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From: "David Luyer" <david@luyer.net>
To: "'Alan Cox'" <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	"'Daniel Phillips'" <phillips@arcor.de>
Cc: "'Jamie Lokier'" <jamie@shareable.org>,
	"'Downing, Thomas'" <Thomas.Downing@ipc.com>,
	"'Linux Kernel Mailing List'" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: Flame Linus to a crisp!
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 23:01:21 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <089201c30b2a$c58c3ce0$46943ecb@pacific.net.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1051224351.4005.87.camel@dhcp22.swansea.linux.org.uk>

> On Iau, 2003-04-24 at 22:42, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > A more mundane goal would be to prevent the 3D driver from 
> > letting you see through polygons that are supposed to be
> > opaque.
> 
> In the MUD world we solved that by not telling anyone about 
> objects they can't see. 

The problem is not solved in the MUD world particularly well.

Sure, you can not transmit the location of other players, but
the client software (eg. zmud) can still give the client an
advantage over the "innocent telnet using client", by doing
things like keeping a map and tracking your current location
(and even using point-and-click to go to any previously seen
location).

Discworld as an example had an area with left,right,back,forward
directions which zmud was later enhanced to handle.  So to
make things a little harder they changed descriptions a little
when "anomolies" appeared so automated "return to previous
point" procedures would walk through the anomoly and get warped
into a reality with hard to determine rules (directions
left,right,forward,back, but if you go left four times you don't
end up where you started).

And there are other problems from the MUD world that have
parallels in 3D online gaming... triggers, for example.

Even colourization of MUD text by something like TF is
equivalent to 3D drivers doing some kind of enhancement
on distant objects (showing you the distant player movement
that would otherwise be barely percievable).

I'm not holding my breath for the first MUD to use DRM to
ensure the end-user is directly connected to a keyboard
with no triggers, mapping, colourization, etc in between
though :-)

Even if such a setup was possible, and say the keyboard was
even a "signed device", you could still setup a mechanical
device to override the keys for you and some OCR software on
a second PC reading the screen's display and displaying the
colourized version, processing triggers, generating maps,
etc.  There is sufficient technology available these days
that DRM would be insufficient to even protect a MUD from
the most basic forms of cheating.

David.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-04-25 12:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-04-24 20:39 Flame Linus to a crisp! Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 21:28 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:42   ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 22:45     ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 23:59       ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-25  9:07         ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-25 13:01       ` David Luyer [this message]
2003-04-25  8:13   ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-25 19:12     ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25 20:56       ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-25 21:50         ` Jamie Lokier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-04-28  9:30 Martin_List-Petersen
2003-04-25 12:57 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-25 12:41 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-25 12:36 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-27  7:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-04-25 12:23 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 22:10 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 22:36 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:55 Daniel Callahan
2003-04-24 12:36 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 14:12 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 22:48   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 12:29   ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2003-04-25 15:45     ` Timothy Miller
     [not found] <20030424041004$113a@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-04-24  4:53 ` Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
2003-04-24  3:59 Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24  4:40 ` Joel Jaeggli
2003-04-24  4:43 ` Greg KH
2003-04-24  4:57   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24  5:02     ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24  5:39       ` viro
2003-04-24  5:56         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-24  8:46           ` Dax Kelson
2003-04-24  9:46         ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24 10:54       ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-04-25  0:07         ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24  4:54 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-04-24  5:16   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 13:08     ` Shawn
2003-04-24 20:12       ` Kenneth Johansson
2003-04-24 17:32     ` Andreas Boman
2003-04-24 17:41       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24 19:39         ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-26 17:05       ` Riley Williams
2003-04-24  5:02 ` Mark J Roberts
2003-04-24  5:13   ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24  5:15 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24  5:43   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24  6:15     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24  7:44       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24  8:03         ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-25  1:16           ` Jan Harkes
2003-04-25  1:35             ` Stan Bubrouski
2003-04-24  8:16         ` John Bradford
2003-04-24  8:31           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24  8:59             ` John Bradford
2003-04-24  8:50           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 14:45           ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 15:00             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-04-24 19:03             ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 19:32               ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 19:22                 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 20:19                   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 20:35                   ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 19:39                 ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-24 21:02                   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 18:58         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 21:08           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:37             ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 21:30               ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:38                 ` John Bradford
2003-04-25  3:20                   ` Shawn
2003-04-25  5:47                     ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25  7:02                       ` John Bradford
2003-04-25  8:52                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-25 14:03                   ` Mike Dresser
2003-04-24 21:42                 ` Russell King
2003-04-25  6:08               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-25 11:46                 ` Antonio Vargas
2003-04-24 10:57     ` Giuliano Pochini
2003-04-24 22:51     ` Adrian Bunk
2003-04-24  7:55 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24  8:37 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24  8:59   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 12:52     ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24 15:37     ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 18:35       ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 20:46         ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 20:50           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:03             ` Chris Adams
2003-04-24 22:29         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-24 22:41           ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 22:54             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25  0:26               ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 22:41           ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 14:21           ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 16:13             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-24 19:23       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 19:50         ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-24  8:57 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-04-24  9:19   ` Russell King
2003-04-24 11:38     ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-04-24 17:46       ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-04-24 14:59   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 12:39 ` Mark Mielke
2003-04-24 15:53 ` Elladan
2003-04-24 18:31 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 23:15   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 11:28     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-04-27  1:31       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-27  1:59         ` David Wagner
2003-04-25 14:37     ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-25 15:17       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-25 17:37       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-26 21:59         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-26 13:00     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-26 18:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-26 18:41         ` viro
2003-04-26 18:48           ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-28 14:20           ` John Stoffel
2003-04-26 19:23         ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-28 10:35         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-04-28 12:12           ` Jörn Engel
2003-04-28 14:01           ` Zack Gilburd
2003-04-28 14:30             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-26 18:21   ` Rik van Riel
2003-04-26 23:34     ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-27  3:59     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-24 20:16 ` Nils Holland

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