearly separated from the other stuff.  (better still in a separate source
file from the start ;-)

thanks,
Iain.


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[D.J. Barrow]

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[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii, Size: 1798 bytes --]


No I2C is as old as the hills, I2C is a philips serial
bus standard for talking to upto 256 devices on the
one two wire bus. It is pretty crappy simple & slow &
philips generally used it to talk to digital tuners on
radios.


It is also commonly used in embedded stuff, I wrote a
driver for apples tv tuner card on a performa 630 when
I was working for them.

I didn't talk i2c directly but talked to the cuda
manager on the mac os, however, I made a fake i2c bus
via 2 pins on the paralell port of a pc.

If you want to know more about this look for specs on
the cuda chip if you can find them. However I suspect
a
few things have changed since I did my stuff since
Apple loves moving asics around to keep chip designers
mentally masturbating :-).

--- Christof Petig <christof.petig@wtal.de> wrote:
>
> Iain Sandoe wrote:
>
> > duh! just read the whole thread...
> >
> > [...]
> > > Christof could always resort to petitioning
> Apple to release the specs, or
> > > digging though Darwin source code to discover
> the secret.
> >
> > the chip specs are freely available:
> >
> >
>
http://www.micronas.com/documentation/data_sheet/dac3550a_1ds.pdf
> >
> > Ben H might know something about driving the iBook
> i2c busses - I think that
> > they are the new Apple "cereal" style which are
> also present on the PCI host
> > bridges... but not quite sure.
>
> The link is dead, but
>
http://www.micronas.com/products/documentation/consumer/dac3550a/index.php
> works for me well.
>
> Thank you very much for this information!
>
> Christof
>
>
>


=====
D.J. Barrow Linux for S/390 kernel developer
eMail: djbarrow@de.ibm.com,barrow_dj@yahoo.com
Phone: +49-(0)7031-16-2583
IBM Germany Lab, Schönaicherstr. 220, 71032 Böblingen


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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Iain Sandoe]

D.J. Barrow wrote:

> No I2C is as old as the hills, I2C is a philips serial
> bus standard for talking to upto 256 devices on the
> one two wire bus. It is pretty crappy simple & slow &
> philips generally used it to talk to digital tuners on
> radios.

well, there are other versions faster and with bigger address ranges... but
that wasn't my point.

we are all quite familiar with i2c.

the new thing here is the particular Apple hardware, registers etc. used to
implement the bus interface... another set of stuff we may have to deduce
the hard way.

it's not the cuda - the iBook doesn't have a cuda - AFAIK.  (PMU, I expect).

and... actually, I think the asics are more there to keep costs down... but
each to his own ;-)


Iain.

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Re: AW: Sound on an iBook?

[Michel Lanners]

Hi all,

On   8 Dec, this message from Iain Sandoe echoed through cyberspace:
> we are all quite familiar with i2c.
>
> the new thing here is the particular Apple hardware, registers etc. used to
> implement the bus interface... another set of stuff we may have to deduce
> the hard way.
>
> it's not the cuda - the iBook doesn't have a cuda - AFAIK.  (PMU, I expect).

You might want to look for the aproach Apple used when implementing I2C
in the planb ASIC (that was in the 7500/8500 machines, back around
'94-'95). This I2C interface talks to a single chip on the bus (the
SAA7196 video decoder), and it goes like this: write the target device
register subaddress into some register, wait a bit, write the data into
another register, and off it goes into the target device.

There is a third register that monitors the SAA7196's only readable
register, a status register.

FWIW, register address is at 0x200, data is at 0x204, and status at
0x208 into planb's address space.

Of course, KeyLargo might work in an entirely different way...

Michel

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