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From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
To: Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Leonid Yegoshin <Leonid.Yegoshin@imgtec.com>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Cooper <andrew.cooper3@citrix.com>,
	Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org,
	linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-metag@vger.kernel.org, linux-mips@linux-mips.org,
	x86@kernel.org, user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	adi-buildroot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org,
	xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org,
	Ralf Baechle <ralf@linux-mips.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	ddaney.cavm@gmail.com, james.hogan@imgtec.com,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>
Subject: Re: [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:12:11 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160126061211.GK4503@linux.vnet.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160125180234.GA26732@arm.com>

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 06:02:34PM +0000, Will Deacon wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 09:39:12AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 09:55:54AM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 01:29:13PM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > So smp_mb() provides transitivity, as do pairs of smp_store_release()
> > > > and smp_read_acquire(), 
> > > 
> > > But they provide different grades of transitivity, which is where all
> > > the confusion lays.
> > > 
> > > smp_mb() is strongly/globally transitive, all CPUs will agree on the order.
> > > 
> > > Whereas the RCpc release+acquire is weakly so, only the two cpus
> > > involved in the handover will agree on the order.
> > 
> > Good point!
> > 
> > Using grace periods in place of smp_mb() also provides strong/global
> > transitivity, but also insanely high latencies.  ;-)
> > 
> > The patch below updates Documentation/memory-barriers.txt to define
> > local vs. global transitivity.  The corresponding ppcmem litmus test
> > is included below as well.
> > 
> > Should we start putting litmus tests for the various examples
> > somewhere, perhaps in a litmus-tests directory within each participating
> > architecture?  I have a pile of powerpc-related litmus tests on my laptop,
> > but they probably aren't doing all that much good there.
> 
> I too would like to have the litmus tests in the kernel so that we can
> refer to them from memory-barriers.txt. Ideally they wouldn't be targetted
> to a particular arch, however.

Agreed.  Working on it...

> > PPC local-transitive
> > ""
> > {
> > 0:r1=1; 0:r2=u; 0:r3=v; 0:r4=x; 0:r5=y; 0:r6=z;
> > 1:r1=1; 1:r2=u; 1:r3=v; 1:r4=x; 1:r5=y; 1:r6=z;
> > 2:r1=1; 2:r2=u; 2:r3=v; 2:r4=x; 2:r5=y; 2:r6=z;
> > 3:r1=1; 3:r2=u; 3:r3=v; 3:r4=x; 3:r5=y; 3:r6=z;
> > }
> >  P0           | P1           | P2           | P3           ;
> >  lwz r9,0(r4) | lwz r9,0(r5) | lwz r9,0(r6) | stw r1,0(r3) ;
> >  lwsync       | lwsync       | lwsync       | sync         ;
> >  stw r1,0(r2) | lwz r8,0(r3) | stw r1,0(r7) | lwz r9,0(r2) ;
> >  lwsync       | lwz r7,0(r2) |              |              ;
> >  stw r1,0(r5) | lwsync       |              |              ;
> >               | stw r1,0(r6) |              |              ;
> > exists
> > (* (0:r9=0 /\ 1:r9=1 /\ 2:r9=1 /\ 1:r8=0 /\ 3:r9=0) *)
> > (* (0:r9=1 /\ 1:r9=1 /\ 2:r9=1) *)
> > (* (0:r9=0 /\ 1:r9=1 /\ 2:r9=1 /\ 1:r7=0) *)
> > (0:r9=0 /\ 1:r9=1 /\ 2:r9=1 /\ 1:r7=0)
> 
> i.e. we should rewrite this using READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE and smp_mb() etc.

Yep!

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > commit 2cb4e83a1b5c89c8e39b8a64bd89269d05913e41
> > Author: Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
> > Date:   Fri Jan 15 09:30:42 2016 -0800
> > 
> >     documentation: Distinguish between local and global transitivity
> >     
> >     The introduction of smp_load_acquire() and smp_store_release() had
> >     the side effect of introducing a weaker notion of transitivity:
> >     The transitivity of full smp_mb() barriers is global, but that
> >     of smp_store_release()/smp_load_acquire() chains is local.  This
> >     commit therefore introduces the notion of local transitivity and
> >     gives an example.
> >     
> >     Reported-by: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
> >     Reported-by: Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>
> >     Signed-off-by: Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
> > 
> > diff --git a/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt b/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt
> > index c66ba46d8079..d8109ed99342 100644
> > --- a/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt
> > +++ b/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt
> > @@ -1318,8 +1318,82 @@ or a level of cache, CPU 2 might have early access to CPU 1's writes.
> >  General barriers are therefore required to ensure that all CPUs agree
> >  on the combined order of CPU 1's and CPU 2's accesses.
> >  
> > -To reiterate, if your code requires transitivity, use general barriers
> > -throughout.
> > +General barriers provide "global transitivity", so that all CPUs will
> > +agree on the order of operations.  In contrast, a chain of release-acquire
> > +pairs provides only "local transitivity", so that only those CPUs on
> > +the chain are guaranteed to agree on the combined order of the accesses.
> 
> Thanks for having a go at this. I tried defining something axiomatically,
> but got stuck pretty quickly. In my scheme, I used "data-directed
> transitivity" instead of "local transitivity", since the latter seems to
> be a bit of a misnomer.

I figured that "local" meant local to the CPUs participating in the
release-acquire chain.  As opposed to smp_mb() chains where the ordering
is "global" as in visible to all CPUs, whether on the chain or not.
Does that help?

> > +For example, switching to C code in deference to Herman Hollerith:
> > +
> > +	int u, v, x, y, z;
> > +
> > +	void cpu0(void)
> > +	{
> > +		r0 = smp_load_acquire(&x);
> > +		WRITE_ONCE(u, 1);
> > +		smp_store_release(&y, 1);
> > +	}
> > +
> > +	void cpu1(void)
> > +	{
> > +		r1 = smp_load_acquire(&y);
> > +		r4 = READ_ONCE(v);
> > +		r5 = READ_ONCE(u);
> > +		smp_store_release(&z, 1);
> > +	}
> > +
> > +	void cpu2(void)
> > +	{
> > +		r2 = smp_load_acquire(&z);
> > +		smp_store_release(&x, 1);
> > +	}
> > +
> > +	void cpu3(void)
> > +	{
> > +		WRITE_ONCE(v, 1);
> > +		smp_mb();
> > +		r3 = READ_ONCE(u);
> > +	}
> > +
> > +Because cpu0(), cpu1(), and cpu2() participate in a local transitive
> > +chain of smp_store_release()/smp_load_acquire() pairs, the following
> > +outcome is prohibited:
> > +
> > +	r0 == 1 && r1 == 1 && r2 == 1
> > +
> > +Furthermore, because of the release-acquire relationship between cpu0()
> > +and cpu1(), cpu1() must see cpu0()'s writes, so that the following
> > +outcome is prohibited:
> > +
> > +	r1 == 1 && r5 == 0
> > +
> > +However, the transitivity of release-acquire is local to the participating
> > +CPUs and does not apply to cpu3().  Therefore, the following outcome
> > +is possible:
> > +
> > +	r0 == 0 && r1 == 1 && r2 == 1 && r3 == 0 && r4 == 0
> 
> I think you should be completely explicit and include r5 == 1 here, too.

Good point -- I added this as an additional outcome:

	r0 == 0 && r1 == 1 && r2 == 1 && r3 == 0 && r4 == 0 && r5 == 1

> Also -- where would you add the smp_mb__after_release_acquire to fix
> (i.e. forbid) this? Immediately after cpu1()'s read of y?

That sounds plausible, but we would first have to agree on exactly
what smp_mb__after_release_acquire() did.  ;-)

> > +Although cpu0(), cpu1(), and cpu2() will see their respective reads and
> > +writes in order, CPUs not involved in the release-acquire chain might
> > +well disagree on the order.  This disagreement stems from the fact that
> > +the weak memory-barrier instructions used to implement smp_load_acquire()
> > +and smp_store_release() are not required to order prior stores against
> > +subsequent loads in all cases.  This means that cpu3() can see cpu0()'s
> > +store to u as happening -after- cpu1()'s load from v, even though
> > +both cpu0() and cpu1() agree that these two operations occurred in the
> > +intended order.
> > +
> > +However, please keep in mind that smp_load_acquire() is not magic.
> > +In particular, it simply reads from its argument with ordering.  It does
> > +-not- ensure that any particular value will be read.  Therefore, the
> > +following outcome is possible:
> > +
> > +	r0 == 0 && r1 == 0 && r2 == 0 && r5 == 0
> > +
> > +Note that this outcome can happen even on a mythical sequentially
> > +consistent system where nothing is ever reordered.
> 
> I'm not sure this last bit is strictly necessary. If somebody thinks that
> acquire/release involve some sort of implicit synchronisation, I think
> they may have bigger problems with memory-barriers.txt.

Agreed.  But unless I add text like this occasionally, such people could
easily read through much of memory-barriers.txt and think that they did
in fact understand it.  So I have to occasionally trip an assertion in
their brain.  Or try to...  :-/

							Thanx, Paul

  reply	other threads:[~2016-01-26  6:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 155+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-01-10 14:16 [PATCH v3 00/41] arch: barrier cleanup + barriers for virt Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:16 ` [PATCH v3 01/41] lcoking/barriers, arch: Use smp barriers in smp_store_release() Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12 16:28   ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-12 18:40     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:16 ` [PATCH v3 02/41] asm-generic: guard smp_store_release/load_acquire Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:16 ` [PATCH v3 03/41] ia64: rename nop->iosapic_nop Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 04/41] ia64: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 05/41] powerpc: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12 16:31   ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 06/41] s390: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 07/41] sparc: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 08/41] arm: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 09/41] arm64: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:17 ` [PATCH v3 10/41] metag: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 11/41] mips: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12  1:14   ` [v3,11/41] " Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-12  8:43     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12  9:51       ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-12  9:27     ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-12 10:25       ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-12 10:40         ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-12 11:41           ` Will Deacon
2016-01-12 20:45             ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-12 21:40               ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-13  0:21                 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-13 10:45               ` Will Deacon
2016-01-13 19:02                 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-13 20:48                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-13 20:58                     ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 12:04                       ` Will Deacon
2016-01-14 16:16                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 19:42                           ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 20:15                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-14 20:36                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 20:46                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-14 20:46                               ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 21:34                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 21:45                                   ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 22:24                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 23:04                                       ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 20:12                         ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 20:48                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 21:24                             ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 22:20                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-15  9:57                                 ` Will Deacon
2016-01-15 18:54                                   ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-26 10:24                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-26 10:32                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-26 11:09                                     ` Will Deacon
2016-01-26 20:11                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27  8:35                                         ` [PATCH] documentation: Add disclaimer Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-27 10:11                                           ` Will Deacon
2016-04-14 21:40                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27 14:57                                         ` David Howells
2016-01-27 23:35                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-28 20:02                                           ` David Howells
2016-04-14 21:40                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-26 19:44                                   ` [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-18  8:19                             ` Herbert Xu
2016-01-18 15:46                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-26 16:52                                 ` Boqun Feng
2016-01-26 17:22                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-26 19:44                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-01-26 20:10                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-26 22:15                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-01-26 22:33                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-01-26 23:29                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-26 23:45                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-01-27  0:57                                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27  2:04                                               ` Boqun Feng
2016-01-27 23:30                                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27  7:51                                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-27  8:05                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-01-26 19:51                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-13 22:26                 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14  9:24                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-14 12:14                   ` Will Deacon
2016-01-14 19:28                     ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 20:34                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 21:01                         ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 21:29                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 21:36                             ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-14 22:55                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-14 23:33                                 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-15  0:47                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-15  1:07                                     ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-27 11:26                                       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2016-01-28  0:48                                         ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-29 13:38                                           ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2016-01-28  0:58                                         ` Leonid Yegoshin
2016-01-27 10:40                                     ` Ralf Baechle
2016-01-27 12:09                                       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2016-01-15 10:24                                 ` Will Deacon
2016-01-15 17:54                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-15 19:28                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-25 14:41                                       ` Will Deacon
2016-01-26  1:06                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-26 12:10                                           ` Will Deacon
2016-01-26 23:37                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27 10:23                                               ` Will Deacon
2016-01-15  8:55                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-15  9:13                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-15 17:46                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-15 21:27                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-15 21:58                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-25 16:42                                       ` Will Deacon
2016-01-26  6:03                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-26 10:19                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-26 20:13                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27  8:39                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-26 12:16                                           ` Will Deacon
2016-01-26 14:35                                             ` Boqun Feng
2016-01-26 19:58                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-27 10:25                                               ` Will Deacon
2016-01-27 23:32                                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-15 17:39                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-15 21:29                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-15 22:01                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2016-01-25 18:02                                 ` Will Deacon
2016-01-26  6:12                                   ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2016-01-26 10:15                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 12/41] x86/um: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 13/41] x86: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12 14:10   ` Thomas Gleixner
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 14/41] asm-generic: add __smp_xxx wrappers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 15/41] powerpc: define __smp_xxx Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 16/41] arm64: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:18 ` [PATCH v3 17/41] arm: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 18/41] blackfin: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 19/41] ia64: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 20/41] metag: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 21/41] mips: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 22/41] s390: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 23/41] sh: define __smp_xxx, fix smp_store_mb for !SMP Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:19 ` [PATCH v3 24/41] sparc: define __smp_xxx Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 25/41] tile: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 26/41] xtensa: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 27/41] x86: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12 14:11   ` Thomas Gleixner
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 28/41] asm-generic: implement virt_xxx memory barriers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 29/41] Revert "virtio_ring: Update weak barriers to use dma_wmb/rmb" Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 30/41] virtio_ring: update weak barriers to use virt_xxx Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 31/41] sh: support 1 and 2 byte xchg Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:20 ` [PATCH v3 32/41] sh: move xchg_cmpxchg to a header by itself Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 33/41] virtio_ring: use virt_store_mb Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 34/41] checkpatch.pl: add missing memory barriers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 35/41] checkpatch: check for __smp outside barrier.h Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 36/41] checkpatch: add virt barriers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 37/41] xenbus: use virt_xxx barriers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 38/41] xen/io: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:21 ` [PATCH v3 39/41] xen/events: " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-11 11:12   ` David Vrabel
2016-01-10 14:22 ` [PATCH v3 40/41] s390: use generic memory barriers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-10 14:22 ` [PATCH v3 41/41] s390: more efficient smp barriers Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-01-12 12:50 ` [PATCH v3 00/41] arch: barrier cleanup + barriers for virt Peter Zijlstra

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