Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Len Brown]

this is probably best addressed to acpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
where people over-ride their BIOS ACPI DSDT all the time.

However, there is a reason that it isn't push-button, and that is
because we don't want to encourage people to do it.  We'd rather fix
Linux where Linux is broken, or get the OEMs to fix their BIOS where the
BIOS is broken.

thanks,
-Len


On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 14:39, john moser wrote:
> Please CC me all replies.
> 
> 
> http://abaababa.ouvaton.org/presario/
> 
> Please note that a recompiled and fixed DSDT table exists for the
> Compaq Presario
> 2100 series.  I would like to be able to simply point my kernel at
> this file at
> compile time from a configuration menu, and compile it in to the
> kernel.  I can
> probably find the DSDT load code myself, but compiling external data
> into a
> program and accessing it is something foreign to me (IDE's like
> Borland C++ Builder
> did it for you and so I never was able to learn how with GCC).
> 
> This may be useful in the future for broken ACPI.  Could someone
> please make a
> quick patch to allow the path of a DSDT table to be defined so that it
> may be
> compiled into the kernel and override the ACPI DSDT table in the
> BIOS?  I'll
> peek around, but ACPI and this sort of programming isn't my strong
> point.
> 
> If anyone is familiar with this area and would be willing to write up
> a patch,
> please CC me so I don't spend days/weeks trying to figure out how the
> heck to
> do this ;)
> 
> 
> 
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Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Joseph Pingenot]

>From Len Brown on Sunday, 01 February, 2004:
>this is probably best addressed to acpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>where people over-ride their BIOS ACPI DSDT all the time.
>However, there is a reason that it isn't push-button, and that is
>because we don't want to encourage people to do it.  We'd rather fix
>Linux where Linux is broken, or get the OEMs to fix their BIOS where the
>BIOS is broken.

How does one get a hold of a fixed DSDT?  I've seen postings about
  how to apply them, but how do they get released?  I'd *love* for
  Dell to release a fix for my Inspiron 8600 (haven't found a fixed
  DSDT), or to just get a hold of one.

*sigh*  When will the vendors support Linux?!

-Joseph

RE: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Brown, Len]

> From Brown, Len on Sunday, 01 February, 2004:
> >The vendor should supply a correct DSDT with their BIOS.
> >In the case of Dell, you might inquire here: http://linux.dell.com/
> >For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the 
> DSDT link
> >here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  
> 
> Hmm.  Do vendors generally release these?  I know Dell's very shaky on
>   the Linux support front, at least for desktop/laptop.
> Also, how do non-vendor supplied ones get made?  Seems like something
>   you need NDA'ed docs for.

Non-vendor supplied DSDTs are created by end-users who bought machines
that don't work.  Per the DSDT link above, one can extract,
dis-assemble, modify a DSDT -- and tell Linux to use your copy instead
of the version burned into PROM.

While detailed hardware docs would be required to understand all the
code, that is not necessary to fix the majority of DSDT errors that
confuse Linux.  The common errors generally result from simple
programming blunders that are not caught at build-time by the partciular
AML compiler the vendor uses, nor at run-time by the particular OS the
vendor uses for validation.

When vendors use an improved AML compiler (such as the one freely
available from Intel;-), and test their platforms on ACPI-enabled Linux,
these problems generally go away and so does the topic of fixing broken
DSDTs.

Indeed, I'm not confident that fixing DSDTs for vendors is always a good
idea -- particularly if the vendors don't take the feedback.  I'd rather
see Linux users able to vote with their dollars to support vendors that
best support Linux.

That said, if you're stuck with a box that needs a DSDT fix -- I
encourage you to work with the vendor to get the DSDT fixed.  Yes, I've
seen handing them the fix on a silver platter work just fine;-)
However, as I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, note that I can't
give anybody permission to _publish_ modified vendor firmware -- only
the vendor can do that. 

Cheers,
-Len

RE: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Brown, Len]

The vendor should supply a correct DSDT with their BIOS.
In the case of Dell, you might inquire here: http://linux.dell.com/

For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the DSDT link
here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  

Cheers,
-Len




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Pingenot [mailto:trelane@digitasaru.net] 
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 1:05 AM
> To: Brown, Len
> Cc: bluefoxicy@linux.net; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> From Len Brown on Sunday, 01 February, 2004:
> >this is probably best addressed to acpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >where people over-ride their BIOS ACPI DSDT all the time.
> >However, there is a reason that it isn't push-button, and that is
> >because we don't want to encourage people to do it.  We'd rather fix
> >Linux where Linux is broken, or get the OEMs to fix their 
> BIOS where the
> >BIOS is broken.
> 
> How does one get a hold of a fixed DSDT?  I've seen postings about
>   how to apply them, but how do they get released?  I'd *love* for
>   Dell to release a fix for my Inspiron 8600 (haven't found a fixed
>   DSDT), or to just get a hold of one.
> 
> *sigh*  When will the vendors support Linux?!
> 
> -Joseph
> 

Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Matt Domsch]

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 11:33:44PM -0500, Brown, Len wrote:
> For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the DSDT link
> here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  

Len, this is a really good idea making this available.  May I suggest
you also have people provide patches between the original and their
modified versions, so it's easy for everyone to see what was changed?

Thanks,
Matt (who's not looking forward to pulling 20 systems from the
hardware library and flashing BIOSses to pull the original DSDT to
compare with what users suggest need to be fixed for each one before
he can file bug reports with the BIOS writers...)

-- 
Matt Domsch
Sr. Software Engineer, Lead Engineer
Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux
Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com

Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the DSDT link
> > here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  
> 
> Len, this is a really good idea making this available.  May I suggest
> you also have people provide patches between the original and their
> modified versions, so it's easy for everyone to see what was
> changed?

Patches are important because some DSDTs change with memory sizes,
too, so its safer to patch than to replace.
								Pavel

-- 
When do you have a heart between your knees?
[Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?]

Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Joseph Pingenot]

>From Pavel Machek on Tuesday, 17 February, 2004:
>Hi!
>> > For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the DSDT link
>> > here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  
>> Len, this is a really good idea making this available.  May I suggest
>> you also have people provide patches between the original and their
>> modified versions, so it's easy for everyone to see what was
>> changed?
>Patches are important because some DSDTs change with memory sizes,
>too, so its safer to patch than to replace.

I'm getting ready to contact Dell (after I work through my work and
  homework backlog.  Ugh).
Firt off, how do I determine what all is broken in the DSDT/BIOS?  I know
  that the kernel refuses to use the APIC due to a 'broken BIOS'
  (Feb 16 14:38:31 petrus Dell Inspiron with broken BIOS detected. Refusing to enable the local APIC.)
  (Anyone know what I need to ask Dell to do to fix this?)  I also know
  that the fan isn't reported in ACPI, and that I've not gotten it to
  suspend to RAM successfully (I've not gotten it to suspend to disk
  successfully either, but I think that's due to software and/or my
  issues, not the BIOS/DSDT).
Also, any pointers on *how* to ask?  The above should cover the what;
  who's successfully gotten a vendor (esp. Dell) to issue a fixed BIOS
  and/or DSDT, and how did you go about it?
Thanks!

-Joseph

-- 
Joseph===============================================trelane@digitasaru.net
      Graduate Student in Physics, Freelance Free Software Developer

Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Joseph Pingenot]

>From Brown, Len on Sunday, 01 February, 2004:
>The vendor should supply a correct DSDT with their BIOS.
>In the case of Dell, you might inquire here: http://linux.dell.com/
>For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the DSDT link
>here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  

Hmm.  Do vendors generally release these?  I know Dell's very shaky on
  the Linux support front, at least for desktop/laptop.
Also, how do non-vendor supplied ones get made?  Seems like something
  you need NDA'ed docs for.

-Joseph

>> >this is probably best addressed to acpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >where people over-ride their BIOS ACPI DSDT all the time.
>> >However, there is a reason that it isn't push-button, and that is
>> >because we don't want to encourage people to do it.  We'd rather fix
>> >Linux where Linux is broken, or get the OEMs to fix their 
>> BIOS where the
>> >BIOS is broken.
>> How does one get a hold of a fixed DSDT?  I've seen postings about
>>   how to apply them, but how do they get released?  I'd *love* for
>>   Dell to release a fix for my Inspiron 8600 (haven't found a fixed
>>   DSDT), or to just get a hold of one.
>> *sigh*  When will the vendors support Linux?!

Re: ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[Stian Jordet]

tir, 03.02.2004 kl. 02.03 skrev Joseph Pingenot:
> From Brown, Len on Sunday, 01 February, 2004:
> >The vendor should supply a correct DSDT with their BIOS.
> >In the case of Dell, you might inquire here: http://linux.dell.com/
> >For non-vendor supplied solutions, you might also follow the DSDT link
> >here: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/  
> 
> Hmm.  Do vendors generally release these?  I know Dell's very shaky on
>   the Linux support front, at least for desktop/laptop.
> Also, how do non-vendor supplied ones get made?  Seems like something
>   you need NDA'ed docs for.
> 
> -Joseph

I guess it varies. Rioworks (http://www.rioworks.com) made a new BIOS
for me, after I (with very, very good help from Len Brown) told them
their DSDT was broken. :)

Best regards,
Stian

ACPI -- Workaround for broken DSDT

[john moser]

Please CC me all replies.


http://abaababa.ouvaton.org/presario/

Please note that a recompiled and fixed DSDT table exists for the Compaq Presario
2100 series.  I would like to be able to simply point my kernel at this file at
compile time from a configuration menu, and compile it in to the kernel.  I can
probably find the DSDT load code myself, but compiling external data into a
program and accessing it is something foreign to me (IDE's like Borland C++ Builder
did it for you and so I never was able to learn how with GCC).

This may be useful in the future for broken ACPI.  Could someone please make a
quick patch to allow the path of a DSDT table to be defined so that it may be
compiled into the kernel and override the ACPI DSDT table in the BIOS?  I'll
peek around, but ACPI and this sort of programming isn't my strong point.

If anyone is familiar with this area and would be willing to write up a patch,
please CC me so I don't spend days/weeks trying to figure out how the heck to
do this ;)



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