* Re: Lombard shuts itself off
1999-09-17 14:38 ` Josh Huber
@ 1999-09-17 15:27 ` Michael Schmitz
1999-09-17 15:32 ` Shaw Terwilliger
1999-09-17 16:10 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Michael Schmitz @ 1999-09-17 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Huber; +Cc: linuxppc-dev
> > After about 5 minutes on battery power (this battery is fully
> > charged), the machine just shuts off. At first I thought it
> > was a DPMS setting that kicked in after no activity, but this
> > time I was typing away inside of X. The machine just turns off.
> I'm experiencing something similar to this...
>
> It's almost as if the battery gets disconnected sometimes:
> I put the machine to sleep in MacOS, unplug the power strip, put it in my case, and walk around with it for a while, open the case up, and...oh look at that the led isn't blinking any more!
I can't reproduce this. This is not to say that I hadn't noticed mysterious
random powerdowns before, but these were few and far between. No idea what
caused them.
Michael
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Lombard shuts itself off
1999-09-17 14:38 ` Josh Huber
1999-09-17 15:27 ` Michael Schmitz
@ 1999-09-17 15:32 ` Shaw Terwilliger
1999-09-17 17:29 ` David A. Gatwood
1999-09-17 16:10 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Shaw Terwilliger @ 1999-09-17 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Huber; +Cc: linuxppc-dev
Josh Huber wrote:
> It's almost as if the battery gets disconnected sometimes:
> I put the machine to sleep in MacOS, unplug the power strip, put it in my case, and walk around with it for a while, open the case up, and...oh look at that the led isn't blinking any more!
Yes, it's just like like the battery got yanked out (which I've done
once; just once! The Lombards have that bay release lever in the
ultimate "shirt-catching" position). I know both times the machine
shut off without warning, I was nowhere near the lever. Once it
was just sitting on a table, once in my lap.
> Then, the same thing started happening with linux...
I don't run MacOS on this laptop, so I don't have a frame of
reference that includes MacOS's power management. I was assuming
my problems might be related to a 5-minute "no more wall power!"
PMU signal Linux might be mis-handling.
I really haven't timed the delay before the outage; maybe today
I'll just remount root ro and watch the clock.
> It gets to a point where I can't get the machine to boot again without putting the power plug back in.
I've never had this problem. For me the only problems are when the
machine is booted from the wall, then pulled and used with the
battery (full power, all four lights on the status thingy).
> I haven't tried this out yet...I almost always boot it with the power in. Perhaps I'll try this.
I usually use my PowerBook with the power adaptor instead of the battery,
because I'm usually in a comfortable chair at home, and because I
really, really don't want to sit through a fsck of a 6 GB laptop
drive if I take it out somewhere. :)
Something else for the experts:
I'm not sure how to read the status lights on my battery.
- When it's booted from the wall, with the battery in, usually
the "normal" things happens: the battery lights are off until
I hit the button, then they come on for 4 seconds and go off.
- Sometimes, like when I unplug it from the wall, and then plug
it back into the wall, the lights will come on and stay on
for minutes. Pressing the button does nothing. I'm assuming
this is a short "charge" stage... maybe not.
- Sometimes, when it's been plugged into the wall for a long,
long time, and there should be no charging needed, the lights
will also stay on for minutes or hours at a time; pressing
the button won't turn them off.
--
Shaw Terwilliger (sterwill@io.nu)
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Lombard shuts itself off
1999-09-17 15:32 ` Shaw Terwilliger
@ 1999-09-17 17:29 ` David A. Gatwood
1999-09-17 20:14 ` Shaw Terwilliger
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: David A. Gatwood @ 1999-09-17 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Shaw Terwilliger; +Cc: Josh Huber, linuxppc-dev
On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Shaw Terwilliger wrote:
> Yes, it's just like like the battery got yanked out (which I've done
> once; just once! The Lombards have that bay release lever in the
> ultimate "shirt-catching" position). I know both times the machine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Same thing on the WallStreet. And I thought I was the only one who found
that obnoxious. :-)
David
> > Then, the same thing started happening with linux...
>
> I don't run MacOS on this laptop, so I don't have a frame of
> reference that includes MacOS's power management. I was assuming
> my problems might be related to a 5-minute "no more wall power!"
> PMU signal Linux might be mis-handling.
Did you remove the cord from the back or just the wall?
> I'm not sure how to read the status lights on my battery.
>
> - When it's booted from the wall, with the battery in, usually
> the "normal" things happens: the battery lights are off until
> I hit the button, then they come on for 4 seconds and go off.
>
> - Sometimes, like when I unplug it from the wall, and then plug
> it back into the wall, the lights will come on and stay on
> for minutes. Pressing the button does nothing. I'm assuming
> this is a short "charge" stage... maybe not.
Assuming it's like the wallstreet in this regard, the lights stay on while
the battery is charging to indicate the charge status. As soon as it
finishes charging, they go off.
> - Sometimes, when it's been plugged into the wall for a long,
> long time, and there should be no charging needed, the lights
> will also stay on for minutes or hours at a time; pressing
> the button won't turn them off.
Again, based on the wallstreet's behaviour, sometimes the battery gets
confused. Eject the battery and reinsert it (leave the power cord plugged
in so your machine doesn't die) and it should probably figure out what's
going on.
David
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Lombard shuts itself off
1999-09-17 17:29 ` David A. Gatwood
@ 1999-09-17 20:14 ` Shaw Terwilliger
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Shaw Terwilliger @ 1999-09-17 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David A. Gatwood; +Cc: Josh Huber, linuxppc-dev
David A. Gatwood wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Shaw Terwilliger wrote:
> > Yes, it's just like like the battery got yanked out (which I've done
> > once; just once! The Lombards have that bay release lever in the
> > ultimate "shirt-catching" position). I know both times the machine
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Same thing on the WallStreet. And I thought I was the only one who found
> that obnoxious. :-)
I'm now very careful how I move it around in my lap. I
subconsciously move it in planes parallel to the lie of
the lever in the rest position, picking it up to move it
perpendicular as necessary. :)
> Did you remove the cord from the back or just the wall?
I'm always removing the cord from the back of the machine,
never from the wall.
> Assuming it's like the wallstreet in this regard, the lights stay on while
> the battery is charging to indicate the charge status. As soon as it
> finishes charging, they go off.
That's what I was guessing it was doing, but it doesn't always
stick to this plan, so I was confused.
> Again, based on the wallstreet's behaviour, sometimes the battery gets
> confused. Eject the battery and reinsert it (leave the power cord plugged
> in so your machine doesn't die) and it should probably figure out what's
> going on.
Yeah... I had a wacky idea today: Maybe when I unplugged the
machine from its wall supply, the battery had worked its way
either (1) away from the contacts inside the bay or (2) into a
state of denial, where it was fully in the bay but the machine
didn't know it. In this case, perhaps the PowerBook can handle
five minutes on a small internal battery before dying. I figure
if I was the one implementing this feature I'd throw a message
to the operating system that you had a short period of time to
get power back (like putting in a new battery)... being that Linux
isn't getting any support or attention from the PMU people maybe
it's doing this. This would be a great feature for someone
swapping batteries while keeping the machine on (and while away
from an outlet, like on a plane) but would add lots to the
weight and cost, I'd think.
This is just a wild guess on my part, and Ben or Paul probably know
much more about this than I do, but it's almost consistent with
the situation, given that this magical internal battery exists. :)
--
Shaw Terwilliger (sterwill@io.nu)
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Lombard shuts itself off
1999-09-17 14:38 ` Josh Huber
1999-09-17 15:27 ` Michael Schmitz
1999-09-17 15:32 ` Shaw Terwilliger
@ 1999-09-17 16:10 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
1999-09-19 14:31 ` Josh Huber
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt @ 1999-09-17 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Huber, linuxppc-dev
On Fri, Sep 17, 1999, Josh Huber <huberj@WPI.EDU> wrote:
>It's almost as if the battery gets disconnected sometimes:
>I put the machine to sleep in MacOS, unplug the power strip, put it in
my case,
>and walk around with it for a while, open the case up, and...oh look at that
>the led isn't blinking any more!
>
>Then, the same thing started happening with linux...
>
>It gets to a point where I can't get the machine to boot again without
putting
>the power plug back in.
>
>I was suspicious of a faulty battery bay, so I (temporarily) moved the
battery
>over to the other bay last night -- we'll see how that works.
I have a similar problem with my wallstreet. It seems to survive quite
well when travelling with in bag, but when working with it on my knees, A
brutal move sometimes disconnects the battery.
There is still a possibility of a problem with PMU communication. This
beast is quite sensitive to various timing issues, and when something
goes wrong, it shuts the machine down abruptly.
--
Perso. e-mail: <mailto:bh40@calva.net>
Work e-mail: <mailto:benh@mipsys.com>
BenH. Web : <http://calvaweb.calvacom.fr/bh40/>
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: Lombard shuts itself off
1999-09-17 16:10 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
@ 1999-09-19 14:31 ` Josh Huber
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Josh Huber @ 1999-09-19 14:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linuxppc-dev
Benjamin Herrenschmidt writes:
>
> I have a similar problem with my wallstreet. It seems to survive quite
> well when travelling with in bag, but when working with it on my knees, A
> brutal move sometimes disconnects the battery.
>
> There is still a possibility of a problem with PMU communication. This
> beast is quite sensitive to various timing issues, and when something
> goes wrong, it shuts the machine down abruptly.
Well, it happaned again, but this time is was sleeping last night on my desk with the power cord attached!
I woke up this morning, and the sleep led was flashing, but when I pressed a key, it didn't wake up, the led went off, and nothing happaned.
My question is this:
Ben, is it possible that there could be a problem with the wakup code that caused this problem, or do you think that i should call and complain to apple?
My battery was in the right compartment, and it wasn't moving around at all, but then again it was also still hooked up to wall power...
The suspicious thing is that the led was still flashing, but usually when I have this problem (with I'm carrying it around w/o power) the led stops blinking..although it has happened like this before.
Never while it was hooked up to AC power though.
A similar thing happens in MacOS, which is why I'm inclined to call apple on this one...
Josh
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread