From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.ozlabs.org (lists.ozlabs.org [112.213.38.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E84ECFC52C for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 09:32:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from boromir.ozlabs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XRsSv5PM2z3bgs; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 20:32:15 +1100 (AEDT) Authentication-Results: lists.ozlabs.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=147.75.193.91 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=lists.ozlabs.org; s=201707; t=1728898335; cv=none; b=RssvFeJCZ9TOYiHWAUty7BGK5e96mLgy0BX9UhDflY1kWA4UCFaF5luZk1b5idBW6sRFXL07+GHR+sMG9UlLBVcB3cZu++EkTQtswMkEOGaG5PSutjCAwApS1OZli4AEPemzO5ge6gZey8JIh3BJjQWBh5tboLT4yIJGkPw5fj2GQhGq/C2MYvvdFsTbiYeBhupD8roEQqMj5Unz9isoZjm62ByxeaqJyiSOdecEd22AD8hqIrTOKMe8vEU/hr2+rWl2JFpY4FAQ1Hu9F7hOd39gCWEUqEs6RtP03LGuf0WS7u+K8AK5V0kSXdER114RkcylZ+BiCqWhZCciiGGPsg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=lists.ozlabs.org; s=201707; t=1728898335; c=relaxed/relaxed; bh=54OEPTCVAH3B7cz4kg6+MVY3l9aybsbg+IOAzgW/+Vo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kaMKfOJTROuD/Tp9e4S8uEcWK4z45UW4xwnm5aN9JJSms4bUQOtqbfKuQY/pYrjPCy3QlO6kf+DAiA1o9qmhUIQRHUmnY9T/l6ah20B/EKB+CCeFgAGpawYdVG52o0DPsMhQAo1Dw7JqbxHxR0Bc74P3W2OUY7QWfB2rSCSLlL4fvkZpLCGC0IzAyawfMzzlp0coVQhejWI6Nx7LqT14FKGK/wGMkZMdyzdSnqNHbt2BGuLUOIjgUUG3VwVhPa4Xb2Eo+cT1UCEG9r2hZMBd/yEkUmSdURcFiiHjIFKPCkQHyG9nN53Kx/pLRajdMQVPOjPMbI2ildQpRhCOXH43vA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; lists.ozlabs.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20201202 header.b=M6Zq3N3P; dkim-atps=neutral; spf=pass (client-ip=147.75.193.91; helo=nyc.source.kernel.org; envelope-from=kvalo@kernel.org; receiver=lists.ozlabs.org) smtp.mailfrom=kernel.org Authentication-Results: lists.ozlabs.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=kernel.org Authentication-Results: lists.ozlabs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20201202 header.b=M6Zq3N3P; dkim-atps=neutral Authentication-Results: lists.ozlabs.org; spf=pass (sender SPF authorized) smtp.mailfrom=kernel.org (client-ip=147.75.193.91; helo=nyc.source.kernel.org; envelope-from=kvalo@kernel.org; receiver=lists.ozlabs.org) Received: from nyc.source.kernel.org (nyc.source.kernel.org [147.75.193.91]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lists.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XRsSt43c5z2ywq for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 20:32:14 +1100 (AEDT) Received: from smtp.kernel.org (transwarp.subspace.kernel.org [100.75.92.58]) by nyc.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEB4A415FF; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 09:32:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 01007C4CEC3; Mon, 14 Oct 2024 09:32:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1728898330; bh=H6iAE2LegkHNp+32/yt3whqw8Zq05OwWueCyBd7K+Hw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=M6Zq3N3PCiStt2G83cEgWx8o4bKzMfBezq8TBjf4oGBUTNEwompWn+LQ/C+ofFioi y7WQ13MM0GVVi0W3B6Hym4d+I3V5V8ZBR2kr+f4jNWmP8gmCgbg/zh815ABruto0MV VmL6/GEUM7HCmgVVgArGynSv8rRhxFCFyrFyEKYc6rMQjbUSA/zvCZ9t3rmqNOFYve 1HjWL/E+cqCRztuiQXTISR5Dlhj3NfdkZ4qW+GeNqOuaVyTHPMP2oAdjT5MUpJoCC9 EWbTAkigiQZvikWPgvJrMC8qDRSBC/tAEfk22ek16SHNc6FehtMIBFD5/z1eVv1xOo zUixQub5fHfuA== From: Kalle Valo To: Philipp Hortmann Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "David S . Miller" , Alexandre Belloni , Claudiu Beznea , Geert Uytterhoeven , Geoff Levand , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Jakub Kicinski , Jeff Johnson , Johannes Berg , Larry Finger , Nicolas Ferre , Pavel Machek , Stanislaw Gruszka , Gregory Greenman , linuxppc-dev , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-staging@lists.linux.dev, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann , Stefan Lippers-Hollmann Subject: Re: [RFC] ipw2100 ipw2200 ps3_gelic rtl8712 --- Are we ready for wext cleanup? References: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 12:32:04 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Philipp Hortmann's message of "Sun, 13 Oct 2024 22:28:48 +0200") Message-ID: <87iktv58tn.fsf@kernel.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) X-Mailing-List: linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , , List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Philipp Hortmann writes: > origin of this question was the following patch series from Arnd Bergmann > [PATCH 00/10] Remove obsolete and orphaned wifi drivers > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/20231023131953.2876682-1-arnd@kerne= l.org/ > > Here the remaining files that use iw_handler_def: > drivers/net/ethernet/toshiba/ps3_gelic_wireless.c:static const struct > iw_handler_def gelic_wl_wext_handler_def =3D { > drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2100.c:static const struct > iw_handler_def ipw2100_wx_handler_def; > drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2100.c:static const struct > iw_handler_def ipw2100_wx_handler_def =3D { > drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2200.c:static const struct > iw_handler_def ipw_wx_handler_def =3D { > drivers/staging/rtl8712/os_intfs.c: pnetdev->wireless_handlers =3D > (struct iw_handler_def *) > drivers/staging/rtl8712/rtl871x_ioctl.h:extern struct iw_handler_def > r871x_handlers_def; > drivers/staging/rtl8712/rtl871x_ioctl_linux.c:struct iw_handler_def > r871x_handlers_def =3D { > > > In this Email Greg writes over rtl8192e: > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/2024100810-payback-suds-8c15@gregkh/ > "... > No staging driver should ever get in the way of api changes elsewhere in > the kernel, that's one of the rules of this part of the tree. So from > my opinion, it's fine to delete it now. It can always come back in a > new way later on. > ..." > > So it should not be an issue to remove rtl8712. > > Stefan Lippers-Hollmann was one year ago still using the ipw2200. > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/20231024014302.0a0b79b0@mir/ > > Here my opinion why I think we should reconsider this: > > I really like to use old hardware. One of my computers is from trash > and the other one is bought for 50=E2=82=AC three years ago. But non of my > hardware is from before 2012. Do we as a community really need to > support hardware from 2003 in kernel 6.13 for WLAN that evolved so > rapidly? I do not think so. > > People around me are complaining that the 2,4GHz WLAN is difficult to > use because so many devices are using it. Such slow devices consume a > lot of time to send and receive the data and block therefore other > devices. > > The longterm kernels will still support this hardware for years. > > Please explain to our very high value resources (Maintainers, > Developers with wext and mac80211 expierience) that you cannot find > any other solution that is within technical possibility and budget > (USB WLAN Stick or exchange of WLAN module) and that they need to > invest their time for maintenance. > Here the example of invested time from Johannes Berg: > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20241007213525.8b2d52b60531.I6a27aaf30bded9a0= 977f07f47fba2bd31a3b3330@changeid/ > > I cannot ask the Linux kernel community to support my test hardware > just because I bought it some time ago. Rather, I have to show that I > use it for private or business purposes on a regular basis and that I > cannot easily change. > > Using this hardware is security wise not state of the art as WPA3 is > not supported. We put so much effort into security. Why not here? I didn't quite get what you are saying here, are you proposing that we should remove ancient drivers faster? --=20 https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-wireless/list/ https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation/submittingpatc= hes