* Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? @ 2006-07-26 22:27 Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 0:04 ` Kumar Gala 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Patrick J. Kelsey @ 2006-07-26 22:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linuxppc-dev SGksDQogDQpJZiBoYXZlIHVzZXItbW9kZSBiaW5hcmllcyBidWlsdCBmb3IgYSA3NTAgY29yZSwg c2F5IHdpdGggZ2NjIC1tY3B1PTc1MCwgc2hvdWxkIEkgZXhwZWN0IHRoZW0gdG8gcnVuIG9uIGEg NjAzZSBjb3JlPyAgV291bGQgSSBoYXZlIHRvIHdvcnJ5IGFib3V0IHVuc3VwcG9ydGVkIGluc3Ry dWN0aW9ucyBvciBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiBzY2hlZHVsaW5nIGlzc3Vlcz8NCiANCklmIHRoZXJlJ3Mg YSBiZXR0ZXIgbGlzdCBmb3IgdGhpcyBxdWVzdGlvbiwgcGxlYXNlIGFkdmlzZS4NCiANClRoYW5r cywNClBhdA0K ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-26 22:27 Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? Patrick J. Kelsey @ 2006-07-27 0:04 ` Kumar Gala 2006-07-27 2:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 3:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Kumar Gala @ 2006-07-27 0:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Patrick J. Kelsey; +Cc: linuxppc-dev On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Patrick J. Kelsey wrote: > Hi, > > If have user-mode binaries built for a 750 core, say with gcc - > mcpu=750, should I expect them to run on a 603e core? Would I have > to worry about unsupported instructions or instruction scheduling > issues? > > If there's a better list for this question, please advise. Sure, there isn't different in the user space instruction sets between the 750 and 603e core. The -mcpu is only tweaking instruction scheduling and making it specific for the 750. The instruction scheduling differences aren't that huge if memory serves me correctly. The 750 probably takes fewer cycles on multiple and divides. I forget if the 750 has any additional execution units that the 603e didn't have (additional integer units, etc.). - kumar ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* RE: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 0:04 ` Kumar Gala @ 2006-07-27 2:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 3:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Patrick J. Kelsey @ 2006-07-27 2:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linuxppc-dev IA0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogbGludXhwcGMtZGV2LWJv dW5jZXMra2Vsc2V5cGo9ZmFpcm1vdW50YXV0b21hdGlvbi5jb21Ab3psYWJzLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhh bGYgb2YgS3VtYXIgR2FsYSANCglTZW50OiBXZWQgNy8yNi8yMDA2IDg6MDQgUE0gDQoJVG86IFBh dHJpY2sgSi4gS2Vsc2V5IA0KCUNjOiBsaW51eHBwYy1kZXZAb3psYWJzLm9yZyANCglTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZTogQ2FuIDc1MCB1c2VyLW1vZGUgYmluYXJpZXMgcnVuIG9uIGEgNjAzZSBjb3JlPw0KCQ0K CQ0KDQoNCglPbiBKdWwgMjYsIDIwMDYsIGF0IDU6MjcgUE0sIFBhdHJpY2sgSi4gS2Vsc2V5IHdy b3RlOg0KCQ0KCT4gSGksDQoJPg0KCT4gSWYgaGF2ZSB1c2VyLW1vZGUgYmluYXJpZXMgYnVpbHQg Zm9yIGEgNzUwIGNvcmUsIHNheSB3aXRoIGdjYyAtDQoJPiBtY3B1PTc1MCwgc2hvdWxkIEkgZXhw ZWN0IHRoZW0gdG8gcnVuIG9uIGEgNjAzZSBjb3JlPyAgV291bGQgSSBoYXZlIA0KCT4gdG8gd29y cnkgYWJvdXQgdW5zdXBwb3J0ZWQgaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb25zIG9yIGluc3RydWN0aW9uIHNjaGVkdWxp bmcgDQoJPiBpc3N1ZXM/DQoJPg0KCT4gSWYgdGhlcmUncyBhIGJldHRlciBsaXN0IGZvciB0aGlz IHF1ZXN0aW9uLCBwbGVhc2UgYWR2aXNlLg0KCQ0KCVN1cmUsIHRoZXJlIGlzbid0IGRpZmZlcmVu dCBpbiB0aGUgdXNlciBzcGFjZSBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiBzZXRzIA0KCWJldHdlZW4gdGhlIDc1MCBh bmQgNjAzZSBjb3JlLiAgVGhlIC1tY3B1IGlzIG9ubHkgdHdlYWtpbmcgDQoJaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb24g c2NoZWR1bGluZyBhbmQgbWFraW5nIGl0IHNwZWNpZmljIGZvciB0aGUgNzUwLiAgVGhlIA0KCWlu c3RydWN0aW9uIHNjaGVkdWxpbmcgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMgYXJlbid0IHRoYXQgaHVnZSBpZiBtZW1v cnkgc2VydmVzIA0KCW1lIGNvcnJlY3RseS4gIFRoZSA3NTAgcHJvYmFibHkgdGFrZXMgZmV3ZXIg Y3ljbGVzIG9uIG11bHRpcGxlIGFuZCANCglkaXZpZGVzLiAgSSBmb3JnZXQgaWYgdGhlIDc1MCBo YXMgYW55IGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgZXhlY3V0aW9uIHVuaXRzIHRoYXQgDQoJdGhlIDYwM2UgZGlkbid0 IGhhdmUgKGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgaW50ZWdlciB1bml0cywgZXRjLikuDQoJDQoJLSBrdW1hcg0KCV9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoJTGludXhwcGMt ZGV2IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KCUxpbnV4cHBjLWRldkBvemxhYnMub3JnDQoJaHR0cHM6Ly9vemxh YnMub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbGludXhwcGMtZGV2DQoJDQoNCg== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* RE: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 0:04 ` Kumar Gala 2006-07-27 2:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey @ 2006-07-27 3:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 11:27 ` Matt Sealey 2006-07-27 12:36 ` Jerry Van Baren 1 sibling, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Patrick J. Kelsey @ 2006-07-27 3:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linuxppc-dev KHNvcnJ5IGFib3V0IHRoYXQgbGFzdCBvbmUuIGhhZCBhIGJpdCBvZiB0cm91YmxlIHdpdGggYSBj ZXJ0YWluIHdlYiBiYXNlZCBtYWlsIGNsaWVudC4uLikgDQogDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSByZXBs eSwgS3VtYXIuDQogDQpUaGF0IHNvdW5kcyBlbmNvdXJhZ2luZy4gIE9uZSBvZiB0aGUgdGhpbmdz IEkgd2FzIHdvcnJpZWQgYWJvdXQgd2l0aCBzY2hlZHVsaW5nIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIHdvdWxkIGJl IGEgZGlmZmVyaW5nIG51bWJlciBvZiBicmFuY2ggZGVsYXkgc2xvdHMgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgdHdv IGNvcmUgdmVyc2lvbnMuICBJJ20gc3RpbGwgYSBiaXQgbmV3IHRvIHRoZSBkZXRhaWxzIG9mIHRo ZSBQb3dlclBDIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSwgYW5kIGF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQgSSdtIG5vdCBldmVuIHN1 cmUgaWYgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGJyYW5jaCBkZWxheSBzbG90cywgYWx0aG91Z2ggaXQgZG9lcyBzZWVt IGZyb20gbXkgcmVhZGluZyB0aGF0IHRoZSA2MDNlIGFuZCA3NTAgcGlwZWxpbmVzIGFyZSB0aGUg c2FtZSwgaW4gd2hpY2ggY2FzZSB0aGVyZSB3b3VsZCBjZXJhdGlubHkgYmUgbm8gd29ycmllcyBo ZXJlLg0KIA0KQXQgdGhpcyBwb2ludCwgSSdtIG5vdCBjb25jZXJuZWQgc28gbXVjaCBhYm91dCBh biBpbmVmZmljaWVudCBzY2hlZHVsZSByZXN1bHRpbmcgZnJvbSBydW5uaW5nIC1tY3B1PTc1MCBj b2RlIG9uIGEgNjAzZSBhcyBsb25nIGFzIHRoZSBleGVjdXRpb24gaXMgY29ycmVjdC4NCiANClBh dA0KIA0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogbGludXhwcGMtZGV2 LWJvdW5jZXMra2Vsc2V5cGo9ZmFpcm1vdW50YXV0b21hdGlvbi5jb21Ab3psYWJzLm9yZyBvbiBi ZWhhbGYgb2YgS3VtYXIgR2FsYSANCglTZW50OiBXZWQgNy8yNi8yMDA2IDg6MDQgUE0gDQoJVG86 IFBhdHJpY2sgSi4gS2Vsc2V5IA0KCUNjOiBsaW51eHBwYy1kZXZAb3psYWJzLm9yZyANCglTdWJq ZWN0OiBSZTogQ2FuIDc1MCB1c2VyLW1vZGUgYmluYXJpZXMgcnVuIG9uIGEgNjAzZSBjb3JlPw0K CQ0KCQ0KDQoNCglPbiBKdWwgMjYsIDIwMDYsIGF0IDU6MjcgUE0sIFBhdHJpY2sgSi4gS2Vsc2V5 IHdyb3RlOg0KCQ0KCT4gSGksDQoJPg0KCT4gSWYgaGF2ZSB1c2VyLW1vZGUgYmluYXJpZXMgYnVp bHQgZm9yIGEgNzUwIGNvcmUsIHNheSB3aXRoIGdjYyAtDQoJPiBtY3B1PTc1MCwgc2hvdWxkIEkg ZXhwZWN0IHRoZW0gdG8gcnVuIG9uIGEgNjAzZSBjb3JlPyAgV291bGQgSSBoYXZlIA0KCT4gdG8g d29ycnkgYWJvdXQgdW5zdXBwb3J0ZWQgaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb25zIG9yIGluc3RydWN0aW9uIHNjaGVk dWxpbmcgDQoJPiBpc3N1ZXM/DQoJPg0KCT4gSWYgdGhlcmUncyBhIGJldHRlciBsaXN0IGZvciB0 aGlzIHF1ZXN0aW9uLCBwbGVhc2UgYWR2aXNlLg0KCQ0KCVN1cmUsIHRoZXJlIGlzbid0IGRpZmZl cmVudCBpbiB0aGUgdXNlciBzcGFjZSBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiBzZXRzIA0KCWJldHdlZW4gdGhlIDc1 MCBhbmQgNjAzZSBjb3JlLiAgVGhlIC1tY3B1IGlzIG9ubHkgdHdlYWtpbmcgDQoJaW5zdHJ1Y3Rp b24gc2NoZWR1bGluZyBhbmQgbWFraW5nIGl0IHNwZWNpZmljIGZvciB0aGUgNzUwLiAgVGhlIA0K CWluc3RydWN0aW9uIHNjaGVkdWxpbmcgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMgYXJlbid0IHRoYXQgaHVnZSBpZiBt ZW1vcnkgc2VydmVzIA0KCW1lIGNvcnJlY3RseS4gIFRoZSA3NTAgcHJvYmFibHkgdGFrZXMgZmV3 ZXIgY3ljbGVzIG9uIG11bHRpcGxlIGFuZCANCglkaXZpZGVzLiAgSSBmb3JnZXQgaWYgdGhlIDc1 MCBoYXMgYW55IGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgZXhlY3V0aW9uIHVuaXRzIHRoYXQgDQoJdGhlIDYwM2UgZGlk bid0IGhhdmUgKGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgaW50ZWdlciB1bml0cywgZXRjLikuDQoJDQoJLSBrdW1hcg0K CV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoJTGludXhw cGMtZGV2IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KCUxpbnV4cHBjLWRldkBvemxhYnMub3JnDQoJaHR0cHM6Ly9v emxhYnMub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbGludXhwcGMtZGV2DQoJDQoNCg== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* RE: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 3:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey @ 2006-07-27 11:27 ` Matt Sealey 2006-07-27 12:18 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 12:36 ` Jerry Van Baren 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Matt Sealey @ 2006-07-27 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Patrick J. Kelsey', linuxppc-dev The 603/603e has 1 integer unit. The 604/604e and 7xx lines had 2. Basically if you optimize for the 750 it may queue up integer ops assuming there is room to execute them simultaneously, when in fact there isn't. But as kumar said, userspace is absolutely positively identical, the chips from 603e to the latest G4 are entirely binary compatible for integer and FPU code. Most people just optimize for the 603e and let the CPU handle the rest. -- Matt Sealey <matt@genesi-usa.com> Manager, Genesi, Developer Relations > -----Original Message----- > From: linuxppc-dev-bounces+matt=genesi-usa.com@ozlabs.org > [mailto:linuxppc-dev-bounces+matt=genesi-usa.com@ozlabs.org] > On Behalf Of Patrick J. Kelsey > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 5:54 AM > To: linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org > Subject: RE: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? > > (sorry about that last one. had a bit of trouble with a > certain web based mail client...) > > Thanks for the reply, Kumar. > > That sounds encouraging. One of the things I was worried > about with scheduling differences would be a differing number > of branch delay slots between the two core versions. I'm > still a bit new to the details of the PowerPC architecture, > and at this point I'm not even sure if there are branch delay > slots, although it does seem from my reading that the 603e > and 750 pipelines are the same, in which case there would > ceratinly be no worries here. > > At this point, I'm not concerned so much about an inefficient > schedule resulting from running -mcpu=750 code on a 603e as > long as the execution is correct. > > Pat > > > -----Original Message----- > From: > linuxppc-dev-bounces+kelseypj=fairmountautomation.com@ozlabs.o > rg on behalf of Kumar Gala > Sent: Wed 7/26/2006 8:04 PM > To: Patrick J. Kelsey > Cc: linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org > Subject: Re: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? > > > > > On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Patrick J. Kelsey wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > If have user-mode binaries built for a 750 core, say > with gcc - > > mcpu=750, should I expect them to run on a 603e core? > Would I have > > to worry about unsupported instructions or > instruction scheduling > > issues? > > > > If there's a better list for this question, please advise. > > Sure, there isn't different in the user space instruction sets > between the 750 and 603e core. The -mcpu is only tweaking > instruction scheduling and making it specific for the 750. The > instruction scheduling differences aren't that huge if > memory serves > me correctly. The 750 probably takes fewer cycles on > multiple and > divides. I forget if the 750 has any additional > execution units that > the 603e didn't have (additional integer units, etc.). > > - kumar > _______________________________________________ > Linuxppc-dev mailing list > Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org > https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Linuxppc-dev mailing list > Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org > https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* RE: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 11:27 ` Matt Sealey @ 2006-07-27 12:18 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Patrick J. 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* Re: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 3:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 11:27 ` Matt Sealey @ 2006-07-27 12:36 ` Jerry Van Baren 2006-07-27 15:30 ` Andy Fleming 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Jerry Van Baren @ 2006-07-27 12:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Patrick J. Kelsey; +Cc: linuxppc-dev Patrick J. Kelsey wrote: > (sorry about that last one. had a bit of trouble with a certain web based mail client...) > > Thanks for the reply, Kumar. > > That sounds encouraging. One of the things I was worried about with > scheduling differences would be a differing number of branch delay > slots between the two core versions. I'm still a bit new to the > details of the PowerPC architecture, and at this point I'm not even > sure if there are branch delay slots, although it does seem from my > reading that the 603e and 750 pipelines are the same, in which case > there would ceratinly be no worries here. FWIIW, the PowerPC architecture has hardware instruction interlocking and scheduling and doesn't require the compiler to implement the branch delay slots like, for instance, the MIPS architecture. This is much more compiler and portability friendly, but at the expense of more logic in the processor (the PowerPC is not nearly as minimalistic as the MIPS). > At this point, I'm not concerned so much about an inefficient > schedule resulting from running -mcpu=750 code on a 603e as long as > the execution is correct. > > Pat gvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 12:36 ` Jerry Van Baren @ 2006-07-27 15:30 ` Andy Fleming 2006-07-27 15:37 ` Kumar Gala 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Andy Fleming @ 2006-07-27 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jerry Van Baren; +Cc: linuxppc-dev, Patrick J. Kelsey Branch delay slots are evil, and PowerPC did not use them. 'nuff said. Pretty much any powerpc binary should work on any PowerPC system. Actually, we use a 603-compiled root file system for our e500 processors (in our lab), and don't run into any problems. This is On Jul 27, 2006, at 07:36, Jerry Van Baren wrote: > Patrick J. Kelsey wrote: >> (sorry about that last one. had a bit of trouble with a certain >> web based mail client...) >> >> Thanks for the reply, Kumar. >> >> That sounds encouraging. One of the things I was worried about with >> scheduling differences would be a differing number of branch delay >> slots between the two core versions. I'm still a bit new to the >> details of the PowerPC architecture, and at this point I'm not even >> sure if there are branch delay slots, although it does seem from my >> reading that the 603e and 750 pipelines are the same, in which case >> there would ceratinly be no worries here. > > FWIIW, the PowerPC architecture has hardware instruction interlocking > and scheduling and doesn't require the compiler to implement the > branch > delay slots like, for instance, the MIPS architecture. This is much > more compiler and portability friendly, but at the expense of more > logic > in the processor (the PowerPC is not nearly as minimalistic as the > MIPS). > >> At this point, I'm not concerned so much about an inefficient >> schedule resulting from running -mcpu=750 code on a 603e as long as >> the execution is correct. >> >> Pat > > gvb > _______________________________________________ > Linuxppc-dev mailing list > Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org > https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? 2006-07-27 15:30 ` Andy Fleming @ 2006-07-27 15:37 ` Kumar Gala 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Kumar Gala @ 2006-07-27 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andy Fleming; +Cc: linuxppc-dev, Patrick J. Kelsey On Jul 27, 2006, at 10:30 AM, Andy Fleming wrote: > Branch delay slots are evil, and PowerPC did not use them. > > 'nuff said. > > Pretty much any powerpc binary should work on any PowerPC system. > Actually, we use a 603-compiled root file system for our e500 > processors (in our lab), and don't run into any problems. This is Let's be clear, that is done by emulating the floating point instructions in the kernel. (And there are a few user space integer/ control instructions that e500 doesn't implement, but your rarely run into them). - k > On Jul 27, 2006, at 07:36, Jerry Van Baren wrote: > >> Patrick J. Kelsey wrote: >>> (sorry about that last one. had a bit of trouble with a certain >>> web based mail client...) >>> >>> Thanks for the reply, Kumar. >>> >>> That sounds encouraging. One of the things I was worried about with >>> scheduling differences would be a differing number of branch delay >>> slots between the two core versions. I'm still a bit new to the >>> details of the PowerPC architecture, and at this point I'm not even >>> sure if there are branch delay slots, although it does seem from my >>> reading that the 603e and 750 pipelines are the same, in which case >>> there would ceratinly be no worries here. >> >> FWIIW, the PowerPC architecture has hardware instruction interlocking >> and scheduling and doesn't require the compiler to implement the >> branch >> delay slots like, for instance, the MIPS architecture. This is much >> more compiler and portability friendly, but at the expense of more >> logic >> in the processor (the PowerPC is not nearly as minimalistic as the >> MIPS). >> >>> At this point, I'm not concerned so much about an inefficient >>> schedule resulting from running -mcpu=750 code on a 603e as long as >>> the execution is correct. >>> >>> Pat >> >> gvb >> _______________________________________________ >> Linuxppc-dev mailing list >> Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org >> https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Linuxppc-dev mailing list > Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org > https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-07-27 15:37 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-07-26 22:27 Can 750 user-mode binaries run on a 603e core? Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 0:04 ` Kumar Gala 2006-07-27 2:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 3:53 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 11:27 ` Matt Sealey 2006-07-27 12:18 ` Patrick J. Kelsey 2006-07-27 12:36 ` Jerry Van Baren 2006-07-27 15:30 ` Andy Fleming 2006-07-27 15:37 ` Kumar Gala
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