debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavista devrocket

debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavista devrocket

[Wade Maxfield]

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  I want to debug a ppc custom boot loader with Montavista (since we spent
the money on it) under the Xilinx fx60.

  I've been able to get the kernel to debug under MontaVista.  However,
since the hardware engineers have given up on DDR ram (they could not get it
to work reliably and will be dropping it from the next release), I don't
think I can use Linux for now.   Unfortunately, this decision is not
changeable.  When a hardware engineer is embarrassed, the results are not
good for software engineers.

I don't think I've got enough static ram to host a PPC linux kernel and
applications (we only have 8 meg).  We will have 16 meg on the next release,
I expect.  Is that enough for simple apps and linux under PPC???  I need
some guidance here, as I don't have enough PPC experience.

  Fortunately, we got the ppc running and can manage the hardware using
Xilkernel and Xilnet (lwIP maybe later).

  I've done numerous Google searches, and searches on MontaVista support
page.  They are specific to Linux.

  Has anyone debugged a custom boot loader with MontaVista and Abatron?  How
do you set up the project under  eclipse (which is devrocket)?  Nothing I
see seems to match, as I need the boot vector code, and I don't know how to
tell eclipse to compile for that option.  Can I just bring over the elf
(compiled with debug under Xilinx) and the source files and start
debugging?  If so, what kind of project would I pick under devrocket?  The
more I look, the more confused I get.

   I could possibly bring up linux on an ML403 board and use gdb/ddd on
that.  if so, how would I cause the boot code to be located at the right
address?  Any howto's to read that aren't simply hand waves would be very
useful. I understand once I do it is easy, but getting it done the first
time is my problem right now.

   I've got to pull some serious asses from the fire, so I'm under a lot of
pressure.  I also know who will be blamed if I don't pull this off.

  Any help is greatly appreciated!

thanks,
wade

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RE: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavistadevrocket

[Leonid]

If you need just bootloader - use u-boot.

________________________________________
From: linuxppc-embedded-bounces+leonid=3Da-k-a.net@ozlabs.org =
[mailto:linuxppc-embedded-bounces+leonid=3Da-k-a.net@ozlabs.org] On =
Behalf Of Wade Maxfield
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM
To: ppc
Subject: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and =
Montavistadevrocket


=A0 I want to debug a ppc custom boot loader with Montavista (since we =
spent the money on it) under the Xilinx fx60.

=A0 I've been able to get the kernel to debug under MontaVista.=A0 =
However, since the hardware engineers have given up on DDR ram (they =
could not get it to work reliably and will be dropping it from the next =
release), I don't think I can use Linux for now. =A0 Unfortunately, this =
decision is not changeable.=A0 When a hardware engineer is embarrassed, =
the results are not good for software engineers.=20

I don't think I've got enough static ram to host a PPC linux kernel and =
applications (we only have 8 meg).=A0 We will have 16 meg on the next =
release, I expect.=A0 Is that enough for simple apps and linux under =
PPC???=A0 I need some guidance here, as I don't have enough PPC =
experience.=20

=A0 Fortunately, we got the ppc running and can manage the hardware =
using Xilkernel and Xilnet (lwIP maybe later).

=A0 I've done numerous Google searches, and searches on MontaVista =
support page.=A0 They are specific to Linux.=20

=A0 Has anyone debugged a custom boot loader with MontaVista and =
Abatron?=A0 How do you set up the project under=A0 eclipse (which is =
devrocket)?=A0 Nothing I see seems to match, as I need the boot vector =
code, and I don't know how to tell eclipse to compile for that =
option.=A0 Can I just bring over the elf (compiled with debug under =
Xilinx) and the source files and start debugging?=A0 If so, what kind of =
project would I pick under devrocket?=A0 The more I look, the more =
confused I get.=20

=A0=A0 I could possibly bring up linux on an ML403 board and use gdb/ddd =
on that.=A0 if so, how would I cause the boot code to be located at the =
right address?=A0 Any howto's to read that aren't simply hand waves =
would be very useful. I understand once I do it is easy, but getting it =
done the first time is my problem right now.=20

=A0=A0 I've got to pull some serious asses from the fire, so I'm under a =
lot of pressure.=A0 I also know who will be blamed if I don't pull this =
off.

=A0 Any help is greatly appreciated!

thanks,
wade

Re: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavista devrocket

[Jeff Angielski]

On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 10:11 -0600, Wade Maxfield wrote:
> 
>   I want to debug a ppc custom boot loader with Montavista (since we
> spent the money on it) under the Xilinx fx60.

Writing custom bootloaders is nontrivial.  Are you sure you really want
to do that?

And what does MV have to do with the bootloader?
> 
>   I've been able to get the kernel to debug under MontaVista.
> However, since the hardware engineers have given up on DDR ram (they
> could not get it to work reliably and will be dropping it from the
> next release), I don't think I can use Linux for now.   Unfortunately,
> this decision is not changeable.  When a hardware engineer is
> embarrassed, the results are not good for software engineers. 
> 
> I don't think I've got enough static ram to host a PPC linux kernel
> and applications (we only have 8 meg).  We will have 16 meg on the
> next release, I expect.  Is that enough for simple apps and linux
> under PPC???  I need some guidance here, as I don't have enough PPC
> experience. 

You can get Linux up and running with 16MB, and probably with the 8MB,
although as your RAM decreases the software development time will
increase exponentially.  You are going to be required to use Busybox and
uclibc on the user space side.  And you are most likely going to need to
significantly customize the Linux kernel to use memory sparingly.  It is
not really worth the effort unless you area talking about very large
numbers of units.

You never talked about how much flash you have and what kind it is.  You
will need to compress the binaries and/or run XIP.  You will need to use
a compressed filesystem.

Most of this is Embedded Linux 101, the *easy* stuff which you can find
in a bunch of books that are out there...

>   Fortunately, we got the ppc running and can manage the hardware
> using Xilkernel and Xilnet (lwIP maybe later).
> 
>   I've done numerous Google searches, and searches on MontaVista
> support page.  They are specific to Linux. 

That is because MV is a Linux vendor...  :)

>   Has anyone debugged a custom boot loader with MontaVista and
> Abatron?

What does MV have to do with *debugging* the custom bootloader?  Do you
mean the cross compiler that comes with MV?  Or just DevRocket?

You can use the Abatron to debug the bootloader code you are writing.
It is done everyday.

>   How do you set up the project under  eclipse (which is devrocket)?

Why even use eclipse?   You mentioned gdb/ddd later in the email.

>   Nothing I see seems to match, as I need the boot vector code, and I
> don't know how to tell eclipse to compile for that option.  Can I just
> bring over the elf (compiled with debug under Xilinx) and the source
> files and start debugging?  If so, what kind of project would I pick
> under devrocket?  The more I look, the more confused I get.

Sounds like you are looking for information on how to connect Eclipse to
the GDB backend of the Abatron.  This has nothing to do with the custom
bootloader per se.

Keep in mind, however, that there is a lot of code development that
needs to take place before you get to the point where you can single
step through C source code using a nice interface.
> 
>    I could possibly bring up linux on an ML403 board and use gdb/ddd
> on that.  if so, how would I cause the boot code to be located at the
> right address?  Any howto's to read that aren't simply hand waves
> would be very useful. I understand once I do it is easy, but getting
> it done the first time is my problem right now. 

Again, I would point you to uboot.  It works on many PPC variants and
contains more features than you could ever want.
> 
>    I've got to pull some serious asses from the fire, so I'm under a
> lot of pressure.  I also know who will be blamed if I don't pull this
> off.

Custom bootloader and custom hardware do not mix well with pressure and
schedules.  Especially for you since you seem to be very new to writing
bootloaders and using the embedded tools.

>   Any help is greatly appreciated!

Update the resume?  ;)  JK

Uboot is your friend.  Get it.  Learn it. Use it.

Busybox and uclibc are your friends when it comes time to write the
userspace code.

Compression will be required.  The time and place will be dependent on
your final hardware resources.


-- 
Jeff Angielski
The PTR Group

Re: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavista devrocket

[Wade Maxfield]

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   Thanks!

   I did indeed mean to say "devrocket" when I said "MontaVista"

   I went down the DDD/gdb  route using the MontaVista command line tools.
Their ppc_405-gdb connects to the abatron bdi2000 as a gdb server.  I was
able to get that to work to some extent.

    I did not ask my main question correctly enough.  Let me rephrase.

    My main question (for the MontaVista experts out there) is either

    1) In DevRocket, what kind of project do you choose to debug an
externally build .elf file?
       MontaVista support engineers had no clue.

    or

    2) How do you use DevRocket to create a cross compiled set of code
linked to a specific address.
       MontaVista support engineers also had no clue on this one.

   If either answer is no, OK.

    Now that I have the DDD/gdb/Abatron complex working, I don't think I
absolutely need the DevRocket and its nice (but slow) facilities.  It would
be nice to do the cross compile under DevRocket, but the Xilinx EDK is doing
just fine.

    I will look into uboot later, when I do another attempt at getting linux
into the system.

   I failed to mention that we have the system ace chip with a compact flash
card, and it is apparently functional.  It provides all the "flash" that we
need.  We do have some onboard flash for configuration data.

   Our project is simultaneously complex and simple.  It is complex in what
it does ( a complicated receiver based on latest DSL technology), but simple
in the household chores (linux is almost overkill, but we do need ethernet
and all that implies).

  Interesting we can get PPC linux into 16 meg.  Once that happens, I'll try
it again.

thanks,
wade


On 2/23/07, Jeff Angielski <jeff@theptrgroup.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 10:11 -0600, Wade Maxfield wrote:
> >
> >   I want to debug a ppc custom boot loader with Montavista (since we
> > spent the money on it) under the Xilinx fx60.
>
> Writing custom bootloaders is nontrivial.  Are you sure you really want
> to do that?
>
> And what does MV have to do with the bootloader?


<snip>

--
> Jeff Angielski
> The PTR Group
>
>

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RE: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavistadevrocket

[Martin, Tim]

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> 1) In DevRocket, what kind of project do you choose to debug an
> externally build .elf file?
> MontaVista support engineers had no clue.

Not sure about DevRocket specifically, but in Eclipse you would choose a C
application with external makefile.  In Eclipse 3.1 (with CDT) its specifically
called a "Standard Make C Project".  There's also something similar in the
Xilinx EDK Eclipse-based offering (called Platform Studio SDK).  The PS-SDK
defaults to using backend xmd/gdb through the FPGA JTAG port.

My personal preference is to use gdb standalone or ddd/gdb

> 2) How do you use DevRocket to create a cross compiled set of code
> linked to a specific address.
> MontaVista support engineers also had no clue on this one.

Again, not sure in DevRocket.  In general, you will want to use a custom
linker script.  You can tailor a linker script from one of your EDK projects.
To pass it into the linker (ld), use the -T option.  Another useful option is
-M to create a map file.  If you're calling the linker from gcc, remeber to
preface these options with -Wl. man ld and man gcc are your friends.

If you get really stuck, you can look at a the makefile from an example EDK
project and see what it is doing.


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RE: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and Montavistadevrocket

[Charles Krinke]

Dear Wade:
=20
Since the MontaVista engineers have no clue as to how to use their =
product, and I had the same experience, the appropriate solution is to =
abandon their product until and unless they do have a clue as to how to =
use their IDE.
=20
The route using DDD/gdb is an appropriate one and building an .elf file =
is no problem with either uboot or Linux.
=20
Another thing to watch out for with Montavista is their gdb executable =
may or may not work correctly. If this is the case, you will need to get =
a gdb from gnu.org and cross compile it. Basically, they blew it on the =
toolchain also.
=20
Charles
=20

________________________________

From: linuxppc-embedded-bounces+ckrinke=3Distor.com@ozlabs.org on behalf =
of Wade Maxfield
Sent: Sat 2/24/2007 2:40 PM
To: ppc
Subject: Re: debugging custom Xilinx boot loader with abatron and =
Montavistadevrocket


   Thanks!

   I did indeed mean to say "devrocket" when I said "MontaVista"

   I went down the DDD/gdb  route using the MontaVista command line =
tools.  Their ppc_405-gdb connects to the abatron bdi2000 as a gdb =
server.  I was able to get that to work to some extent.=20

    I did not ask my main question correctly enough.  Let me rephrase.

    My main question (for the MontaVista experts out there) is either

    1) In DevRocket, what kind of project do you choose to debug an =
externally build .elf file?=20
       MontaVista support engineers had no clue.

    or

    2) How do you use DevRocket to create a cross compiled set of code =
linked to a specific address. =20
       MontaVista support engineers also had no clue on this one.=20

   If either answer is no, OK. =20
  =20
    Now that I have the DDD/gdb/Abatron complex working, I don't think I =
absolutely need the DevRocket and its nice (but slow) facilities.  It =
would be nice to do the cross compile under DevRocket, but the Xilinx =
EDK is doing just fine.=20

    I will look into uboot later, when I do another attempt at getting =
linux into the system.

   I failed to mention that we have the system ace chip with a compact =
flash card, and it is apparently functional.  It provides all the =
"flash" that we need.  We do have some onboard flash for configuration =
data.=20

   Our project is simultaneously complex and simple.  It is complex in =
what it does ( a complicated receiver based on latest DSL technology), =
but simple in the household chores (linux is almost overkill, but we do =
need ethernet and all that implies).=20

  Interesting we can get PPC linux into 16 meg.  Once that happens, I'll =
try it again.

thanks,
wade
  =20


On 2/23/07, Jeff Angielski <jeff@theptrgroup.com> wrote:=20

	On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 10:11 -0600, Wade Maxfield wrote:=20
	>
	>   I want to debug a ppc custom boot loader with Montavista (since we
	> spent the money on it) under the Xilinx fx60.
=09
	Writing custom bootloaders is nontrivial.  Are you sure you really want
	to do that?
=09
	And what does MV have to do with the bootloader?


<snip>=20



	--
	Jeff Angielski
	The PTR Group
=09
=09