firewire screwup

firewire screwup

[Marcus O.C. Metzler]

Hi,

I am having some trouble with firewire on my powerbook g4.
On saturday I tried the latest benh kernel and everything worked fine
until I tried to modprobe the ohci1394 module. The mchine crashed
instantly. After that the time was reset to Aug. 1933 (?? not 1970),
but everything else seemed ok.
Since I had bought a new hard drive that day, I wanted to boot from my
OS 9.1 disk to install it on the drive, but the boot process hung
after a while the progress bar just stoped moving. Ok, put back the
old drive and try to boot from that one. Same story :(.
So pop in the hardware test CD to see if something broke. Nope,
everything was fine according to the test.
But booting into open firmware showed some error mesages on the top of
the screen. Something about failed self-id test. Hmm, has to be
something about firewire. So I tried booting an old kernel where
firewire didn't work but didn't crash either. This time it crashed
instantly.
Next I booted into the firewire disk mode by holding down T after
turning on the powerbook. I connected to my desktop PC where firewire
works with kernel 2.4.6 and the powerbook got the PC to hang. After
removing the cable from the powerbook, the PC worked again and dmesg said
ohci1394_0: SelfID process finished but NodeID not valid: 0800FFC0
ohci1394_0: IntEvent: 00030000
over and over.
So my guess is that something like that also happens with OS 9.1 and
by the way OSX. Is there any way to fix this?
I tried to reset the boot parameters and the open firmware default,
but that didn't help. Is my firewire port fried? Can I disable the
port? I mainly want to install Linux on the new disk, but I don't know
if that works without a Mac partition. Having OSX for some testing
would be nice too.

Any help would be appreciated.

Marcus

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Marcus Metzler
mocm@netcologne.de                     http://www.metzlerbros.de
mocm@convergence.de                    http://www.convergence.de

Convergence Integrated Media GmbH
Rosenthaler Str. 51
D-10178 Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------


** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Timothy A. Seufert]

I think you may have corrupted nonvolatile memory.  Try doing a
complete PRAM wipe: turn the computer on while holding Cmd+Opt+P+R
and let it do several reboot / PRAM wipe cycles in a row.  Five or
six is probably enough.  (The first PRAM wipe doesn't clear
everything.  The firmware watches to see if you do several in a row
and will do successively more thorough resets on each iteration.)
--
Tim Seufert

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Marcus O.C. Metzler]

Timothy A. Seufert writes:
 >
 > I think you may have corrupted nonvolatile memory.  Try doing a
 > complete PRAM wipe: turn the computer on while holding Cmd+Opt+P+R
 > and let it do several reboot / PRAM wipe cycles in a row.  Five or
 > six is probably enough.  (The first PRAM wipe doesn't clear
 > everything.  The firmware watches to see if you do several in a row
 > and will do successively more thorough resets on each iteration.)
 > --
 > Tim Seufert
 >

I tried 6 cycles of the PRAM wipe, but still get the SELFID Timeout in
open firmware and no boot of any MacOs. I also tried disconnecting the
power and taking out the battery, still the same problem.
Maybe I should mention that I have flashed the latest firmware some
time ago, but I didn't have any problems with it, although there had
been some reports, but mainly about trouble with memory chips.

Marcus

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Marcus Metzler
mocm@netcologne.de                     http://www.metzlerbros.de
mocm@convergence.de                    http://www.convergence.de

Convergence Integrated Media GmbH
Rosenthaler Str. 51
D-10178 Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------


** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Timothy A. Seufert]

At 11:43 AM +0200 8/29/01, Marcus O.C. Metzler wrote:
>Timothy A. Seufert writes:
>  >
>  > I think you may have corrupted nonvolatile memory.  Try doing a
>  > complete PRAM wipe: turn the computer on while holding Cmd+Opt+P+R
>  > and let it do several reboot / PRAM wipe cycles in a row.  Five or
>  > six is probably enough.  (The first PRAM wipe doesn't clear
>  > everything.  The firmware watches to see if you do several in a row
>  > and will do successively more thorough resets on each iteration.)
>  > --
>  > Tim Seufert
>  >
>
>I tried 6 cycles of the PRAM wipe, but still get the SELFID Timeout in
>open firmware and no boot of any MacOs. I also tried disconnecting the
>power and taking out the battery, still the same problem.

It isn't enough to remove the main battery of a PowerBook -- all Macs
and PowerBooks have a tiny internal backup battery which keeps the
real time clock and NVRAM contents alive when the normal power
sources are not present.  You have to disconnect it if you want to
reset anything.  You also need to allow time for all capacitors to
fully discharge before the NVRAM is truly cleared (it's battery
backed SRAM, and SRAM can keep its contents alive on microamps of
current).  Overnight usually seems to be enough.

I don't know where the backup battery is located in the PB G4.  It
may not be very easy to get to.

It's probably worthwhile to try removing the backup battery -- I can
tell you that I resurrected a Blue&White G3 that would not respond to
anything else.   (I had put a value into an OF variable that caused
the system to crash before OF could even respond to Cmd-Opt-P-R.)

P.S.  I don't think your hardware is damaged -- what you did should
not have any potential to do that.
--
Tim Seufert

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Ethan Benson]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 04:38:51AM -0700, Timothy A. Seufert wrote:
>
> It isn't enough to remove the main battery of a PowerBook -- all Macs
> and PowerBooks have a tiny internal backup battery which keeps the
> real time clock and NVRAM contents alive when the normal power
> sources are not present.  You have to disconnect it if you want to
> reset anything.  You also need to allow time for all capacitors to
> fully discharge before the NVRAM is truly cleared (it's battery
> backed SRAM, and SRAM can keep its contents alive on microamps of
> current).  Overnight usually seems to be enough.

that won't even work on a NewWorld, since on newworld nvram contents
are stored in flash.

> It's probably worthwhile to try removing the backup battery -- I can
> tell you that I resurrected a Blue&White G3 that would not respond to
> anything else.   (I had put a value into an OF variable that caused
> the system to crash before OF could even respond to Cmd-Opt-P-R.)

i did something like that once as well, removing the battery did me no
good whatsoever.  only entering the backup OpenFirmware image worked
and allowed me to reset the nvram.

--
Ethan Benson
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Marcus O.C. Metzler]

Ethan Benson writes:
 >
 > i did something like that once as well, removing the battery did me no
 > good whatsoever.  only entering the backup OpenFirmware image worked
 > and allowed me to reset the nvram.
 >

So, how do I do that?

Marcus

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Marcus Metzler
mocm@netcologne.de                     http://www.metzlerbros.de
mocm@convergence.de                    http://www.convergence.de

Convergence Integrated Media GmbH
Rosenthaler Str. 51
D-10178 Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Ethan Benson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 959 bytes --]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 06:10:15PM +0200, Marcus O.C. Metzler wrote:
> 
> Ethan Benson writes:
>  >
>  > i did something like that once as well, removing the battery did me no
>  > good whatsoever.  only entering the backup OpenFirmware image worked
>  > and allowed me to reset the nvram.
>  >
> 
> So, how do I do that?

boot while holding the interupt switch, in the same manner as if you
were performing a firmware upgrade, except keep it down even after the
long tone is heard, after a certain ammount of time you can i think
press command option p r (to reset the nvram) or command option o f to
enter OF.  im not sure of the details, when i did it had a black
screen after the tone, i pressed command option p r and it immediatly
rebooted and all was fine after that.  previously no keyboard input
was accepted at all, all i had was a startup tone, black screen and
nothing.  

-- 
Ethan Benson
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 0 bytes --]

Re: firewire screwup

[Timothy A. Seufert]

At 4:16 AM -0800 8/29/01, Ethan Benson wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 04:38:51AM -0700, Timothy A. Seufert wrote:
>>
>>  It isn't enough to remove the main battery of a PowerBook -- all Macs
>>  and PowerBooks have a tiny internal backup battery which keeps the
>>  real time clock and NVRAM contents alive when the normal power
>>  sources are not present.  You have to disconnect it if you want to
>>  reset anything.  You also need to allow time for all capacitors to
>>  fully discharge before the NVRAM is truly cleared (it's battery
>>  backed SRAM, and SRAM can keep its contents alive on microamps of
>>  current).  Overnight usually seems to be enough.
>
>that won't even work on a NewWorld, since on newworld nvram contents
>are stored in flash.

Did work on a New World for me (B&W).  Maybe only core99 & later use
flash for nvram?

I'll have to ask a guy I know at Apple about this.  He works with
prototype hardware&firmware that have lots of bugs, so the various
reset procedures are permanently burned into his brain.
--
Tim Seufert

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Ethan Benson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1051 bytes --]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 01:48:51PM -0700, Timothy A. Seufert wrote:
> At 4:16 AM -0800 8/29/01, Ethan Benson wrote:
> >On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 04:38:51AM -0700, Timothy A. Seufert wrote:
> >>
> >>  It isn't enough to remove the main battery of a PowerBook -- all Macs
> >>  and PowerBooks have a tiny internal backup battery which keeps the
> >>  real time clock and NVRAM contents alive when the normal power
> >>  sources are not present.  You have to disconnect it if you want to
> >>  reset anything.  You also need to allow time for all capacitors to
> >>  fully discharge before the NVRAM is truly cleared (it's battery
> >>  backed SRAM, and SRAM can keep its contents alive on microamps of
> >>  current).  Overnight usually seems to be enough.
> >
> >that won't even work on a NewWorld, since on newworld nvram contents
> >are stored in flash.
> 
> Did work on a New World for me (B&W).  Maybe only core99 & later use 
> flash for nvram?

no my machine is a blue g3.

-- 
Ethan Benson
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 0 bytes --]

Re: firewire screwup (PB G4 reset procedure)

[Timothy A. Seufert]

My friend at Apple says to press and hold the reset button on the
back of the powerbook (behind the I/O door) for at least 60 seconds.
--
Tim Seufert

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup (PB G4 reset procedure)

[Marcus O.C. Metzler]

Timothy A. Seufert writes:
 >
 > My friend at Apple says to press and hold the reset button on the
 > back of the powerbook (behind the I/O door) for at least 60 seconds.
 > --
 > Tim Seufert
 >
 >
Nope, didn't work. Still SelfID Timeout in open firmware and no MacOs
boot. Well at least linux still works.
Is there a way to disable firewire, so that the MacOses won't probe
for it and hang?

Marcus

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Marcus Metzler
mocm@netcologne.de                     http://www.metzlerbros.de
mocm@convergence.de                    http://www.convergence.de

Convergence Integrated Media GmbH
Rosenthaler Str. 51
D-10178 Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------


** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup (PB G4 reset procedure)

[Timothy A. Seufert]

At 10:48 AM +0200 8/30/01, Marcus O.C. Metzler wrote:
>Timothy A. Seufert writes:
>  >
>  > My friend at Apple says to press and hold the reset button on the
>  > back of the powerbook (behind the I/O door) for at least 60 seconds.
>  >
>Nope, didn't work. Still SelfID Timeout in open firmware and no MacOs
>boot. Well at least linux still works.
>Is there a way to disable firewire, so that the MacOses won't probe
>for it and hang?

Possibly -- you could remove the firewire controller's node from the
OF device tree before booting MacOS, and then MacOS would be unlikely
to even know of its existence.  But I'm not nearly enough of an OF
hacker to know whether that's really possible, or how to do it.

I guess at this point damage must be considered likely.  Have you
tried using the Hardware Test CD that came with the computer?
--
Tim Seufert

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup (PB G4 reset procedure)

[Marcus O.C. Metzler]

Timothy A. Seufert writes:
 >
 > Possibly -- you could remove the firewire controller's node from the
 > OF device tree before booting MacOS, and then MacOS would be unlikely
 > to even know of its existence.  But I'm not nearly enough of an OF
 > hacker to know whether that's really possible, or how to do it.
 >
 > I guess at this point damage must be considered likely.  Have you
 > tried using the Hardware Test CD that came with the computer?

That was one of the first things I did. The test claims everything is
fine.

Marcus

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Marcus Metzler
mocm@netcologne.de                     http://www.metzlerbros.de
mocm@convergence.de                    http://www.convergence.de

Convergence Integrated Media GmbH
Rosenthaler Str. 51
D-10178 Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: firewire screwup

[Marcus O.C. Metzler]

David A. Gatwood writes:

 > instructions on the back of the unit somewhere, probably.  It's usually
 > a set of keystrokes, like fn-opt-cmd-shift-power or something.
 >
 >
On the powerbook G4 you have to use the reset button on the back, but
that didn't help :(.
It seems that it is a harware defect after all. I'll have to see how I
can get it repaired.

Marcus

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Marcus Metzler
mocm@netcologne.de                     http://www.metzlerbros.de
mocm@convergence.de                    http://www.convergence.de

Convergence Integrated Media GmbH
Rosenthaler Str. 51
D-10178 Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/