Re: Lombard hard freeze

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Gabriel Ricard]

I've had some similar problems, sometimes it bombs
compiling the kernel, sometimes it locks up for no
apparent reason while it's running the screen saver
and hasn't been in use for a while. I haven't a clue
what is going on...

--- Bernhard Reiter <bernhard@intevation.de> wrote:
> Hello Linuxppc developers,
>
> I encounter hard freezes with my lombard G3/400
> Powerbook.
> Though I cannot completely rule out hardware
> problems, it might
> be the software. The system never stopped running in
> MacOS 8.6
> I tried the TechTool Deluxe tests and the Gauge Pro
> Ram Check
> under MacOS without revealing any problems.
>
> The freezes occurr randomly when heavy compiling is
> done.
> (Like I cannot compile gnomehack 1.0.5 three times,
> it usually
> happens in the second compile attempt.) If you want
> to try
> ftp://intevation.de/users/bernhard has the .src.rpm
> right now.
>
> It does not matter if it is cold or warm, X11
> running or pmud running.
> I tested Kernel versions 2.2.14 2.2.15-pre3
> 2.2.15-pre19
> together with the LinuxPPC 2000 install and the
> upgraded LinuxPPC 1999
> install (on two different partitions).
> I upgraded glibc, binutils and gcc.
>
> This powerbook has a 10 GB harddisc and 192 Mb ram,
> so it does not even
> swap for this compile.
>
> Another little detail hints towards a software
> problem:
> Even if I give the computer breaks after, let's say
> the first
> gnomehack compile, it chances to run through the
> next one is not higher.
> It looks like disorder somewhere in the kernel piles
> up, still it is
> a matter of time to lock up the machine.
>
> I would be glad if someone could help me to track
> the problem
> down further. I was told that this is the right
> place to ask.
>
> Regards,
> 	Bernhard
> ps.: Please carbon copy relevant replies to me.
>
> --
> Professional Service around Free Software
>     (intevation.net)
> The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
> Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure
>           (ffii.org)
>

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature


=====
Gabriel Ricard
g_ricard@yahoo.com


** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

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On Mon, Apr 24, 2000 at 09:13:11AM -0700, Gabriel Ricard wrote:
> I've had some similar problems, sometimes it bombs
> compiling the kernel, sometimes it locks up for no
> apparent reason while it's running the screen saver
> and hasn't been in use for a while. I haven't a clue
> what is going on...

Sound like exactly like the symtoms of my problem.
	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

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Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Mario Scarpa]

Bernhard Reiter wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2000 at 09:13:11AM -0700, Gabriel Ricard wrote:
> > I've had some similar problems, sometimes it bombs
> > compiling the kernel, sometimes it locks up for no
> > apparent reason while it's running the screen saver
> > and hasn't been in use for a while. I haven't a clue
> > what is going on...
>
> Sound like exactly like the symtoms of my problem.
>         Bernhard

Same here. I would say that it all started when I bought
my USB mouse and started using the USB bus: before I was
using the trackpad and do not remember about similar locks.
Just a hint.

--
Mario Scarpa

Mondonet NOC
Phone: +39 06 52.47.37.02

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

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On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 02:10:08PM +0200, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, Apr 24, 2000 at 09:13:11AM -0700, Gabriel Ricard wrote:
> > > I've had some similar problems, sometimes it bombs
> > > compiling the kernel, sometimes it locks up for no
> > > apparent reason while it's running the screen saver
> > > and hasn't been in use for a while. I haven't a clue
> > > what is going on...
> > 
> > Sound like exactly like the symtoms of my problem.
> >         Bernhard
> 
> Same here. I would say that it all started when I bought
> my USB mouse and started using the USB bus: before I was
> using the trackpad and do not remember about similar locks.
> Just a hint.

So do you think, just not pluggin in the usb mouse might help?
This should be easy to test. Or do I need a kernel without usb support?

	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

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Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Mario Scarpa]

Bernhard Reiter wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 02:10:08PM +0200, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> > Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2000 at 09:13:11AM -0700, Gabriel Ricard wrote:
> > > > I've had some similar problems, sometimes it bombs
> > > > compiling the kernel, sometimes it locks up for no
> > > > apparent reason while it's running the screen saver
> > > > and hasn't been in use for a while. I haven't a clue
> > > > what is going on...
> > >
> > > Sound like exactly like the symtoms of my problem.
> > >         Bernhard
> >
> > Same here. I would say that it all started when I bought
> > my USB mouse and started using the USB bus: before I was
> > using the trackpad and do not remember about similar locks.
> > Just a hint.
>
> So do you think, just not pluggin in the usb mouse might help?
> This should be easy to test. Or do I need a kernel without usb support?

When I was not using my USB mouse I neither had the support
into the kernel; if it's not a great deal to you we can try
not to use (and not to enable) USB for a while and see what
happens. Due to the type of crash (total hang) it's quite
difficult to me to find out what's wrong so having a hint about
the possible cause could tighten the search a lot.


--
Mario Scarpa

Mondonet NOC
Phone: +39 06 52.47.37.02

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

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On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 02:51:11PM +0200, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> Bernhard Reiter wrote:

> > So do you think, just not pluggin in the usb mouse might help?
> > This should be easy to test. Or do I need a kernel without usb support?
> 
> When I was not using my USB mouse I neither had the support
> into the kernel; if it's not a great deal to you we can try
> not to use (and not to enable) USB for a while and see what
> happens. Due to the type of crash (total hang) it's quite
> difficult to me to find out what's wrong so having a hint about
> the possible cause could tighten the search a lot.

The error still comes when I boot up without any mouse plugged in.

Next I will disable USB support in the kernel an build a fresh one.
(Any hint on how to do this systematically, 
I am not very experienced with configuring kernels.)

	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

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Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

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On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 02:51:11PM +0200, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> > > Same here. I would say that it all started when I bought
> > > my USB mouse and started using the USB bus: before I was
> > > using the trackpad and do not remember about similar locks.
> > > Just a hint.
> > 
> > So do you think, just not pluggin in the usb mouse might help?
> > This should be easy to test. Or do I need a kernel without usb support?
> 
> When I was not using my USB mouse I neither had the support
> into the kernel; if it's not a great deal to you we can try
> not to use (and not to enable) USB for a while and see what
> happens. Due to the type of crash (total hang) it's quite
> difficult to me to find out what's wrong so having a hint about
> the possible cause could tighten the search a lot.

Compiled kernel 2.2.15pre19 without usb support.
According to my first tests the system is more stable now.
I have not encountered a hard freeze yet, though running compiles which
usually trigger one for certain.

Test are continuing, though.

The first diagostic of the problem is, that it is a usb problem.
Even when no usb device is used. So who is the person we have to
report this bug to? Or is everybody relevant reading this list anyhow?
:-)
	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

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Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Mario Scarpa]

> The first diagostic of the problem is, that it is a usb problem.

I would say the _very first_ ;-)
I noticed another interesting thing: the freeze almost always
happened whit heavy network activity. All the tries to reproduce
the problem failed for now (as usual, when you dload something
not useful ;)). Will keep on trying.

Mario.

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:38:23AM -0100, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> > The first diagostic of the problem is, that it is a usb problem.
>
> I would say the _very first_ ;-)

Hey, I am glad I got that figured out so far.
It is a big step in tracking down the problem.  ;->

> I noticed another interesting thing: the freeze almost always
> happened whit heavy network activity. All the tries to reproduce
> the problem failed for now (as usual, when you dload something
> not useful ;)). Will keep on trying.

I can say for sure that I had no network activity, though I
I was plugged in the ethernet. (If I remember correctly I
had the freezes even when not being physically connected.)

The best way for me to reproduce the problem is to
try to compile the gnomehack-1.0.5.src.rpm a couple of times.
Usually it bombs in the second attempt. Or in the first one.

	Bernhard
--
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:38:23AM -0100, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> > The first diagostic of the problem is, that it is a usb problem.
>
> I would say the _very first_ ;-)

Yes, unfortunatly it froze again even running the kernel withou usb.
All in all the bug seems to be harder to recreate today then
yesterday. (Maybe it is date related.)

> I noticed another interesting thing: the freeze almost always
> happened whit heavy network activity. All the tries to reproduce
> the problem failed for now (as usual, when you dload something
> not useful ;)). Will keep on trying.

This is not good. Is there somebody out there, who could
use an external debugger to find out, what is going on?
I do not know enough about hardware related issues here.

	Bernhard
--
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Mario Scarpa]

Bernhard Reiter wrote:
>
> Yes, unfortunatly it froze again even running the kernel withou usb.
> All in all the bug seems to be harder to recreate today then
> yesterday. (Maybe it is date related.)

Ah. This changes the things...
The only thing that comes to my mind is now the serial driver...
It's possible that the way it interacts with the USB code triggers
the problem better than something else: I should take a look to the code
but the fact that the serial driver sometimes gives problems
is a fact (btw, never experienced crashes during the boot when
the system initializes the serial ports ?)

Mario.

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Re: Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

On Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 08:20:25AM -0100, Mario Scarpa wrote:
> Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> >
> > Yes, unfortunatly it froze again even running the kernel withou usb.
> > All in all the bug seems to be harder to recreate today then
> > yesterday. (Maybe it is date related.)
>
> Ah. This changes the things...
> The only thing that comes to my mind is now the serial driver...
> It's possible that the way it interacts with the USB code triggers
> the problem better than something else: I should take a look to the code
> but the fact that the serial driver sometimes gives problems
> is a fact (btw, never experienced crashes during the boot when
> the system initializes the serial ports ?)

I do not remember crashes during the boot in the serial driver.

The strange thing is, that the bug was harder to recreate as usual
even with usb driver in the kernel yesterday.
Today it seems a bit easier.

If it is the serial port, maybe I should try to disable it in the
kernel.
	Bernhard

--
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/

Lombard hard freeze

[Bernhard Reiter]

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Hello Linuxppc developers,

I encounter hard freezes with my lombard G3/400 Powerbook.
Though I cannot completely rule out hardware problems, it might
be the software. The system never stopped running in MacOS 8.6
I tried the TechTool Deluxe tests and the Gauge Pro Ram Check
under MacOS without revealing any problems.

The freezes occurr randomly when heavy compiling is done.
(Like I cannot compile gnomehack 1.0.5 three times, it usually
happens in the second compile attempt.) If you want to try
ftp://intevation.de/users/bernhard has the .src.rpm right now.

It does not matter if it is cold or warm, X11 running or pmud running.
I tested Kernel versions 2.2.14 2.2.15-pre3 2.2.15-pre19
together with the LinuxPPC 2000 install and the upgraded LinuxPPC 1999
install (on two different partitions).
I upgraded glibc, binutils and gcc.

This powerbook has a 10 GB harddisc and 192 Mb ram, so it does not even
swap for this compile.

Another little detail hints towards a software problem:
Even if I give the computer breaks after, let's say the first
gnomehack compile, it chances to run through the next one is not higher.
It looks like disorder somewhere in the kernel piles up, still it is
a matter of time to lock up the machine.

I would be glad if someone could help me to track the problem
down further. I was told that this is the right place to ask.

Regards,
	Bernhard
ps.: Please carbon copy relevant replies to me.

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project				            (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)

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