RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[FASSINO Jean-Philippe]

Hello,

Just a question about RTAS on PowerMac G4,
does linux kernel can call RTAS function ?
And if not, why ?
I'm trying to do it and that fail...

JP


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[tom_gall]

FASSINO Jean-Philippe wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Just a question about RTAS on PowerMac G4,
> does linux kernel can call RTAS function ?

Hi Jean-Philippe,

  You can call RTAS on a PowerMac but I wouldn't do it. From what I understand
Apple doesn't recommend that you make use of RTAS on their hardware.

  On RS/6000 hardware you most certainly can use RTAS.

> And if not, why ?
> I'm trying to do it and that fail...
>
> JP

--
Tom Gall - PowerPC Linux Team    "Where's the ka-boom? There was
Linux Technology Center           supposed to be an earth
(w) tom_gall@vnet.ibm.com         shattering ka-boom!"
(w) 507-253-4558                 -- Marvin Martian
(h) tgall@uswest.net
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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[Donald Cowart]

Newbie question, what is RTAS?

Donald Cowart  (dcowart@acld.lib.fl.us)
Network Manager
Alachua County Library District
Gainesville, FL

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 tom_gall@vnet.ibm.com wrote:

>
> FASSINO Jean-Philippe wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Just a question about RTAS on PowerMac G4,
> > does linux kernel can call RTAS function ?
>
> Hi Jean-Philippe,
>
>   You can call RTAS on a PowerMac but I wouldn't do it. From what I understand
> Apple doesn't recommend that you make use of RTAS on their hardware.
>
>   On RS/6000 hardware you most certainly can use RTAS.
>
> > And if not, why ?
> > I'm trying to do it and that fail...
> >
> > JP
>
> --
> Tom Gall - PowerPC Linux Team    "Where's the ka-boom? There was
> Linux Technology Center           supposed to be an earth
> (w) tom_gall@vnet.ibm.com         shattering ka-boom!"
> (w) 507-253-4558                 -- Marvin Martian
> (h) tgall@uswest.net
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux
>
>


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[tom_gall]

Donald Cowart wrote:
>
> Newbie question, what is RTAS?

RTAS == Run-Time Abstraction Services

In a nutshell an API the OS may utilize to perform various tasks which without
RTAS would be hardware dependant. For example: reading the level on a battery on
a portable, and so on.

> Donald Cowart  (dcowart@acld.lib.fl.us)


--
Tom Gall - PowerPC Linux Team    "Where's the ka-boom? There was
Linux Technology Center           supposed to be an earth
(w) tom_gall@vnet.ibm.com         shattering ka-boom!"
(w) 507-253-4558                 -- Marvin Martian
(h) tgall@uswest.net
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux

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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[FASSINO Jean-Philippe]

Donald Cowart wrote:

> Newbie question, what is RTAS?

It is the Run-Time Abstraction Services which provide functions
to insulate operating systems from having to know about and manipulating
a number devices. It is a interface between hardware and software.
For example, RTAS provide functions for reading and writing PCI configuration,
shutdown, reboot, get time, managing power, ... of the CHRP computer.

JP


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[FASSINO Jean-Philippe]

tom_gall@vnet.ibm.com wrote:

>   You can call RTAS on a PowerMac but I wouldn't do it. From what I understand
> Apple doesn't recommend that you make use of RTAS on their hardware.

Do you know why ?
Because for embedded systems it is very usefull !

JP


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[Benjamin Herrenschmidt]

>
>Just a question about RTAS on PowerMac G4,
>does linux kernel can call RTAS function ?
>And if not, why ?
>I'm trying to do it and that fail...

RTAS in not correctly implemented in those machines. Apple is apparently
abandonning it, the implementation in ROM for all core99 machines is
bogus. What do you want to use RTAS for ?

Ben.


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[FASSINO Jean-Philippe]

Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:

> >
> >Just a question about RTAS on PowerMac G4,
> >does linux kernel can call RTAS function ?
> >And if not, why ?
> >I'm trying to do it and that fail...
>
> RTAS in not correctly implemented in those machines. Apple is apparently
> abandonning it, the implementation in ROM for all core99 machines is
> bogus. What do you want to use RTAS for ?

In the kernel for PPC, a lot a code is here just to do what doing RTAS :
pci config,
via (CUDA and PMU) (no need if no ADB keyboard), ...
When doing embedded systems, this drivers is very big and can be saving by
using
RTAS which i think is a very good thing in  CHRP specification. It's
strange that
apple do not provide it fully.

JP




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 Tel : 04 76 76 45 52
 mailto:jeanphilippe.fassino@francetelecom.fr
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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[Hollis Blanchard]

FASSINO Jean-Philippe wrote:
>
> When doing embedded systems, this drivers is very big and can be saving by
> using
> RTAS which i think is a very good thing in  CHRP specification. It's
> strange that
> apple do not provide it fully.

I don't think Apple makes any embedded systems. As Tom mentioned though,
other hardware vendors care...

-Hollis

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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[Benjamin Herrenschmidt]

>In the kernel for PPC, a lot a code is here just to do what doing RTAS :
>pci config,
>via (CUDA and PMU) (no need if no ADB keyboard), ...
>When doing embedded systems, this drivers is very big and can be saving by
>using
>RTAS which i think is a very good thing in  CHRP specification. It's
>strange that
>apple do not provide it fully.

Well, they didn't care about it. Note that Macs are far from beeing
embedded boxes ;)

Ben.


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[FASSINO Jean-Philippe]

Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:

> >In the kernel for PPC, a lot a code is here just to do what doing RTAS :
> >pci config,
> >via (CUDA and PMU) (no need if no ADB keyboard), ...
> >When doing embedded systems, this drivers is very big and can be saving by
> >using
> >RTAS which i think is a very good thing in  CHRP specification. It's
> >strange that
> >apple do not provide it fully.
>
> Well, they didn't care about it. Note that Macs are far from beeing
> embedded boxes ;)

Yes, but i'm using embedded term for small system that doing dedicate task
and only one (for example firewall, gateway, ... in only 50-100k kernel size).

I'm actually experienced that with G4 with 4 network card.

JP


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 mailto:jeanphilippe.fassino@francetelecom.fr
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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, FASSINO Jean-Philippe wrote:
> Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> > >In the kernel for PPC, a lot a code is here just to do what doing RTAS :
> > >pci config,
> > >via (CUDA and PMU) (no need if no ADB keyboard), ...
> > >When doing embedded systems, this drivers is very big and can be saving by
> > >using
> > >RTAS which i think is a very good thing in  CHRP specification. It's
> > >strange that
> > >apple do not provide it fully.
> >
> > Well, they didn't care about it. Note that Macs are far from beeing
> > embedded boxes ;)
>
> Yes, but i'm using embedded term for small system that doing dedicate task
> and only one (for example firewall, gateway, ... in only 50-100k kernel size).
>
> I'm actually experienced that with G4 with 4 network card.

And what's the smallest amount of memory you can put in a G4? I guess it's an
order of magnitude larger than a kernel containing all possible drivers :-)

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

						Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
							    -- Linus Torvalds


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Re: RTAS on PowerMac Newworld

[FASSINO Jean-Philippe]

Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, FASSINO Jean-Philippe wrote:
> > Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> > > >In the kernel for PPC, a lot a code is here just to do what doing RTAS :
> > > >pci config,
> > > >via (CUDA and PMU) (no need if no ADB keyboard), ...
> > > >When doing embedded systems, this drivers is very big and can be saving by
> > > >using
> > > >RTAS which i think is a very good thing in  CHRP specification. It's
> > > >strange that
> > > >apple do not provide it fully.
> > >
> > > Well, they didn't care about it. Note that Macs are far from beeing
> > > embedded boxes ;)
> >
> > Yes, but i'm using embedded term for small system that doing dedicate task
> > and only one (for example firewall, gateway, ... in only 50-100k kernel size).
> >
> > I'm actually experienced that with G4 with 4 network card.
>
> And what's the smallest amount of memory you can put in a G4? I guess it's an
> order of magnitude larger than a kernel containing all possible drivers :-)

Sure, but G4 is just a good computer for experimentation !

JP


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 mailto:jeanphilippe.fassino@francetelecom.fr
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