Possible GPL Violation

Possible GPL Violation

[Carlos Silva]

Hi,
the company that i work for is going to buy a pair of Panda
Gatedefenders 8200 that are linux based. To start, they never told us or
mention on their site (as far as i searched) the use of linux in their
product. Another thing is that they don't give us root access nor any
other type of local access to the box besides the http page the
appliance have to be managed. The thing is that i asked for the kernel
source they use in the system and they said they can't give it since
they have some proprietary code in it, as far as i understood.
I really don't know the proper way to report a GPL violation so i
thought this was a good place.
If there is any question please feel free to ask, i'll do my best to
answer it.

Re: Possible GPL Violation

[Måns Rullgård]

Carlos Silva <r3pek@r3pek.homelinux.org> writes:

> Hi,
> the company that i work for is going to buy a pair of Panda
> Gatedefenders 8200 that are linux based. To start, they never told us or
> mention on their site (as far as i searched) the use of linux in their
> product. Another thing is that they don't give us root access nor any
> other type of local access to the box besides the http page the
> appliance have to be managed.

There's no requirement to give you full access to the machine.  If you
don't like that, don't buy it.

> The thing is that i asked for the kernel source they use in the
> system and they said they can't give it since they have some
> proprietary code in it, as far as i understood.

If they use some modules of their own writing, the general agreement
seems to be that they don't need to release the source code to those.
They should still give you the kernel source they used, along with any
patches they may have applied.

> I really don't know the proper way to report a GPL violation so i
> thought this was a good place.  If there is any question please feel
> free to ask, i'll do my best to answer it.

I'm having some problems myself with an STB manufacturer (Amino).  The
STB is running a Busybox/Montavista Linux of some kind, and I need to
make some changes.  To do this, they tell me I need the SDK, which is
only available under NDA, and then only after purchasing a support
contract for an ungodly number of dollars.  Somehow, I get the feeling
they are on thin ice here.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com

Re: Possible GPL Violation

[Carlos Silva]

On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 15:50 +0200, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> Carlos Silva <r3pek@r3pek.homelinux.org> writes:
> 
> > Hi,
> > the company that i work for is going to buy a pair of Panda
> > Gatedefenders 8200 that are linux based. To start, they never told us or
> > mention on their site (as far as i searched) the use of linux in their
> > product. Another thing is that they don't give us root access nor any
> > other type of local access to the box besides the http page the
> > appliance have to be managed.
> 
> There's no requirement to give you full access to the machine.  If you
> don't like that, don't buy it.
I know this :)

> 
> > The thing is that i asked for the kernel source they use in the
> > system and they said they can't give it since they have some
> > proprietary code in it, as far as i understood.
> 
> If they use some modules of their own writing, the general agreement
> seems to be that they don't need to release the source code to those.
> They should still give you the kernel source they used, along with any
> patches they may have applied.
I know this too. The thing is that they don't give me anything. They
only sell me the appliance, nothing more. :(

> 
> > I really don't know the proper way to report a GPL violation so i
> > thought this was a good place.  If there is any question please feel
> > free to ask, i'll do my best to answer it.
> 
> I'm having some problems myself with an STB manufacturer (Amino).  The
> STB is running a Busybox/Montavista Linux of some kind, and I need to
> make some changes.  To do this, they tell me I need the SDK, which is
> only available under NDA, and then only after purchasing a support
> contract for an ungodly number of dollars.  Somehow, I get the feeling
> they are on thin ice here.
> 
Panda uses debian in this appliance ;)

Re: Possible GPL Violation

[Måns Rullgård]

Carlos Silva <r3pek@r3pek.homelinux.org> writes:

>> > The thing is that i asked for the kernel source they use in the
>> > system and they said they can't give it since they have some
>> > proprietary code in it, as far as i understood.
>> 
>> If they use some modules of their own writing, the general agreement
>> seems to be that they don't need to release the source code to those.
>> They should still give you the kernel source they used, along with any
>> patches they may have applied.
>
> I know this too. The thing is that they don't give me anything. They
> only sell me the appliance, nothing more. :(

All too common.  You should begin by kindly pointing out what their
obligations are, and if they fail to comply, switch to a harsher tone,
and post your correspondence in a public place.  I'm not certain that
lkml is the proper place for this, but it may be the only place we
have.  If all else fails, slashdot them.  That will probably also
fail, but at least you can enjoy watching other people call them
names.

>> > I really don't know the proper way to report a GPL violation so i
>> > thought this was a good place.  If there is any question please feel
>> > free to ask, i'll do my best to answer it.
>> 
>> I'm having some problems myself with an STB manufacturer (Amino).  The
>> STB is running a Busybox/Montavista Linux of some kind, and I need to
>> make some changes.  To do this, they tell me I need the SDK, which is
>> only available under NDA, and then only after purchasing a support
>> contract for an ungodly number of dollars.  Somehow, I get the feeling
>> they are on thin ice here.
>> 
> Panda uses debian in this appliance ;)

That's a bit ironic, considering that Debian are among those that take
the "freedom" thing most seriously.  Maybe you can get some ideas from
the debian-legal list.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com

Re: Possible GPL Violation

[Carlos Silva]

On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 16:53 +0200, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> Carlos Silva <r3pek@r3pek.homelinux.org> writes:
> 
> >> > The thing is that i asked for the kernel source they use in the
> >> > system and they said they can't give it since they have some
> >> > proprietary code in it, as far as i understood.
> >> 
> >> If they use some modules of their own writing, the general agreement
> >> seems to be that they don't need to release the source code to those.
> >> They should still give you the kernel source they used, along with any
> >> patches they may have applied.
> >
> > I know this too. The thing is that they don't give me anything. They
> > only sell me the appliance, nothing more. :(
> 
> All too common.  You should begin by kindly pointing out what their
> obligations are, and if they fail to comply, switch to a harsher tone,
> and post your correspondence in a public place.  I'm not certain that
> lkml is the proper place for this, but it may be the only place we
> have.  If all else fails, slashdot them.  That will probably also
> fail, but at least you can enjoy watching other people call them
> names.
I don't think that's the way to go... i aslready asked them in kindly
and harsher tone, so it's a dead end here.

> 
> >> > I really don't know the proper way to report a GPL violation so i
> >> > thought this was a good place.  If there is any question please feel
> >> > free to ask, i'll do my best to answer it.
> >> 
> >> I'm having some problems myself with an STB manufacturer (Amino).  The
> >> STB is running a Busybox/Montavista Linux of some kind, and I need to
> >> make some changes.  To do this, they tell me I need the SDK, which is
> >> only available under NDA, and then only after purchasing a support
> >> contract for an ungodly number of dollars.  Somehow, I get the feeling
> >> they are on thin ice here.
> >> 
> > Panda uses debian in this appliance ;)
> 
> That's a bit ironic, considering that Debian are among those tappreciatedhat take
> the "freedom" thing most seriously.  Maybe you can get some ideas from
> the debian-legal list.
> 
Probably they can point me to somewhere, but if someone in here knows
what should be done, i'll be appreciated.

Re: Possible GPL Violation

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 16:19:42 +0100, Carlos Silva wrote:

>> That's a bit ironic, considering that Debian are among those tappreciatedhat take
>> the "freedom" thing most seriously.  Maybe you can get some ideas from
>> the debian-legal list.
>> 
> Probably they can point me to somewhere, but if someone in here knows
> what should be done, i'll be appreciated.

You probably want this:

http://www.gpl-violations.org/

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Hic manebimus optime

possible GPL violation

[Warren Turkal]

I have not been able to find a GPL notice on the website for the following 
appliance that uses Linux.

http://www.bluecatnetworks.com/products/meridius/

I don't have any code in the kernel, but I thought you all may want to know. 
By the way, I am not subscribed. Please CC if you want any more info.

wt
-- 
Warren Turkal
President, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org