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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>
Cc: linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
	Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@de.ibm.com>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>, Eric Paris <eparis@redhat.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, Jiri Slaby <jslaby@suse.cz>,
	linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	x86@kernel.org, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, kees.cook@canonical.com,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	microblaze-uclinux@itee.uq.edu.au,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>, Michal Marek <mmarek@suse.cz>,
	Michal Simek <monstr@monstr.eu>, Will Drewry <wad@chromium.org>,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Ralf Baechle <ralf@linux-mips.org>,
	Paul Mundt <lethal@linux-sh.org>, Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
	linux390@de.ibm.com, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	agl@chromium.org, "David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/5] v2 seccomp_filters: Enable ftrace-based system call filtering
Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 14:10:34 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110513121034.GG21022@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1105131018040.3047@tundra.namei.org>


* James Morris <jmorris@namei.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 May 2011, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > Funnily enough, back then you wrote this:
> > 
> >   " I'm concerned that we're seeing yet another security scheme being designed on 
> >     the fly, without a well-formed threat model, and without taking into account 
> >     lessons learned from the seemingly endless parade of similar, failed schemes. "
> > 
> > so when and how did your opinion of this scheme turn from it being an 
> > "endless parade of failed schemes" to it being a "well-defined and readily 
> > understandable feature"? :-)
> 
> When it was defined in a way which limited its purpose to reducing the attack 
> surface of the sycall interface.

Let me outline a simple example of a new filter expression based security 
feature that could be implemented outside the narrow system call boundary you 
find acceptable, and please tell what is bad about it.

Say i'm a user-space sandbox developer who wants to enforce that sandboxed code 
should only be allowed to open files in /home/sandbox/, /lib/ and /usr/lib/.

It is a simple and sensible security feature, agreed? It allows most code to 
run well and link to countless libraries - but no access to other files is 
allowed.

I would also like my sandbox app to be able to install this policy without 
having to be root. I do not want the sandbox app to have permission to create 
labels on /lib and /usr/lib and what not.

Firstly, using the filter code i deny the various link creation syscalls so 
that sandboxed code cannot escape for example by creating a symlink to outside 
the permitted VFS namespace. (Note: we opt-in to syscalls, that way new 
syscalls added by new kernels are denied by defalt. The current symlink 
creation syscalls are not opted in to.)

But the next step, actually checking filenames, poses a big hurdle: i cannot 
implement the filename checking at the sys_open() syscall level in a secure 
way: because the pathname is passed to sys_open() by pointer, and if i check it 
at the generic sys_open() syscall level, another thread in the sandbox might 
modify the underlying filename *after* i've checked it.

But if i had a VFS event at the fs/namei.c::getname() level, i would have 
access to a central point where the VFS string becomes stable to the kernel and 
can be checked (and denied if necessary).

A sidenote, and not surprisingly, the audit subsystem already has an event 
callback there:

        audit_getname(result);

Unfortunately this audit callback cannot be used for my purposes, because the 
event is single-purpose for auditd and because it allows no feedback (no 
deny/accept discretion for the security policy).

But if had this simple event there:

	err = event_vfs_getname(result);

I could implement this new filename based sandboxing policy, using a filter 
like this installed on the vfs::getname event and inherited by all sandboxed 
tasks (which cannot uninstall the filter, obviously):

  "
	if (strstr(name, ".."))
		return -EACCESS;

	if (!strncmp(name, "/home/sandbox/", 14) &&
	    !strncmp(name, "/lib/", 5) &&
	    !strncmp(name, "/usr/lib/", 9))
		return -EACCESS;

  "

  #
  # Note1: Obviously the filter engine would be extended to allow such simple string
  #        match functions. )
  #
  # Note2: ".." is disallowed so that sandboxed code cannot escape the restrictions
  #         using "/..".
  #

This kind of flexible and dynamic sandboxing would allow a wide range of file 
ops within the sandbox, while still isolating it from files not included in the 
specified VFS namespace.

( Note that there are tons of other examples as well, for useful security features
  that are best done using events outside the syscall boundary. )

The security event filters code tied to seccomp and syscalls at the moment is 
useful, but limited in its future potential.

So i argue that it should go slightly further and should become:

 - unprivileged:  application-definable, allowing the embedding of security 
                  policy in *apps* as well, not just the system

 - flexible:      can be added/removed runtime unprivileged, and cheaply so

 - transparent:   does not impact executing code that meets the policy

 - nestable:      it is inherited by child tasks and is fundamentally stackable,
                  multiple policies will have the combined effect and they
                  are transparent to each other. So if a child task within a
                  sandbox adds *more* checks then those add to the already
                  existing set of checks. We only narrow permissions, never
                  extend them.

 - generic:       allowing observation and (safe) control of security relevant
                  parameters not just at the system call boundary but at other
                  relevant places of kernel execution as well: which 
                  points/callbacks could also be used for other types of event 
                  extraction such as perf. It could even be shared with audit ...

I argue that this is the LSM and audit subsystems designed right: in the long 
run it could allow everything that LSM does at the moment - and so much more 
...

And you argue that allowing this would be bad, if it was extended like that 
then you'd consider it a failed scheme? Why?

Thanks,

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2011-05-13 12:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1304017638.18763.205.camel@gandalf.stny.rr.com>
2011-05-12  3:02 ` [PATCH 3/5] v2 seccomp_filters: Enable ftrace-based system call filtering Will Drewry
2011-05-12  7:48   ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-12  9:24     ` Kees Cook
2011-05-12 10:49       ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-12 11:44     ` James Morris
2011-05-12 13:01       ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-12 16:26         ` Will Drewry
2011-05-16 12:55           ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-16 14:42             ` Will Drewry
2011-05-13  0:18         ` James Morris
2011-05-13 12:10           ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2011-05-13 12:19             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 12:26               ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 12:39                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 12:43                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 12:54                     ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 13:08                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 13:18                         ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 13:55                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 14:57                             ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 15:27                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-14  7:05                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-16 16:23                               ` Steven Rostedt
2011-05-16 16:52                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-16 17:03                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2011-05-17 12:42                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-17 13:05                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2011-05-17 13:19                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-19  4:07                                           ` Will Drewry
2011-05-19 12:22                                             ` Steven Rostedt
2011-05-19 21:05                                               ` Will Drewry
2011-05-24 15:59                                                 ` Will Drewry
2011-05-24 16:20                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-24 16:25                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2011-05-24 19:00                                                       ` Will Drewry
2011-05-24 19:54                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-24 20:10                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-25 10:35                                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2011-05-25 15:01                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-25 17:43                                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-29 20:17                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-25 17:48                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2011-05-26  8:43                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-26  9:15                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-24 20:08                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-24 20:14                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2011-05-13 15:17                           ` Eric Paris
2011-05-13 15:29                             ` [PATCH 3/5] v2 seccomp_filters: Enable ftrace-based system callfiltering David Laight
2011-05-16 12:03                               ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 12:49                   ` [PATCH 3/5] v2 seccomp_filters: Enable ftrace-based system call filtering Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 13:55                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 15:02                       ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-13 15:10             ` Eric Paris
2011-05-13 15:23               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-05-13 15:55                 ` Eric Paris
2011-05-13 16:29                   ` Will Drewry
2011-05-14  7:30               ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-14 20:57                 ` Will Drewry
2011-05-16 12:43                   ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-16 15:29                     ` Will Drewry
2011-05-17 12:57                       ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-16  0:36             ` James Morris
2011-05-16 15:08               ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-17  2:24                 ` James Morris
2011-05-17 13:10                   ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-17 13:29                     ` James Morris
2011-05-17 18:34                       ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-26  6:27               ` Pavel Machek
2011-05-26  8:35                 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-12 12:15     ` Frederic Weisbecker
2011-05-12 11:33   ` James Morris
2011-05-13 19:35   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-05-14 20:58     ` Will Drewry
2011-05-15  6:42       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-05-16 12:00         ` Ingo Molnar
2011-05-16 15:26   ` Steven Rostedt
2011-05-16 15:28     ` Will Drewry

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